Oh The Paradoxical Nature Of Human Interactions

[Mal]

11 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Words

@Emerald Wilkins 

I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means

[Heart of Space]

3 hours ago, Lorenzo Engel said:

hey dude, go read 'sex at dawn' by anthropologist cacilda jetha

monogamy is a social construct created with the arising of agriculture. men and women evolved in a multimale-multifemale mating system.

romantic love is a centuries-old lie

fuck who you want to

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships/dp/0061707813/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466811370&sr=8-1&keywords=sex+at+dawn

Will check that out, mate.  Thanks. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Mal said:

@Emerald Wilkins 

I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means

A lot of the language that I use is for the practical purpose of communicating. So, if I say 'ultimate truth' or 'higher nature' or anything like that, these are metaphors for practical understanding from the dualistic perspective. From the non-dual perspective, there is no ultimate truth, higher nature, lower nature, or self. There are illusions. But most people live from the dualistic (ego) perspective and communication must necessarily happen from the standpoint of duality in order for people to make meaning from words. This is why I wrote "words". They're the damndest thing.

[Mal]

@Emerald Wilkins You sound like you know awakening.  Is this so?

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Mal said:

@Emerald Wilkins You sound like you know awakening.  Is this so?

At the present time, no. But I had two experiences of ego-transcendence in my past that gave me very strong glimpses of what the enlightened paradigm is like. Each lasted for several hours and were spurred on by use of an entheogen.

I was able to see through the illusion of my identity completely, and I released all of my petty fears and concerns regarding the self that I was living as. I recognized that I was constantly deceiving myself, and this lying was what obscured my awareness of the wisdom that had always been there. I had always known everything that I needed to know as a human being. My fear of death went away completely and I was finally at peace with the fact that I would die one day and be forgotten, and that that's exactly what's supposed to happen. Also, I was capable of unconditional love, even of things that I didn't like and even reviled. I recognized the completeness and perfection in everything, and there was no more self-hatred or hatred of anything. My emotions played out at full stretch because I was finally allowing them and being honest about them. I felt deeper joy, sorrow, lust, and anger than I had ever allowed myself to feel. And all these emotions (positive and negative) were like watching a beautiful natural phenomenon and meant nothing about me as a person. This was a huge contrast to the numbness with which I lived my life at the time. I valued stoicism then, so emotions were not acceptable to me because of my self image. I also felt completely connected with everything in existence, and that existence was aware of me. I felt this awareness as something very self-evident. I was also able to pick up on subtler things, like the impact of the texture of the wall on the mood of the room. I was able to make connections between things  happening now and larger patterns. But this wasn't in any analytical way. It was as though it was just self-evident. Also, many of the traits that I had repressed (some of them since childhood) came back into my conscious awareness because they posed no threat to my self-image. It was a complete letting go.

It was heaven on Earth, and I was only looking to get high. I didn't expect to have my entire worldview and experience of reality turned on its head forever. I just wanted to see some cool colors and be like the hippies. I was only twenty and seeking a novel experience. It caused many issues in the aftermath because I didn't know what to call it or how to reconcile it with my daily life until I found Leo's videos on enlightenment which lead me to finding other resources and tools.

[Mal]

26 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

At the present time, no. But I had two experiences of ego-transcendence in my past that gave me very strong glimpses of what the enlightened paradigm is like. Each lasted for several hours and were spurred on by use of an entheogen.

I was able to see through the illusion of my identity completely, and I released all of my petty fears and concerns regarding the self that I was living as. I recognized that I was constantly deceiving myself, and this lying was what obscured my awareness of the wisdom that had always been there. I had always known everything that I needed to know as a human being. My fear of death went away completely and I was finally at peace with the fact that I would die one day and be forgotten, and that that's exactly what's supposed to happen. Also, I was capable of unconditional love, even of things that I didn't like and even reviled. I recognized the completeness and perfection in everything, and there was no more self-hatred or hatred of anything. My emotions played out at full stretch because I was finally allowing them and being honest about them. I felt deeper joy, sorrow, lust, and anger than I had ever allowed myself to feel. And all these emotions (positive and negative) were like watching a beautiful natural phenomenon and meant nothing about me as a person. This was a huge contrast to the numbness with which I lived my life at the time. I valued stoicism then, so emotions were not acceptable to me because of my self image. I also felt completely connected with everything in existence, and that existence was aware of me. I felt this awareness as something very self-evident. I was also able to pick up on subtler things, like the impact of the texture of the wall on the mood of the room. I was able to make connections between things  happening now and larger patterns. But this wasn't in any analytical way. It was as though it was just self-evident. Also, many of the traits that I had repressed (some of them since childhood) came back into my conscious awareness because they posed no threat to my self-image. It was a complete letting go.

