Overly Anxious

[Teags]

My whole life I've struggled to be social and turned down opportunitys due to fear of having panic attacks and it makes me miserable. I recently got accepted into a course at a university that I'm really interested in and I'm tempted to quit before I even start because I'm worried I'm going to have to introduce myself to everyone in the orientation! I get panic attacks when I talk to more than one person, sometimes even one person and it really is hell. 

Just to give you some background info, I'm a bit of a loner, I've never had many friends, I meditate daily and try to fuel my brain with productive mind food and I listen to at least 2-4 actualized.org podcasts a day (I'm a little obsessed). I try to healthy and exercise often. I don't like speaking about myself to people and I struggle with communication. Even writing this was very difficult for me but I would love some advice or techniques that could help get me through my university degree if anyone has been through anything similar or knows about this stuff? Any advice is appreciated

[Toby]

I don't have a solution for that. But maybe this is of some help: in a meeting with a teacher (a group setting)  he asked who had a panic attack in some way in the past. About 80-90% raised their hands. He also told about panic attacks that he had - I don't remember it exactly but I guess it was because of medicine/food and being on an airplane or something like that. So that shows that it can happen to everyone. That teacher uses particulary things like Somatic Experiencing and I guess Feldenkrais - besides being present, inquiring and pointing to awareness of course - when people with that issues show up.

[Mal]

@Teags

Hi there,

I know what I'm about to say might not land very well. Especially in this era of New Age remedies for the plethora of "conditions" that the ego thinks it has to solve before being able to live a satisfying life. 

Why don't you just embrace your anxiety? Yes this sounds crazy, as we're all here trying to get rid of "low consciousness" symptoms. But I assure you that I've helped transform people who have decided to accept this one instruction. 

Just accept it.  There's nothing you can do about it, as you have discovered already by seeing through the illusion of your controlling centre. 

If it helps to shift perspective consider taking the perspective of your fear.  By this I mean use your imagination to identify with and as your fear as if it were a child. Look at "Teags" and look at the way she is judgemental of you and how it feels that she is trying to get rid of you. 

You will soon see who the real problem is. 

Try it, you have nothing to lose. 

P.S. The mind food is just mind food, it can be a hindrance or a help.  

[Teags]

@Mal Thats a good tip! Thank you. I have recently been trying to embrace my social anxiety and it has made me a lot calmer when speaking to people except in a group situation. It seems impossible to accept it when I'm having a full blown panic attack in front of a group of people. Any suggestions ? 

[Teags]

@Mal is it resistance that causes panic attacks? 

[Teags]

@Toby interesting. I have never heard of somatic experiencing or feldenkrais.

I love how much you can learn from others on this forum 

[Mal]

@Teags

You need to work with it for a while. There is a process called "Big Mind" based off a therapy called Voice Dialogue. This is what this technique is. I would check it out and get into it because it's a very powerful way of integrating shadow voices and energies while at the same time "making subject into object" like I suggested to you before on your last thread about seeing through the illusion of the ego. 

Breathing excersise are good for a temporary fixing of anxiety attacks, I have one at the beginning of my posting history from 4 weeks ago.

I don't know what causes panic attacks, That's a little bit outside of my expertise. I have them sometimes in private, something triggers it, extremely toxic behaviours trigger me occasionally. But I imagine it's tied in with the nervous system. 

-Mal 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mal

[Mal]

7 hours ago, Teags said:

@Mal is it resistance that causes panic attacks? 

Resistance is the "ego" isn't it? But to co-operate with the ego and get it out of the way you can always identify AS resistance, speak from that voice (it has a voice and an energy) and transcend it.

There is nothing in existence you cannot make an object and transcend.  

Whatever comes up allow it, identify with it, speak from its perspective. 

Mal

[Teags]

@Mal I just had a look at the Bigmind website and I am looking forward to doing the guided meditation when I am not at work 

1 hour ago, Mal said:

Resistance is the "ego" isn't it? But to co-operate with the ego and get it out of the way you can always identify AS resistance, speak from that voice (it has a voice and an energy) and transcend it.

There is nothing in existence you cannot make an object and transcend.  

Whatever comes up allow it, identify with it, speak from its perspective. 

Mal

I will have to read some more about it and try this guided meditation to  grasp what you mean by "identifying as resistance".

