A warning regarding toxic dating/relationship advice

[Globalcollective]

Recently I have seen an ever increasing interest in ideas such as red pill, black pill, MGTOW, extreme feminism etc. Its just shocking to see so much energy being consumed into these negative low conscious ideas. I guess I got lucky because there wasn't to much on relationships on the internet when I was growing up but pick up. I can say from experience not only are these ideas very damaging to your own personal growth then do not hold any truth if you go out there and meet people. Especially when you start to grow spiritually you see just how ridiculous some of these ideas are. 

[Preety_India]

Agreed 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[outlandish]

+1 @Globalcollective there is a lot of poisonous shit out there. There is probably a time and a place for these things, when someone needs the self-empowerment that these can bring, but I think all too often this stuff gets taken too far, too literally, and becomes self-defeating and counter productive.

[Globalcollective]

@outlandish Yes there defo is a time and a place for them, if only people could see the other side and realise just how much of a waste of energy it is. 

[Globalcollective]

If anyone wants me to go into more detail why this is not worth your time I will happily

[GGG]

25 minutes ago, Globalcollective said:

If anyone wants me to go into more detail why this is not worth your time I will happily

@Globalcollective Yes please. I am curious.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Agreed, such a waste of time idealizing the "dating market" and all these generalizations that will probably mean nothing for your own life. 

[Globalcollective]

19 hours ago, GGG said:

@Globalcollective Yes please. I am curious.

@GGG First off lot of the philosophies like red pill, mgtow etc are not actually grounded in actual truth, its more a representation of the possible negative situations you COULD find yourself in. There are so many variables and they are just pointing out the most negative ones. They make it seem like this will be the case for everyone.  Its like getting a certain illness and then saying everyone will get the illness also, instead its better to look at how you developed the illness in the first place and look to cure it. From my personal experience it seems if you attract shallow people who will dump you for someone who has supposed superior genetics then its more a deeper aspect of your shadow you are somehow manifesting. You have to be so carful even reading these ideas because if you start to even believe it slightly you might start manifesting it subconsciously. 

Now the biggest reason why this is such a waste of time is once you start having mystical experiences you really just how limiting it is trying to find your source of happiness from things like relationships and sex, that's not to say they are not great and worth pursuing its just they are not even close to comparing to the greatest joys in life. Its really like complaining about spilt milk. 

Personally I have had great relationships with women and they have been nothing but honest, humble and consciously growing and its allowed me to also grow. When I was younger I was so baffled as to why they wouldn't act like how red pill or MGTOW would. Once you start to grown spiritually you will see through this and laugh about it. Just don't fall into its traps. 

[Roy]

I was gonna make a post about this. I'm amazed how many people on this forum are arguing and espousing these low consciousness behavior and attitudes, especially considering these are people that presumably follow Leo and should be integrating what he's teaching. They are completely enveloped in the duality of male vs female, which is just such a simple and stupid thing to be stressing about. We literally need each other in the world. Both are just stuck in their own perspective and won't even consider peaking over their trench, let alone visiting the other side.

People are just at different stages of their personal development journey though. We have to learn to accept and meet them where they're at and be mindful when we try to help them grow through and above those ways of thinking. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Roy

[wk197]

1 hour ago, Globalcollective said:

@GGG First off lot of the philosophies like red pill, mgtow etc are not actually grounded in actual truth, its more a representation of the possible negative situations you COULD find yourself in. There are so many variables and they are just pointing out the most negative ones. They make it seem like this will be the case for everyone.  Its like getting a certain illness and then saying everyone will get the illness also, instead its better to look at how you developed the illness in the first place and look to cure it. From my personal experience it seems if you attract shallow people who will dump you for someone who has supposed superior genetics then its more a deeper aspect of your shadow you are somehow manifesting. You have to be so carful even reading these ideas because if you start to even believe it slightly you might start manifesting it subconsciously. 

Now the biggest reason why this is such a waste of time is once you start having mystical experiences you really just how limiting it is trying to find your source of happiness from things like relationships and sex, that's not to say they are not great and worth pursuing its just they are not even close to comparing to the greatest joys in life. Its really like complaining about spilt milk. 

Personally I have had great relationships with women and they have been nothing but honest, humble and consciously growing and its allowed me to also grow. When I was younger I was so baffled as to why they wouldn't act like how red pill or MGTOW would. Once you start to grown spiritually you will see through this and laugh about it. Just don't fall into its traps. 

So whats better than relationships and sex then in your opinion?

