Question For Leo About Free Will

[Francis Trach]

Dear Leo,

I've been meditating every single day and experimenting with magic mushrooms every couple of months to go deeper.

Thank you for all you've done for me.

I'm at a stage where I let go of control and let my awareness guide my actions.

Working on my life purpose,

Recording daily videos on my YouTube channel for 5 months,

Becoming a life coach and working with clients, etc.

To get to that point...

I dropped out of school,

Let go of toxic relationships,

And my life is naturally getting more more and aligned with Truth as I continue my daily practice.

I watched your free will video,

And it shocked me because...

It is clear that my ego is not in control and does not have to figure everything out.

I simply let Truth and higher intelligence flow through me.

But the question is...

Do we have any free will or choice at all?

Or is this human body simple a vehicle for Truth and God to flow through me?

The reason I am asking is because part of my thought process is thinking...

That the more we let go of the ego and and the conditioning,

The MORE of a choice and free will that we have,

Because we can consciously choose what we desire,

VS unconsciously letting the ego choose for me.

But at the same time...

When I'm tapped into the Truth recording a video, or coaching a client, etc...

I completely surrender control and let Truth flow through me,

Completely surrendering any control on what I am going to say.

So am I really making any choices in life?

Or is Truth making choices for me?

Thanks Leo.

Much Love,

Francis Trach

Edited February 14, 2020 by Francis Trach

[Hermaeus Mora]

well if Leo's video about freewill disturbs you go grab some books. it will help you a lot.

here are some of my recommendations for "shortcut" and "summary"

 

1) "Pragmatism" by William James

- I remember, one of his articles in this book, he mentioned the long history of Freewill VS Determinism. Well, he concluded this with his own opinion but it will help you briefly summarize this topic.

2) "History of western philosophy" by Johannes Hirschberger

- this one was a tough one though with thick volume but... you may check some of the ancient philosophy parts about how they interpreted freewill VS determinism. Plus, Hirschberger may give you some insights and logics of how to debunk bullshits on this Freewill VS Determinism issue. 

Furthermore, since I found quite a lot of things in common between Leo and Plotinus, it would be good for you to check some of the Plotinus Idea as a review of Leo's contents.
-
Well personally, I believe you should not solely rely on shortcuts or summaries, check out some original books about freewill and determinism such as Leibniz and so on. And then, build up your own ideas. I do not believe that any of these books could bring you 100% pure wisdom, especially on this matter.

-

May peace be with you ~_~

Edited February 14, 2020 by Hermaeus Mora

[Raw Nature]

@Francis Trach

Just my own 2 cents.

For anything to have sentience it must have what can be termed "reality sentience".

This means that to the extent that there is sentience, the person is aware of and can make adjustments to reality.

This is the definition of free will.

You are an aspect of reality, which is to the extent that you have sentience, free to transform reality. To this extent, you as reality, are responsible for every decision that is bound up and made within sentience, outside this, you are excused.

Free will and sentience have a coupling which cannot be uncoupled, this is because sentience itself exists as a kind of freedom, this is why awareness appears as a kind of "nothingness", this is because this is the encasing by which contents can flow through and you can make changes to the universe through the synthesis that your consciousness engenders in its interaction with those contents.

This doesn't mean we're "all powerful free will universal changing beings" of course, meaning free will exists on a spectrum and we exist somewhere to the right in the animal kingdom as well as individual differences existing right across the human population.

Free will resides in the prefrontal cortex mostly, thus it is the place where people should concentrate most if they wish to improve their free will incrementally over the long term rather than have it diminish more and more with age due to misuse and lack of use.

There's really no way out of free will unfortunately, and I seriously doubt anyone here would be able to logically falsify the statement.

Reality exhibits ultimate sentience and therefore ultimate free will relative to that sentience, we are like tiny microbes as reality which have been granted with awareness to reconfigure along with reality in the larger picture of realities ongoing transformation and understanding of itself.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Raw Nature

[Raw Nature]

In answer to the question: "How did we screw up this subject (free will)?"

Its rather simple actually and I made the same mistake in reasoning about it in the past hence determinism so easily deludes people.

Instead of looking at the thing that was doing the contemplating we only utilised reverse engineering in thinking about the problem so we could only think in a reductionistic manner "well what created the thought? Then what created that? Then what created that?".

But now that I've said what I've said that mistake has been successfully redeemed.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Raw Nature

[Maharani]

14 hours ago, Francis Trach said:

Or is this human body simple a vehicle for Truth and God to flow through me?

Yes.

14 hours ago, Francis Trach said:

That the more we let go of the ego and and the conditioning,

The MORE of a choice and free will that we have,

You can never let go of your conditioning. When it is said that your will is never different from the will of Life (or "God's will"), what is really meant is that all of your thoughts & decisions are always a result of your genetic design and your conditioning through Life. You are never separate from Life. It conditions you in each moment.

14 hours ago, Francis Trach said:

Because we can consciously choose what we desire,

VS unconsciously letting the ego choose for me.

Even after liberation, in each moment, we have the feeling that we are free to choose whatever we think or feel to do. The "ego" is a set of beliefs that make you feel separate and independent from Life. Liberation is to recognize that you are always being lived by Life in the one and only possible way. Even still, the experience always includes the feeling of free will in each moment. It's a paradox that cannot be resolved "in the head".