[DizIzMikey]

@Teags

I'm on the same boat figuratively 

I have panic attacks when I leave the house, I feel like everyone hates me when I go out but than I realize that everything is a concept in my head

but the problem with me is that I go back n forth in my head from concept to believing everything my mind says way too often

I feel as if I need to meditate a lot more to realize that everything that my mind tells me is a concept

I am doing too much, I should be meditating more in order to break my mind to have a successful life

Because this type of work that we do in actualized.org is intense, and keeping up with real life at the same time can make it even more intense

In no way am I a professional like Leo, but I feel like I can relate to you because I'm bit of a loner myself that cannot be alone

I have a wife and 2 children, I go through torture really because I am in a toxic environment

A hateful grandfather doesn't help either....

To make you feel better I'll tell you a little about myself

I've been isolated from society for approximately six years with no friends but my wife,children and uncle

Besides going out occasionally and getting groceries..that's it

I've been different all my life so acceptance was hard to find in the area I was born in

Hope this helps you, if you need someone to talk too I am here 

 

[Teags]

@DizIzMikey thank you for sharing that about yourself. There is something comforting in knowing that you are not alone. Although I do know that there are a lot people with emotional issues, I have never actually spoken to someone with anxiety and panic attacks (well that anyone was open about anyway). Isn't it funny we meet people and have no idea what's going on inside and we hold ourselves to a standard of perceived "normal". I feel like if everyone was more open about their issues then we wouldn't feel the need to live up to a false standard. Or maybe most are "normal" and I am not. 

I am sorry to hear that you are going through torture and struggle to leave the house. Do you have any techniques to help you deal with it? My whole life I have hated myself and never realised that I did until about a couple of years ago and I have been working on it ever since.       

Thanks for listening & if you need someone to talk to as well i am here also. 

[Mal]

3 hours ago, DizIzMikey said:

@Teags

I realize that everything is a concept in my head...

but the problem with me is that I go back n forth in my head from concept to believing everything my mind says way too often...

I feel as if I need to meditate a lot more to realize that everything that my mind tells me is a concept...

 

 

Hi Mikey,

I'm sorry to hear this....

Just looking at the words you used here it seems like you're attempting to get to a point where you shine the light of awareness on the whole party going on in the head and will be able to finally uncover it for what it is?

The Big Mind method raises the awareness (that it's all just one big party) but does the opposite of objectifying the thoughts or making them "wrong". Sometimes a more effective way is to integrate thoughts and then transcend them. If you're interested, try to identify with a voice: Own the voice and you will be able to consciously become the voice.  By doing this you instantly disarm the voice because you immediately understand that there is nothing outside of you that can hurt you.

The way youre speaking in your post says to me that there is that there is a "you" and some thoughts are just happening "to you". For example, "you are a hostage of your mind". 

Generally it's not a problem making some space between thoughts and the observation of thoughts.  But when this dichotomy becomes "real" what has happened is that one has merely unhealthily dissociated from the mind rather than healthily disdentified from it. From the perspective of dissociation it's hard to get a grip on the thoughts, because they seem to becoming from nowhere and even "outside". 

Those of us who suffer from low self esteem, or even episodes of suspicion, might imagine that somebody else is doing the persecuting.  When in reality it's our own doing.  Nervousness, anxiety happens when we believe something bad might happen in our environment. This is where owning thoughts come in handy.  If dissociation has happened It's sometimes better to co-operate with a voice, welcome and take direct ownership of the voice (especially if we are not comfortable owning our own dark and self-punishing / sadistic voices).

The illusiory nature of a voice becomes obvious as soon as we own it and understand that the punisher is inside our own heads in direct conflict with our own "positive" self. 

Maybe this technique will be useful to you as a slightly different way of transcending your own thoughts? If we practising healing the dichotomy between the observer and the observed we will quickly be able to see who in our environment is a hostage of their own mind and who is not.  This way it makes it much easier to put ourselves in nourishing non toxic environments and attract better people into our lives.

Mal

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mal

[Mal]

4 hours ago, Teags said:

@Mal 

I will have to read some more about it and try this guided meditation to  grasp what you mean by "identifying as resistance".

For now think about this for a while.  You might even want to do a quickie facilitation on yourself before you get home. 

Pick a voice (an energy). Let's say for simplicity sake "fear".

You can facilitate yourself by asking to speak to the fear.  

Now identify as your fear.  Own the energy.  This means making Teags a 3rd person perspective (objectifying her) and now shifting into inhabiting the fear.

Now let yourself say what you want to say from the 1st person perspective of fear. 

Then switch back to facilitator and ask fear what it's "job" is.

As fear you will have to answer that your job as fear is to be afraid . Which it is!

Switch between facilitator and fear and have a dialogue between the two of you.  Bitch together about how Teags hates you and always wants rid of you.  Complain and say what fear wants to get off its chest. 

What you are doing is integrating an energetic component of yourself while understanding that "Teags" is just another perspective.  The more you facillitate and integrate voices the more you can see that "Teags" is just a concept that suppresses the totality of who you really are. 