Edited February 20, 2020 by wk197

[Roy]

1 hour ago, wk197 said:

So whats better than relationships and sex then in your opinion?

I hope this is strictly an exercise in the ability to ask questions and not a genuine interest.

[wk197]

39 minutes ago, Roy said:

I hope this is strictly an exercise in the ability to ask questions and not a genuine interest.

What are the other relatively accessible greater pleasures in life if not healthy relationships and intimate sex for the average guy? What would you propose to a an average guy who is interested in red pill to do instead utilizing of redpill knowledge? the redpill seems to me is just about learning what makes woman and men tick from a scientific and evo psych view and taking control of your life, preachers of the redpill are also less focused on their own looks and more on their personality which will surprise users here. I don't think the redpill is inherently misogynistic, its about self improvement too.

[Globalcollective]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

I was gonna make a post about this. I'm amazed how many people on this forum are arguing and espousing these low consciousness behavior and attitudes, especially considering these are people that presumably follow Leo and should be integrating what he's teaching. They are completely enveloped in the duality of male vs female, which is just such a simple and stupid thing to be stressing about. We literally need each other in the world. Both are just stuck in their own perspective and won't even consider peaking over their trench, let alone visiting the other side.

People are just at different stages of their personal development journey though. We have to learn to accept and meet them where they're at and be mindful when we try to help them grow through and above those ways of thinking. 

@Roy Totally agree, people are at different points on there journey and its important not to shame someone who is involved in these's ideas I guess just point out there dangers. It seems like there is a growing divide between men and women at the moment which is sad to see but like you said its the way things are and have to be accepted and not judged  

[Globalcollective]

26 minutes ago, wk197 said:

What are the other relatively accessible greater pleasures in life if not healthy relationships and intimate sex for the average guy? What would you propose to a an average guy who is interested in red pill to do instead utilizing of redpill knowledge? the redpill seems to me is just about learning what makes woman and men tick from a scientific and evo psych view and taking control of your life, preachers of the redpill are also less focused on their own looks and more on their personality which will surprise users here. I don't think the redpill is inherently misogynistic, its about self improvement too.

@wk197 Obviously they are great things and should be pursued but they are by no means the greatest pleasures in life.  As I said before mystical experiences can completely transcend normal sex and relationships they are not even in the same category. If you don't believe me research into the Jhanas and learn how to access both the 1st and 2nd Jhana. Or take some psychedelics  Reality itself is so magical and full of infinite love we have just become blind to it. 

Its just when you start having these experiences and you look back on things like red pill it just seems pointless to invest your time in it. Its like crying over spilt milk. 

So in anwser to the question invest your time in spiritual development. Red pill has some useful stuff that a man could poss use its just riddled with self bias and misogyny. Its not really about true self improvement it just uses that as a mask to hook people in. 

[Ananta]

6 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

It seems like there is a growing divide between men and women at the moment which is sad to see

@Roy

It's not all men, not at all, I have no problems with normal men, but are women not supposed to speak out against red pill mentality men? We are just supposed to be quiet, because it's where these men are right now?  ...I..don't...think...so!

Many men saying they are into pick-up are really red piller's. Pay attention to how they talk about their relationship with women. It's cold and emotionless, distant to the fact that the women they are trying to get in the sack are human beings. They are ready and willing to stereotype and objectify women constantly. 

I wrote this to someone and it applies here-

"Red pill is strongly prejudiced against women.

One day, this will probably lead men that were once kind, to actually start being violent with women, maybe even raping them. 

There are undertones of anger and hate going on in red pill communities. It's pretty scary."

So, I will speak out about it and about being stereotyped and objectified as a women, by some of these men. Our gender is inferior physically and it may get to the point where I'm afraid to walk down the road, because some man might decide to exert his manhood on me. 

Of course, as men, you aren't concerned, well as a woman I am. Especially after hearing some men on here and their mentality. The red-pillers of today, are the rapist's of tomorrow. Especially, when their pick up games no longer work.

[Roy]

@Anna1

When blatant misogyny, hate, and bias rear their heads by all means, speak out! Of course you are going to meet the most egregious offenders with more aggression and resistance, as you should.

Act more like an detached observer so you can learn and view those movements and their participants with more compassion and understanding. Most of the men (which don't actually end up raping or assaulting someone) are just confused, desperate, scared, and stuck in those ideologies because they are simply lost or coming from a place of need They didn't have any women (or strong ethical men) teach them how to value and respect the other gender properly. Or commonly they had some bad experience that caused them to recoil into those communities for safety or to get some kind of revenge identity/complex.