It was heaven on Earth, and I was only looking to get high. I didn't expect to have my entire worldview and experience of reality turned on its head forever. I just wanted to see some cool colors and be like the hippies. I was only twenty and seeking a novel experience. It caused many issues in the aftermath because I didn't know what to call it or how to reconcile it with my daily life until I found Leo's videos on enlightenment which lead me to finding other resources and tools.

I would give you a thumbsie but I used all mine it seems. 

Comments pending

[Mal]

@Emerald Wilkins

What do you think is blocking you now?

From becoming enlightened, I mean?

[Heart of Space]

12 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

A lot of the language that I use is for the practical purpose of communicating. So, if I say 'ultimate truth' or 'higher nature' or anything like that, these are metaphors for practical understanding from the dualistic perspective. From the non-dual perspective, there is no ultimate truth, higher nature, lower nature, or self. There are illusions. But most people live from the dualistic (ego) perspective and communication must necessarily happen from the standpoint of duality in order for people to make meaning from words. This is why I wrote "words". They're the damndest thing.

This is a given.  The way Mal corrected you in your use of words is like that guy who corrects people for the incorrect usage of "your" and "you're" or "to" and "too."  He's right, but his correction is irrelevant and adds nothing of value to what is being communicated. 

[Mal]

5 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

This is a given.  The way Mal corrected you in your use of words is like that guy who corrects people for the incorrect usage of "your" and "you're" or "to" and "too."  He's right, but his correction is irrelevant and adds nothing of value to what is being communicated. 

There is no value the chatter. It's just identity talk.  The value was popping her out of the identity if she's ready.

It's not for everyone, granted, the reason you don't see it is because you're looking at it through your own warped lens

Edited June 25, 2016 by Mal

[Heart of Space]

9 minutes ago, Mal said:

There is no value the chatter. It's just identity talk.  The value was popping her out of the identity if she's ready.

It's not for everyone, granted, the reason you don't see it is because you're looking at it through your own warped lens

No, I understand completely what you were doing and the value of it.  My point was that you just assumed, falsely, that she didn't realize or understand what was going on.  I understand what you're saying already, that's a given.  Perhaps keep this kind of response to enlightenment related threads?  Do what you want, but I'm just pointing out that you were making an unnecessary presumption, which comes across as patronizing to be honest. 

[Mal]

3 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

No, I understand completely what you were doing and the value of it.  My point was that you just assumed, falsely, that she didn't realize or understand what was going on.  I understand what you're saying already, that's a given.  Perhaps keep this kind of response to enlightenment related threads?  Do what you want, but I'm just pointing out that you were making an unnecessary presumption, which comes across as patronizing to be honest. 

Yes..This is true, if a person lives in the dualistic world of I you we it etc are true. 

But "my" actual intent was to try to appeal to something else than the identity.

The human identity does not know this and will see it through the victim world of duality.

Victims create others victims with their rules and terms of engagement.  This is why most people are not awakened, because of the matrix of polite society. 

So, no you have no idea what I'm doing, as you are a victim inside a social matrix siding with somebody who stroked your ego the right way, while at the same time your shadow side insults and puts down others who don't live upto your expectations. 

This kind of work is above your head. But emerald might be open to it. Let's see.

 

[Heart of Space]

2 minutes ago, Mal said:

Yes..This is true, if a person lives in the dualistic world of I you we it etc are true. 

But "my" actual intent was to try to appeal to something else than the identity.

The human identity does not know this and will see it through the victim world of duality.

Victims create others victims with their rules and terms of engagement.  This is why most people are not awakened, because of the matrix of polite society. 

So, no you have no idea what I'm doing, as you are a victim inside a social matrix siding with somebody who stroked your ego the right way, while at the same time your shadow side insults and puts down others who don't live upto your expectations. 