Mal

[DizIzMikey]

@Mal @Mal

I wish I could, but as I said I am in a state of not knowing, it is impossible for me to own every thought when I am unaware if every thought is mine, and for that matter if everything is one.

I do not know what I know or if I even know what I know because I do not know.

Perhaps you are at an elevated state which I am not at yet

But regardless the fact the remains that I'm in the unknown 

I cannot own every thought because I do not know for sure if every thought is mine

Thank you for your kind words and helpful insight...you are highly intelligent from what I perceive <3 

 

[DizIzMikey]

@Teags Thank you

If you can I would recommend headphones to cope out in public when you can, which actually what I should be doing for myself now that I think about it.

Perhaps some calming music without words, or perhaps a mantra IF IT HELPS in public. 

The most important thing you can do is self improve yourself

Meditation is the single most important habit for self improvement that you can have according to Leo is Meditation, and I agree.

 

[Teags]

9 hours ago, Mal said:

For now think about this for a while.  You might even want to do a quickie facilitation on yourself before you get home. 

Pick a voice (an energy). Let's say for simplicity sake "fear".

You can facilitate yourself by asking to speak to the fear.  

Now identify as your fear.  Own the energy.  This means making Teags a 3rd person perspective (objectifying her) and now shifting into inhabiting the fear.

Now let yourself say what you want to say from the 1st person perspective of fear. 

Then switch back to facilitator and ask fear what it's "job" is.

As fear you will have to answer that your job as fear is to be afraid . Which it is!

Switch between facilitator and fear and have a dialogue between the two of you.  Bitch together about how Teags hates you and always wants rid of you.  Complain and say what fear wants to get off its chest. 

What you are doing is integrating an energetic component of yourself while understanding that "Teags" is just another perspective.  The more you facillitate and integrate voices the more you can see that "Teags" is just a concept that suppresses the totality of who you really are. 

Mal

 

@Mal this is very cool. I can see the potential it has. I tried it with anxiety and as i was switching back and forth i noticed how much hostility "Teags" spoke with. Thank you for sharing  is this something that needs to be done on a consistent regular basis? 

[Mal]

@Teags

Yes, it's interesting how distancing from the self gives us more insight into how it's the self that is creating the problems, rather than the symptoms themselves.

If it resonates with you give it a go.  Lots of people have had huge life changing psychological shifts during Genpo's Big Mind retreats.  He recommends working with it for 5 years and then moving on to more advanced practices.

Big Mind Big Heart

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mal

[Teags]

On 20 June 2016 at 8:25 AM, Mal said:

@Teags

Yes, it's interesting how distancing from the self gives us more insight into how it's the self that is creating the problems, rather than the symptoms themselves.

If it resonates with you give it a go.  Lots of people have had huge life changing psychological shifts during Genpo's Big Mind retreats.  He recommends working with it for 5 years and then moving on to more advanced practices.

Big Mind Big Heart

 

@Mal thanks for sharing this video. Was quite long but worth watching. I wonder how I would practise this on a daily basis to get life changing psychological shifts. I would love to go to his retreats but unfortunately they are so far away from me. Could you recommend any 'tutorial like' videos? 

[Mal]

@Teags

Hi,

I'm happy to facillitate you via the messaging system here until you get the hang of it. 

If that is an option for you.

If not I will try to get hold of some mp3s. I think I've still got a week's long seminar stashed away on an old laptop from when I was a member of his website.

Mal

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mal

[Richard Alpert]

I didnt read the other comments.  I dont know exatcly what is the difference between panic attack and anxiety attack, but i label the attacks i have had as anxiety attack.

Cognitive behavior therapy is designed for this stuff, i think the main teaching there is putting yourself in those situation constantly where you are uncomfortable and might experience the attacks. it´s very simple, practice makes you better as they say. what you resist, persist.

My mom have experienced panic attacks and she avoids certain situations till the end (arenas where a lot of people). She has no idea what is the psychology behind the attacks and how to work with this. I could do the same, but instead i put myself in those situations on daily basis where i could possible have an attack.

I was shy as fuck before i started my current job (6 years ago) and after about 1200 client meetings i still get a little nervous before meeting a customer.

the words and lines people are telling here wont help you because it isnt anyway similar as talking to people face to face. You dont learn soccer by playing ice-hockey.

If you use any stimulants like coffee or nicotine, try to cut them. at least for me, they tricker anxiety.

But all the best to you, there is nothing you need to worry or fear. It´s the thoughts that trigger certain emotions / body reactions, but can thoughts really hurt you? And you can get through university without being super social, it is not a quality that is needed.