Question about the Psychedelic Video

[Forrest Adkins]

Here is a question about Leos claim that spiritual traditions are ignorant about psychedelis.

These pure traditions like yoga, buddhism and zen exist for basically over thousand years and their only goal is how to get people to enlightenment. Natural Psychedelics also existed forever. These traditions split of into different groups and developed hundreds of techniques, people advanced them and treated them like a science.

I just dont buy that no Guru ever went as deep with them as Leo and explored that path to see what can be used. I mean why would they be ignorant about exactly that. There might be a case for refined psychedelics like LSD but no one in the history of Buddhism ever seriously considered mushrooms? Why would that be? Seems so odd to me.

[Aaron p]

You'd be surprised how the most obvious of things are hidden right in front of your face. There's a story about a Cyclops (giant being with one eye). One day he woke up confused and heard a voice saying "find the dot, find the dot." He looked around but the only thing he would see was darkness. Just straight up blackness.... couldn't see a single fucking thing. He looked for the dot for hours and hours and hours (just a funny wee story). eventually he said "well shit, I can't find this dot anywhere, I can't see anything!" Then he hears the other person there approach him, and gently take a special cloth and wiped the dot off his eye. Lol. 

Obvious things are hidden well sometimes. Although I highly doubt that there exists no other accounts of people seriously using psycs for spiritual work. However I do doubt that they would have been as concentrated or as powerful as Leo's usage of them. I haven't seen anywhere else with this amount of power or wisdom before

Edited February 17, 2020 by Aaron p

[Leo Gura]

It's simple really, no one had access to pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT until 50 years ago.

So yeah, they couldn't go as deep because this is a new technology.

Psychedelics exists today that no one has ever taken.

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura Has Jesus gone that far? 

Surely there's a limit to how far you can go, and some have reached it. That big dial has to end at 180 or 360 degrees.

[actualizing25]

@Leo Gura but magic mushrooms for example is a tool which has existed for a long time. Why didnt they use these "old" psychedelics?

[MrDmitriiV]

@actualizing25 They did use mushrooms.
History is full with psychedelic use, it’s just neglected by mainstream historians as something important. Joe Rogan talks a lot about this.

 

[pluto]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's simple really, no one had access to pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT until 50 years ago.

So yeah, they couldn't go as deep because this is a new technology.

Psychedelics exists today that no one has ever taken.

You are forgetting you are the ultimate psychedelic. You are creating all of this, without you the substance does not work and is illusory in itself. You are creating the illusion of substance to do something extraordinary with yourself that is aligned with your belief systems to make it appear as if you are experiencing the ultimate level because of the substance, but little do you know...

[Tanz]

5 hours ago, electroBeam said:

@Leo Gura Has Jesus gone that far? 

Surely there's a limit to how far you can go, and some have reached it. That big dial has to end at 180 or 360 degrees.

Jesus was able to go so far because he got torched and crucified then chose love.  Its not a level that most people would want to go to get there.  

[Arzack]

It's kinda simple: people who attained before the "soon to be established entheogenic spiritual era" did so "by meditation alone" because of processes which take form after physical death in between previous lives (where the soul travels through the same astral plane reached with breakthrough doses), which bring equal irreversible changes to the soul as these psychedelic sessions, source: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedruntonirvana/wiki/phase3. "Younger souls" need multiple reincarnations, just like our ancestors, or psychedelics.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Corpus]

I think its important to recognise that the gurus of old still existed in a culture where psychedelics may not have been commonplace, or culturally frowned upon including by their own gurus; free-thinking about the utility and acceptability of any method cannot help but to be limited by such factors, and this is prior to the consideration that many were inducted into studentship or temples/monasteries etc when at a very young and more malleable, and lacking in their own autonomous development. Put yourself into the place of such a kid- watching his mates doing kid-stuff whilst daddy (possibly narcissistically), or circumstances enforce the path on to you with no regard for your own wishes. This will produce obstacles, and will hinder the purity of intent the work demands. And if you were an adult, getting this intention aligned with the outcome will in all likelihood take even longer as this requires attending to ones own conditioning, beliefs and dysfunctions first. A holistic approach is required, especially these days when in order to do the work one has to consider practical necessities (like paying the bills and mortgage, bringing up the kids) first to allow the uncluttered purity of ones inner space from which the fruits have hope of ripening. One has to prepare the field to sow the seeds before any sprouting can even occur. Back in the day, assuming one chose the path, the field was ploughed for you by virtue of the nature of being in a place dedicated to the work, so one has a place from which to attend to ones "inner bullshit" with little distraction. Psychedelics help this part of the endeavour much more speedily, thereby cutting the time to realization by many years but they are only a tool which whilst potentially limitless in what they can reveal,  can give false notions of what is sought by imbuing the peak experiences with a charge that  would be not as pronounced at realization achieved through 20+ years labour.