This kind of work is above your head. But emerald might be open to it. Let's see.

 

Do you interact with humans?  Do you make air quotes every time you use the word "I" in a sentence?  If not, are you not engaging the world using language that at least appears to imply a world that has a dualistic nature?

Are you sure you even understand me, my motivations, or what I'm really doing?  How sure are you?  Why do you pretend to be so certain to know my perspective when you don't experience it?  Why do you pretend to know my level of open mindedness?  I think your ego wants to perceive me in a certain way because I hurt your feelings a bit.  You seem to really want to perceive me as this closed minded idiot who has the self-awareness of a reptile.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like I really struck a nerve with you by the way you follow me around the forum, comment in my threads, and give me meaningless negative reputation points.  In that case, I'll quit being an ass specifically to you, since my intention isn't to hurt anyone's feelings in any meaningful way. 

But, I'd be really careful if I were you, because it seems like you've fooled yourself a little with how self-aware you are.  This whole dropping into a thread with a topic not relating to awakening, in a forum section not about awakening, correcting others in their use of dualistic language seems like a way to prove to yourself how aware you are in comparison to all of us.  Especially when she was already aware of her use of dualistic language.

[Mal]

@Heart of Space

This has got nothing to do with self awareness. 

 

[Heart of Space]

1 minute ago, Mal said:

@Heart of Space

This has got nothing to do with self awareness. 

 

Thanks for your response, Mal.  I'm serious, thank you. 

[Ayla]

@Mal @Heart of Space

This has taken a turn that has nothing to do with initial topic. I'd like to ask to take your private affairs in a ..humm... private message. 

When I have time, I will be deleting unrelated posts from here. 

Thank you

[Mal]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

Thanks for your response, Mal.  I'm serious, thank you. 

Just because somebody has insight to dualistic language does not mean they are out of the dream of dualism.

There is an "I" it's just whether one is identified as the I. If one is identified with the I they use patterns of speech related to dualism. 

My speech is very basic because there is no me doing anything. I even find it funny trying to correct the spelling..

 

[Heart of Space]

1 minute ago, Ayla said:

@Mal @Heart of Space

This has taken a turn that has nothing to do with initial topic. I'd like to ask to take your private affairs in a ..humm... private message. 

When I have time, I will be deleting unrelated posts from here. 

Thank you

Don't delete them, Ayla.  It's fine.  Topic resumed. 

[Mal]

50 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Do you interact with humans?  Do you make air quotes every time you use the word "I" in a sentence?  If not, are you not engaging the world using language that at least appears to imply a world that has a dualistic nature?

Yes.  Interacting with humans is a pleasure.  Tip toeing around ego's is't.

 

51 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Are you sure you even understand me, my motivations, or what I'm really doing?  How sure are you?  Why do you pretend to be so certain to know my perspective when you don't experience it?  Why do you pretend to know my level of open mindedness?  I think your ego wants to perceive me in a certain way because I hurt your feelings a bit.  You seem to really want to perceive me as this closed minded idiot who has the self-awareness of a reptile.

Don't confuse high development with having no feelings.  Highly developed ego's are respectful of other systems.  But even upon awakening there is still a bodymind organism that registers trauma, and responds appropriately.

I don't see you are a "reptile".  I've never said these words to you, or implied that you are an "idiot".  You seem to have a high IQ. But your words are an indication to me of how you fear that the monster could actually be you - although you might not want to admit it yet. Objectively minded rational people don't assume such things - aka assume that others are 'thinking their own thoughts'.  This "objective" quality you seek in others as you test them with anti-social behaviours and smutty remarks is what you seem to long to develop in yourself, if it were not the case that the internal "idiot reptile" were holding you back.

59 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like I really struck a nerve with you by the way you follow me around the forum, comment in my threads, and give me meaningless negative reputation points.   

Why do you imagine that people are not going to take offense to some of the things you say and do?  Even if they do, it's not as big a deal as you're making it.  This is life, even animals who don't have an egoic mind come into conflict now and again.  I had to develop myself to the point of being socially minded, I don't see how you can say I'm being unsocial by commenting about dualistic words on your thread while you are blatantly socially underdeveloped?  This makes no logical sense, even for me who is transcending logic.