My point is act be careful not to apply that aggression and resistance too broadly, or you risk causing those people to double down on where they are and thus potentially stifling their growth for years longer than needed. Accept that their predicament could not entirely be their fault.

A bit of personal information here for an example; My partner is a feminist and worked as a consent educator and support worker for abused women and children (domestic and sexual) for nearly half a decade. In her experience working with women and hearing first hand stories of them going through unimaginable and nightmarish circumstances, she learned something very counter-intuitive (a concept Leo has talked about) ---

Given enough time, distance and healing from those events it's common for a lot those women that they will eventually shed their disgust and hatred for their abusers, and seek understanding and offer forgiveness to them. Why did you do this to me? What wounds did you have that made you put that pain back out in the world onto me? How can we help you heal and teach young men not to develop those kind of behaviors.

The hate won't last and will only ever protect you short term. The answer is love. Tap into that love, compassion, and understanding so you cut the learning curve for those young men.

I hope that illuminates my position somewhat.

 

 

[Roy]

17 hours ago, wk197 said:

What are the other relatively accessible greater pleasures in life if not healthy relationships and intimate sex for the average guy? What would you propose to a an average guy who is interested in red pill to do instead utilizing of redpill knowledge? the redpill seems to me is just about learning what makes woman and men tick from a scientific and evo psych view and taking control of your life, preachers of the redpill are also less focused on their own looks and more on their personality which will surprise users here. I don't think the redpill is inherently misogynistic, its about self improvement too.

@wk197 My sarcastic response was in reaction to what you asked before you added the words healthy and intimate to relationships and sex. Which changes the context quite a bit. I'll answer your question anyways though!

First off; I'd teach that average guy that Redpill "knowledge" is not a complete and holistic perspective. I won't deny it has some true realizations and scientific points on the reality of modern dating and relationship dynamics like unfair legal system towards divorce, one sided dating app statistics, etc. Once you're out of it however and you start incorporating other perspectives and looking other sides of the coin, you'll see that it's roots stem from a biased male worldview and a lot of the motivations are harbored in resentment and selfishness. I studied these movements and communities pretty hard-core just out of personal interest. I had a period of struggle and was single for a looooong time and let me tell you I was almost sucked into it. All the points and examples they bring up can be very inciting to a scientific/materialist/logical minded person (which most men are). And hit all the right triggers in your mind that get you riled and fired up that you're a victim and you have something owed to you!

At the end of the day though (you will eventually come to this in your life too) the reality is Redpill, Pick-Up, MGTOW, Incel etc. can all distill down to common qualities of juvenile intent, toxic attitudes (All Women Are Like That, Beta Male, etc), sexual deviancy, jealousy, resentment, hate, victim complex, male centered bias, and selfishness. All of which are low consciousness behaviors. Basically it comes down to the fact they want their cake and to eat it too. I also hate to have to even mention this because it's petty, but it's laughably sad that big names in those communities like RSD Tyler (Owen Cook) and Entrepreneurs In Cars (Richard Cooper) are both divorced single dads and one of them has even straight up bragged about raping someone. Are these the kinds of people that should be considered respectable and trustworthy sources of relationship advice? I'll let your internal compass calibrate that on it's own......

You are right about personal development and improvement. They can be found in those groups, but let me ask you something; If a diamond is buried in a field of shit and mud, is it really worth digging through? You'll find that those diamonds can be found plenty elsewhere, and you don't need to get covered in shit to get them.

Anyways let's talk about some other things in life that are more worthwhile than personal relationships and sex;

Community - Volunteering, contributing, and participating in a community, group, or society can be a tremendous source of lasting pleasure, happiness, fulfillment, and accomplishment.

Life Purpose - Finding out and working towards what you're here on Earth for.

Spirituality - Getting connected to your true self. Through whatever means, psychedelics, adventure, connection etc.

Family - Raising children and caring/enjoying your family. I consider this the positive side of the relationship/sex coin.

Those are just a few I could probably do more but it's probably more important you discover them yourself. There are a lot more enjoyable and important things in life than being good with women and getting your dick wet.

Once you learn to groom yourself decently well, stabilize your financial situation, and cultivate competent social skills, you'll find it's actually quite easy to get into relationships and fuck essentially whoever you want.

The best things in life don't come from easy.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Roy

[Parththakkar12]

The best we can do about this is expand our sense of Self-Love to include them.

[Arcangelo]

The cat is out of the bag.

Guys are learning.

[Globalcollective]

@Arcangelo in what sense ?