 

Deconstructing oneself brick by brick, disposing of them, with each cut on the fingers and bead of sweat recalled would probably impart a lesson which sticks better than applying a magical wrecking-ball which still leaves a pile of rubble to deal with.

The ego cannot help to love the drama over the graft.

[Forrest Adkins]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's simple really, no one had access to pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT until 50 years ago.

So yeah, they couldn't go as deep because this is a new technology.

Psychedelics exists today that no one has ever taken.

That might be true but what about ayahuasca? These shamans have gone deep. Why is this taking place seperate from buddhism and yoga?

[Arzack]

29 minutes ago, Forrest Adkins said:

That might be true but what about ayahuasca? These shamans have gone deep. Why is this taking place seperate from buddhism and yoga?

Do you know how much ayahuasca you need to breakthrough? You puke your ass out after ingesting 1/10 of what is needed of that foul substance to reach a breakthrough.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, electroBeam said:

@Leo Gura Has Jesus gone that far? 

Surely there's a limit to how far you can go, and some have reached it. That big dial has to end at 180 or 360 degrees.

Sounds sarcastic at first I’m assuming, but “it’s” not a circle. Shape & degrees are a thought. It’s infinity we’re pointing at. There’s no “done”. Enlightenment is knowing one is infinity. It feels “done” at that point. Relatively speaking, I totally ‘fell for it’. “Full circle” is just a pointer for perspectives, that there is more. Infinity, more. 

[Corpus]

23 minutes ago, Arzack said:

Do you know how much ayahuasca you need to breakthrough? You puke your ass out after ingesting 1/10 of what is needed of that foul substance to reach a breakthrough.

If you are a "purist" who believes you need to drink the foul brew to breakthrough and "purge" (for its own sake or as a "purification") then so be it. Alternatively locate some concentrated caapi extract and take that with freebase DMT (in warm water with citric acid) and you will get an analogous experience with no puking/shitting. In my experience this is easier and avoids such incapacitation.

There are sources out there for caapi extract if you look.

The subtle but overlooked nature of psychedelics is its impossible to enter the zone without intentions. This includes "having no intention" which is an intention. Shamans have their own motivations for their practices and hence their experiences are somewhat in line with their needs. The trick is to construct a conscious intention and pursue it with persistence irrespective of where it takes you; in light of this the intention needs choosing with maturity and wisdom.

[Arzack]

Lol, the good old "intent" befuddlement; what makes you more worthy of people who don't have a "good intent" when taking the substance? It's a common psychedelics misconception. You're gonna get bitchslapped anyway if you need it.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Arzack said:

Lol, the good old "intention" befuddlement; what makes you more worthy of people who don't have a "good intent" when taking the substance? Self-entitlement at its highest.

I don't see the word "good" used in my post. Do you?

Apologies if my use of the words "If you are a purist who believes" offended; let me change that to " The those who believe". My error.   

[Arzack]

7 minutes ago, Corpus said:

I don't see the word "good" used in my post. Do you?

Apologies if my use of the words "If you are a purist who believes" offended; let me change that to " The those who believe". My error.   

Believes don't make you more worthy than anyone else anyway, you were just lucky enough to hear beliefs you think make you better than those who didn't hear/believe them yet.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Arzack said:

Believes don't make you more worthy than anyone else anyway.

Worthiness doesn't come into it but several hundred trips over 30 years gives a pretty informed perspective. Leo is right- 50 trips scarcely scratches the surface.

Ayahuasca refers to the vine only, despite the morphing of the terms' meaning since the brew has become more popular and well-known. Using the concentrated extract is in some ways similar to going for synthetic 5 MeO rather than toad venom. The nastiness of the brew is unnecessary.

[Arzack]

10 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Worthiness doesn't come into it but several hundred trips over 30 years gives a pretty informed perspective. Leo is right- 50 trips scarcely scratches the surface.

Ayahuasca refers to the vine only, despite the morphing of the terms' meaning since the brew has become more popular and well-known. Using the concentrated extract is in some ways similar to going for synthetic 5 MeO rather than toad venom. The nastiness of the brew is unnecessary.

I know that, in fact I was just saying that synthetics weren't available in past times, read the whole thread.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Corpus]

5 minutes ago, Arzack said:

I know that, i was just saying that synthetics weren't available in past times, read the whole thread.

If you can show where you stated synthetics weren't available (other than in this quote of yours), without applying any more re-edits to your posts, I will humbly leave this thread, suitably chastened.