Comments/question(s) about use of psychedelics with mentally unstable people

[Nightwise]

After having watched Leo's recent video in regards to how pyshcedelics work, this question came to mind.

Would you recommend people who are mentally ill or otherwise unstable to start taking psychedelics?

Now, I think most people out of a reflex would say "No!", and they may say something like "Seek a mental health professional"

Now I am not necessarily against seeking out help from other people, in fact I think it's a great idea. But a lot of therapists and counselors are not more conscious than their clients are (being a 'professional' and more mentally stable is not the same as being more conscious). Especially the clinical, mainstream therapists often have a very limited understanding about the total scope of the nature of the psyche and the emotional, energetical and the physical systems and its workings, despite their 'expertise'. I would recommend mentally unstable/ill people to seek out a coach that has a more holistic approach, and who also has an affinity with spirituality and dealing with shadow work 

But despite me totally recommending mentally ill people to seek out many different resources, people, techniques and so forth that can help them in dealing with their mental illness, I feel like opposing or even denying them the access to psychedelics is in many cases not the right thing to do.

Why? Because it's like saying that you have medicine but it can only be used for people that are (relatively) healthy.

Again, 'health' is very relative here because the potential of how 'healthy' (or conscious) you can get here are possibly even infinite, so therefore I'm certainly not saying that 'healthy' people shouldn't take it, but at the same time I feel like people who are mentally ill can also really benefit from it, despite of it having really potentially nasty side-effects.

But that was one of the things I was wondering too, though. Is it with fairly good accuracy predictable that someone who is mentally unstable will have a 'bad trip' when they start using psychedelics? Or can it have a lot of varying effects on even those whose psyche isn't very pure?

One would perhaps a person with a psyche that isn't very pure to have a bad trip because they would encounter their shadows, but what I then wonder is why then people like to take mushrooms or LSD in recreational use, such as in parties? Yes, I know they aren't as mentally unstable or ill as the people I was referring to, but at the same time, they are often not very conscious human beings so they are bound to still have a lot of shadow material within them. Doesn't that then get exposed during such a trip? Or does it depend on the setting and intention of the trip? How does that work? And even when I was doing a group magic mushroom ceremony I noticed that most people got off quite fine with it, despite the serious nature of the ceremony and despite me assessing them as not being 'completely pure' (inasfar I'm able to judge that). Why didn't they have that reaction?

As far as usage with mentally unstable people is concerned, I can only speak from personal experience.

Back in September 2018, I was going to do my first ever guided psychedelic trip (magic mushrooms) in a controlled group setting. I had paid some money for it and the people guiding it were experienced psychonauts so it was a rather safe and responsible setting. Despite me still dealing with some heaviness and shadow issues at the time (though it wasn't overly severe), I made it a very conscious choice to participate in this ceremony, accepting the risks that were involved with doing so in a mental/emotional state that wasn't as... reliable. However, because I really wanted to do this and because I feared that I might be denied access, I basically lied/downscaled/left out information when they asked on the online pre-questionnare about whether or not I had mental issues in the past and/or the present. Whilst on that questionnare they indicated that they would want to discuss it with me without indicating that they would immediately deny me access if I were to admit to some mental instability the past/present, the idea of me being rejected because of it made me really angry and dissapointed, so I basically hid those facts from them.

And yeah, it wasn't a great trip and it left me feeling very heavy and melancholic for a couple of weeks (although nothing severe PTSD-like), I still don't feel any regret for having done it, because it was a risk I fully consciously accepted and an experience I wanted to have nevertheless. I may have brought up some nasty stuff in me, but that's okay because when you get exposed to your shadows it at least gives you the opportunity to start dealing with them. Without having gone on this magic mushroom trip, I wouldn't have had that opportunity had I not taken these mushrooms. I seriously don't regret it.

It took me a bit longer than a year (I think it was October 2019, maybe November) before I felt ready to do yet another mushroom trip (this time solo). Whilst I also had some dark moments during this trip (and also some great insightful moments), this trip didn't leave me feeling so heavy and dark afterwards. Pretty soon after the trip was over, I felt quite fine again and even pleased with myself that I had undergone this trip.

Because I had taken psychedelics whilst still not being very mentally stable and yet not having regret me taking it, I therefore feel like it's not right to deny or to automatically discourage people who have mental issues to take psychedelics, as I still feel like psychedelics can be medicine, despite this medicine often requiring you to face some of your demons and purge them before you can be healed.

HOWEVER, I think people who are facing (very) severe mental issues probably shouldn't do it, as they in their normal waking reality already have enough shit to deal with, and in such a situation I think it's better for them to seek out means for becoming more conscious and in healing their wounds that aren't as intense and impactful as psychedelic effects can be, as, who knows, it just may be more than they can handle and it could drive them batshit crazy.

Therefore, I think the worst mental health cases shouldn't use it until they come to a point where they are a bit more mentally stable using many different means, as the risks of using it at such a point may just be too great.

And people who are maybe not facing (very) severe mental health issues but still definitely some of it, for them it may potentially be a good idea provided they seek out someone who is experienced in guiding people through psychedelic experiences, and then only after having discussed it properly with them first whilst being honest and open about their current mental health situation, and if possible at all, they probably also should seek out such a guide who can provide aftercare for the trip and whom they can discuss what happened with them. Or otherwise someone else whom they can discuss it with and who can help them to process what happened to them.

Yes, I know I didn't discuss the fact that I was still a bit mentally unstable with my guides at the time, but I was really conscious and decisive about what I was doing and it was a situation wherein I took a very conscious risk and I was ready to accept full responsibility of what would happen to me. Because of the fear of being denied and rejected, I chose to not fully share what was going on with me at the time and what my past was with my guides.

But I can't accept the risk of someone with severe mental health issues reading this and making the choice to do psychedelics not because they take a very well thought-out, conscious risk, but them doing it because they feel a personal obligation to do so because 'it's good' or 'I should' or whatever they tell themselves why they should do it, and then them ending up having a traumatic experience with nobody to discuss to help them process what happened to them. If they take psychedelics out of guilt ('I should') or despair or being angry with themselves or any of these sort of modalities, it's just going to be a recipe for disaster.

So that's why I say make sure that if you're going to take any sort of psychedelics, especially if you're mentally unstable, be very, veeerrry careful and make sure it's a very well-considered, well-contemplated and conscious decision.

 

That's what I now felt what I had to say about it, but I still don't know everything about what is exactly to expect with the usage of psychedelics in regards to mentally unstable people, as I only have my experience and I do know for sure that my experience doesn't cover all possible experiences that people can have with psychedelics in varying degrees of mental stability.

What do you guys think about all of this? What is your experience? What insights do you guys have to say on this topic? Feel free to share  

Edited February 17, 2020 by Nightwise

[MrDmitriiV]

1 hour ago, Nightwise said:

Would you recommend people who are mentally ill or otherwise unstable to start taking psychedelics?

Depends on the psychedelic, dose and what type of mental illness and severity of it.

MDMA and LSD, used responsibly, can certainly help many “genuine” mental illnesses.