Has the word "real" lost all its meaning now?

[Mafortu]

Instant enlightenment via SKYPE for 250 dollars, ESP, Chakras, Reiki, Succubus, Dark Arts, Astrology..  etc
Whats going on with this community? Did everyone turn off their bullshit detectors? 

Where do we draw the line? Are we going to believe in werewolves and vampires now?

I get it. Reality is pure imagination and the idea of werewolves or ghosts is just as real as my parents, they are all made of the same vacuum of infinity and neither has priority above the other. 

I am aware that everything and anything is possible. When the formless births a form it can take an infinite amount of shapes. My argument does not arise from a materialistic paradigm. 

But we have to come up with a new word to differentiate these two clearly distinct qualities of the imagined.
You and I can both see the sun, but only I can see my imaginary friend Mr. Gurgles. Both the sun and Mr.Gurgles are real yet they exist on different layers of reality and I think it will be healthier for our collective consciousness to pay more attention to these layers. 

The path is full of traps, lies and deceptions. Its imperative to be both open-minded and skeptic when experiencing this dream, and I am afraid the skepticism is running low on the mystic communities. 

[Spaceofawareness]

2 hours ago, Mafortu said:

Instant enlightenment via SKYPE for 250 dollars, ESP, Chakras, Reiki, Succubus, Dark Arts, Astrology..  etc
Whats going on with this community? Did everyone turn off their bullshit detectors? 

Where do we draw the line? Are we going to believe in werewolves and vampires now?

I get it. Reality is pure imagination and the idea of werewolves or ghosts is just as real as my parents, they are all made of the same vacuum of infinity and neither has priority above the other. 

I am aware that everything and anything is possible. When the formless births a form it can take an infinite amount of shapes. My argument does not arise from a materialistic paradigm. 

But we have to come up with a new word to differentiate these two clearly distinct qualities of the imagined.
You and I can both see the sun, but only I can see my imaginary friend Mr. Gurgles. Both the sun and Mr.Gurgles are real yet they exist on different layers of reality and I think it will be healthier for our collective consciousness to pay more attention to these layers. 

The path is full of traps, lies and deceptions. Its imperative to be both open-minded and skeptic when experiencing this dream, and I am afraid the skepticism is running low on the mystic communities. 

Good to hear from someone who is on the level. You have a good point there. Some things have more of an effect on our conscious experience than others. If you walk into a wall, you get feedback from the wall telling you it is there, even if ultimately it can only be perceived because you are conscious. But, as you mentioned, there are all manner of less real things than walls, like unicorns, fairy’s etc. I can take a photo of the wall and show someone. This is a piece of direct evidence of its existence, apart from touching the wall, but when I go to take a picture of a fairy, I can’t produce the same kind of direct evidence. 

If a criminal enters my house tonight, I will feel genuine fear, but I will never feel the same fear or be worried about seeing a werewolf, because I know there is a difference somehow in the existence of these two things. One is more real than the other.

I was born one day, 35 years ago. Before then something had to exist for me to come into existence. Because we know babies are born, and have parents who are the ones who biologically create the baby. So, even before I existed, something existed. 

In the same way, when I touch this Apple, I can feel the Apple. But, for me to feel the Apple, there has to be something existing “out there” to stimulate my fingertips, and for the light to bounce off. Our senses, though they can be confused, also tell something of a semi reliable story most of the time. We know when we dream, that we sense things. But, when we wake up, we can tell we were dreaming, because there is a difference. The waking world seems more real. The difference is, the hallucination our brains normally create is constrained by the sensory information that our sense organs collect and our brains transducer into an internal world, which we confuse as being the real thing. We live in a construct, but, the construct does resemble what is really out there, if our brains are functioning correctly.

so, unless we know our brains are unreliable in some way, such as if we have some kind of psychotic condition in which our sensory perception of the outside world breaks down, we can trust that what we see is in some way, really out there. Now, on top of our senses, our mind then interprets this and adds a conceptual layer. This conceptual layer can be much more unreliable and it can be useful to question. Not to question the real things out there, but maybe to question the importance of social conventions, of traditions, etc. these things are human constructs, and are less real than the things out there. They are  a collectively nonconsensually agreed upon set of norms or standards which have spontaneously (mostly) arisen due to their tendency to produce some kind of societal stability. Examples of these are, laws, money, road rules, etc. If you don’t believe in them, there are still consequences, you may go to jail for stealing, or lose your license for driving too fast. So these are still real in some sense, but less real than the things out there like brick walls.

now we have imaginary things. Whether you believe in them or not, no external circumstance related to them can affect you. You might have a fear of werewolves, but the only affect this fear can have in you is the internally imposed fear on you. Nothing external can affect you in regards to werewolves. So this is irrational. 

Now, all of these appearances occur within your consciousness, and yet, some of these occurrences have more direct consequences than others, while some, which are the irrational ones, have only internally generated consequences.

 

the real trick is, working out which internally generated irrational beliefs you have you could discard, like ones relating to yourself and how you are constrained in some way.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Spaceofawareness
Misspell

[Prevailer]

If you experience something then it’s real.As real as God wants you to interpret it as real, that is.

[Llight]

That's the whole magic, the entire essence or worth of the imaginary paradigm, if we made a clear distinction between those too then reality would be more real and we don't want the bad to be real we want it to be meaningless. It's depression 101.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Mafortu said:

Where do we draw the line?

There is no line. That's the point.

You are not openminded enough.

[Mafortu]

@Leo Gura A man is purchasing rhino horns from the black market because he cant get wood. Another man is meditating and going to couples therapy to better his sex life.

One of them operates from high consciousness and the other is actively harming the planet with his ignorance and wishful thinking. 

There is a line, otherwise you wouldn't have made a channel about self-improvement.  