14 hours ago, Francis Trach said:

So am I really making any choices in life?

Or is Truth making choices for me?

Yes, and yes.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Maharani

[arlin]

This topic is very interesting, and i will follow this. Also, leo said that he would make another video about free will, but unfortunatly, that video never appears  

[Lento]

You are Truth. So, yes. You are making the choices. You even chose to live your life. The twist here is that Truth is nothing, and therefore, it's not a 'thing' that chooses, because a 'thing' implies that there's another thing to contrast with. Truth is the choice itself. It's everything.

[Maharani]

1 minute ago, Lento said:

You even chose to live your life.

In an abstract (and maybe "ultimate") sense, yes. In practice, do you choose to grow your bones?, to beat your heart?, to split your cells?, to dream at night?

[Lento]

5 hours ago, Maharani said:

In an abstract (and maybe "ultimate") sense, yes.

What do you mean abstract/ultimate sense?

5 hours ago, Maharani said:

In practice, do you choose to grow your bones?, to beat your heart?, to split your cells?, to dream at night?

Actually, yes. That's what I realised recently. The bones, the heart, and the cells are all conscious and alive, and the thing that is conscious is precisely the same thing that is me and you. Nothing is happening abstractly, automatically, or spontaneously for no reason. There's something hidden behind the scenes that's creating everything and controlling every little detail.

[Leo Gura]

The more awakened version of the free will question resolves as there not being a difference between free will and not free will, since that is a duality.

It's very tricky. The universe's will is in control, but you are also the universe.

In the end, everything is God's will, but you are also God. So you sit right in the nexus of the matter.

[Maharani]

44 minutes ago, Lento said:

That's what I realised recently. The bones, the heart, and the cells are all conscious and alive, and the thing that is conscious is precisely the same thing that is me and you. Nothing is happening abstractly, automatically, or spontaneously for no reason. There's something hidden behind the scenes that's creating everything and controlling every little detail.

What I meant by abstract/ultimate is that while this is "obviously true" in a sense, in practice the human being doesn't perceive themself as the universe growing itself. More importantly, you as the universe may be "willing" the growing process, but you as a human being cannot choose to grow a tentacle (what's up, Leo?) or transform your penis into a vagina. It is your "will" as the universe to grow the body by the laws of physics, but your "will" as a human must then be limited by that.

[Lento]

1 hour ago, Maharani said:

What I meant by abstract/ultimate is that while this is "obviously true" in a sense, in practice the human being doesn't perceive themself as the universe growing itself. More importantly, you as the universe may be "willing" the growing process, but you as a human being cannot choose to grow a tentacle (what's up, Leo?) or transform your penis into a vagina.

This is because humans have a wrong notion of free will. Free will is not egoic will. God's will is necessarily good, loving, and intelligent. That's what makes it free. But the mind can't comprehend that because it wants to maintain a limited control over reality. It's like the mind watching a movie and thinking it's creating it. No! The movie is prior to the mind. And the mind is part of the movie.

1 hour ago, Maharani said:

It is your "will" as the universe to grow the body by the laws of physics, but your "will" as a human must then be limited by that.

There are no laws of physics! Even though, there seems to be. This is a mindfuck, but nevertheless true. It's not that they don't exist experimentally. They do, or to be more precise, they have been, as far as our knowledge goes. But we can't expect reality to keep behaving in the same ways forever, because reality is non-linear and a-rational. We can never know what may create twists in how reality works.

...

Of course, all of this communication is not what it actually is, because ultimately there's no such thing as "will". It's just God being Itself without "doing" or "willing" anything.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Lento

[Billy Shears]

13 hours ago, arlin said:

This topic is very interesting, and i will follow this. Also, leo said that he would make another video about free will, but unfortunatly, that video never appears  

I ask myself that all the time. So @Leo Gura, will the long-awaited video ever appear? ?

[Roy]

Free will doesn't truly exist, but the very real illusion makes it feel so.

My advice? Don't overthink and just enjoy the ride.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Roy

[Maharani]

20 hours ago, Lento said:

This is because humans have a wrong notion of free will. Free will is not egoic will. God's will is necessarily good, loving, and intelligent. That's what makes it free.

I don't really see how the latter ("free") follows from the former ("good, loving, intelligent"). In any case, I pretty much fully agree with your post. I just think that this vantage point is sort of impractical when it comes to pondering free will on an experientially perceived individual level. I offer again this answer: There is a *feeling* of free will in each moment, but every thought and decision is the one and only possible result of a person's design (genetic make-up) and conditioning through Life.

[Lento]

@Maharani

It's freedom through determinism. We as egos just like to complain, and that's part of the goodness, love, and intelligence of God. In the end of the day, if any ego was given foresight into the future and was given the choice to change its destiny, it would choose its determined one, the one that God has chosen already. Why? Because the determined one is the most good, full of love, and intelligent one for the ego. This manifested world is God's gift to the ego.

The feeling of freedom is there, because we're free, because we're God, but egos lack acceptance. If they could accept, they would align with God and become angels.

[Maharani]

Once more I agree with all but the wording. It's a freedom from psychological thought & attitudinal resistance. It's not a freedom of willing Life into a different path than the "pre"-determined one.