You are correct, I don't know your intentions, alas I can only see what I see.  But development unfolds in stages, and we have all been there at the terrible twos, it's just some of us get stuck there emotionally and behaviourally.

 

 

[Heart of Space]

40 minutes ago, Mal said:

Yes.  Interacting with humans is a pleasure.  Tip toeing around ego's is't.

 

Don't confuse high development with having no feelings.  Highly developed ego's are respectful of other systems.  But even upon awakening there is still a bodymind organism that registers trauma, and responds appropriately.

I don't see you are a "reptile".  I've never said these words to you, or implied that you are an "idiot".  You seem to have a high IQ. But your words are an indication to me of how you fear that the monster could actually be you - although you might not want to admit it yet. Objectively minded rational people don't assume such things - aka assume that others are 'thinking their own thoughts'.  This "objective" quality you seek in others as you test them with anti-social behaviours and smutty remarks is what you seem to long to develop in yourself, if it were not the case that the internal "idiot reptile" were holding you back.

Why do you imagine that people are not going to take offense to some of the things you say and do?  Even if they do, it's not as big a deal as you're making it.  This is life, even animals who don't have an egoic mind come into conflict now and again.  I had to develop myself to the point of being socially minded, I don't see how you can say I'm being unsocial by commenting about dualistic words on your thread while you are blatantly socially underdeveloped?  This makes no logical sense, even for me who is transcending logic.

You are correct, I don't know your intentions, alas I can only see what I see.  But development unfolds in stages, and we have all been there at the terrible twos, it's just some of us get stuck there emotionally and behaviourally.

 

 

Do you feel like you're tip toeing around my ego with this post? 

I understand that the bodymind organism registers trauma and responds appropriately.  If I threw a physical punch at you, obviously there would be a response.  But I'm not throwing a punch at you, in fact, I wasn't even insulting you if you go back and read most of my posts to you.  Read the posts in my thread about Rationalism and you'll find that aside from a little sarcasm there wasn't really anything viscous directed towards you.  At worst, you could say the "anal" comment was vulgar, but it was just a silly joke and in the same post I joke about having a small penis.  It was just me being absurd in putting across the point that emotions happen and I was honest about being sarcastic.  I think you partly misunderstand me, Mal.  I really do. 

Who's saying you're unsocial?  I don't even know what that means.  I was saying that you were responding with an unnecessary and false presumption and doing so in an inappropriate way.  And you're justifying this by saying I'm socially underdeveloped?  Two wrongs don't make a right, friend. 

The way you have responded to my words tells me you probably aren't as enlightened as you put off. 

Edit:  But foreally, if you want to respond just send me a PM I'd be happy to if you want.  I don't want to get modded again I've already had to get Leo to reverse a perma-ban once and I don't want to have to annoy him again.

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Mal]

11 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Do you feel like you're tip toeing around my ego with this post? 

I understand that the bodymind organism registers trauma and responds appropriately.  If I threw a physical punch at you, obviously there would be a response.  But I'm not throwing a punch at you, in fact, I wasn't even insulting you if you go back and read most of my posts to you.  Read the posts in my thread about Rationalism and you'll find that aside from a little sarcasm there wasn't really anything viscous directed towards you.  At worst, you could say the "anal" comment was vulgar, but it was just a silly joke and in the same post I joke about having a small penis.  It was just me being absurd in putting across the point that emotions happen and I was honest about being sarcastic.  I think you partly misunderstand me, Mal.  I really do. 

Who's saying you're unsocial?  I don't even know what that means.  I was saying that you were responding with an unnecessary and false presumption and doing so in an inappropriate way.  And you're justifying this by saying I'm socially underdeveloped?  Two wrongs don't make a right, friend. 

The way you have responded to my words tells me you probably aren't as enlightened as you put off. 

 

I'm not enlightened.  Enlightenment doesn't exist.  

You understand nothing, if you believe enlightenment exists, that's all I need to register your ignorance scale.

Some people might find your jokes fun.  I don't.  I happen to understand through personal experience that they are symptoms of a deeper narcissism.  

Can you conceive that there are people out there who used to exhibit such behaviours themselves, and then woke up to the fact that these behaviours represent symptoms of a very sick self concept?

This is not a shaming contest.  But if you feel like taking my ego on then you will have to face some harsh realities.