[Prevailer]

Everything is utterly meaningless without God.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Mafortu said:

A man is purchasing rhino horns from the black market because he cant get wood. Another man is meditating and going to couples therapy to better his sex life.

One of them operates from high consciousness and the other is actively harming the planet with his ignorance and wishful thinking. 

Have you tried rhino horn? Maybe it works.

[Raptorsin7]

@Mafortu You just grouped a bunch of different techniques together and dismissed them all. You are just ignorant. Do the work. Try some of those techniques and judge for yourself.

You don't progress on the path by thinking about it. You have to actually do something.

[SOUL]

All this mystical stuff has you bamboozled my friend but the imaginary story telling on this forum and in circles like this will only keep your mind spinning in circles.

Just accept things as they are and limit how much you interpret them through the conceptual mind, life is alot more simpler this way and easier to manage.

[Mafortu]

@Leo Gura ... 

@Raptorsin7 My judgement comes not out of ignorance, but from direct experience. I have plenty of relatives who are into alternative-medicine, psychics and the likes, I see what works for them and what doesn't. Scammers and psychopaths prey on the weak and the wounded, as they are vulnerable and easily manipulated.

Also why bring my progress here? You wouldn't know anything about it. If you wish to know just ask.

[Raptorsin7]

@Mafortu Lol i can tell your progress by how you're typing. You're not speaking from your direct experience, you're speaking from anecdotes of your family.

What do you know? What have you experienced from these techniques? 

How far are you on the path? Have you had an awakening? What are your practices?

[Mafortu]

@Raptorsin7 I channel my spiritual experiences with entheogens through the arts, heres a sample of some of my illustrations, I also do photography and digital works. I have had several awakening experiences that have shattered many of my materialistic viewpoints, but I definitely know that I am not enlightened as I still feel identified with my ego.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Mafortu Okay. My point was be careful about judging practices if you do not have direct experience as to their value, or lack thereof. I have done reiki and I have direct experience of it's benefits. It's a "real" practice. But you lumped Reiki in with your list of BS techniques above so I had to correct it.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

The meaning of the world "real" was always arbitrary to begin with. You just became conscious of the relativity of language. 

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Mafortu said:

Instant enlightenment via SKYPE for 250 dollars, ESP, Chakras, Reiki, Succubus, Dark Arts, Astrology..  etc
Whats going on with this community? Did everyone turn off their bullshit detectors? 

49 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

My judgement comes not out of ignorance, but from direct experience. I have plenty of relatives who are into alternative-medicine, psychics and the likes, I see what works for them and what doesn't. Scammers and psychopaths prey on the weak and the wounded, as they are vulnerable and easily manipulated.

It seemed like you originally grouped it all as "bullshit", yet then subdivided that into "bullshit" that works and "bullshit" used by scammers and psychopaths that prey on the weak and wounded. Those are two different dynamics at two different levels. For example, Turquoise-level psychics and Reiki masters that strive to help others is very different than Orange-level psychics and Reiki pretenders that want to scam people out of their money. . . You say you know the difference, yet grouped it together in your original post. 

12 hours ago, Mafortu said:

You and I can both see the sun, but only I can see my imaginary friend Mr. Gurgles. Both the sun and Mr.Gurgles are real yet they exist on different layers of reality and I think it will be healthier for our collective consciousness to pay more attention to these layers. 

You say that Mr. Gurgles is your "imaginary fried". This is a very condenscending tone, for example that is often used with people that have schizophrenia as having "an imaginary friend". My niece is a master lucid dreamer and quite often people speak to her as if this is her "imaginary friend". Being call out someone as having an "imaginary friend" is a huge judgement of ignorance that will create a massive disconnect that cannot be bridged. It can also cause a huge amount of distress to the other person, because they are being judged as not meeting a "myth of normal". (E.g. seeing the sun, rather than their "imaginary friend"). If you can't see it, that is your limitation and your contraction. You would not be able to expand and deepen your understanding. It doesn't matter if you throw in a line about "the sun and imaginary friends both being real on different layers". This is just another creation of a two-tier system of the "real real" layer and the "imagined real" layer. To me, it seems clear your "imagined real" layer is second rate relative to your "real real" layer.

Again, I think an important dynamic here is genuineness.  Someone coming from a place of genuineness is different than a scammer making up bullshit to swindle people out of their money. To me, these dynamics were very obvious in Sedona, AZ. There were many people their that were highly conscious, had abilities and had done a lot of practice and skill development. And there were others that were charlatans that saw an opportunity to trick people out of their money. 

[Girzo]

Yeah, the more esoteric the stuff is, the more scammers there will be doing it. 

One always has to do research, but even being well-trained in distinguishing genuine vs fake information there are still no guarantees that your judgment will be accurate.

Sometimes there's even no data to analyze and the only way to judge outlandish claims is to test them personally.

[remember]

13 hours ago, Mafortu said:

Where do we draw the line? Are we going to believe in werewolves and vampires now?

not in all of them. i would also say believing is a little bit to much - registering that they exist might be a good starting point.

Edited February 19, 2020 by remember

[Nahm]

14 hours ago, Mafortu said:

But we have to come up with a new word to differentiate these two clearly distinct qualities of the imagined.

‘Love’ isn’t good enough?

 

 

[Mafortu]

@Serotoninluv Yes that is what I am trying to say, I am trying to point out the lack of skepticism due to the over abundance of wishy washy esoteric practices being recommended here. I am not saying all of them are evil, but some of them really put me off, there are some people here that desperately need help and kindness and its just not right to direct them to the local voodoo doctor. 

Ignorance is harmful, babies die because some vegan parents cant differentiate between what their baby needs and what they think is good for them. This is just an example and I fully support veganism when its done right.