Oh The Paradoxical Nature Of Human Interactions

[Heart of Space]

I want to be with a sexy, physically attractive girl.  I also want to be loved by that person and love that person back.  I want sex from that person and I want me to be the only one to have sex with her.  I also want to fuck other women.  I've tried sticking to one, but I literally cannot, sex with new women is one of the most enjoyable acts for me. 

My wants are so paradoxical.  Oh wise men of this forum, do you offer solutions?  Probably gonna tell me to look inward bla bla bla bla.  I partly joke here. 

In all seriousness, most men deep down have these all these conflicting desires.  What is your solution, if you have any.  I'm just curious what you have to say.

[Natasha]

@Heart of Space Can men be monogamous? Steve Santagati says 'yes' and 'no'

 

[charlie2dogs]

9 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I want to be with a sexy, physically attractive girl.  I also want to be loved by that person and love that person back.  I want sex from that person and I want me to be the only one to have sex with her.  I also want to fuck other women.  I've tried sticking to one, but I literally cannot, sex with new women is one of the most enjoyable acts for me. 

My wants are so paradoxical.  Oh wise men of this forum, do you offer solutions?  Probably gonna tell me to look inward bla bla bla bla.  I partly joke here. 

In all seriousness, most men deep down have these all these conflicting desires.  What is your solution, if you have any.  I'm just curious what you have to say.

there is no solution for you, you need to just keep doing what you are doing, and keep expecting what you are expecting until you create enough  consequences, pain, and misery for yourself and others and then maybe you will take responsibility for your actions and what they are doing to yourself and others, and then maybe that wont ever happen, maybe you will just leave this body as a unconscious human entity and remain that way for a very long time,  or you might cease to exist,  maybe a lot of the newage mumbo jumbo isnt right about what happens after the death of the body,  after all most of what is heard about it has never been experienced by those saying it, its just people's theories and beliefs.  at this point you dont have the power to change or take responsibility and since looking inward is partly a joke at this point, your real self is most likely saying bla bla bla  does this help in any way, or should i just be all sweet and nice and pretend that you are just fine and you are on a journey, and its just a learning experience and you are going to exist forever?

[reez]

@Heart of Space

Well, I don't think there is anyway that you can make sure that she does not hook up with another guy. However, if you Alone can satisfy this certain girl needs. Sexual/Emotional etc. she doesn't need to find another guy.

I have not read this book, but one of my "mentors" recommended it if you're looking for multiple relationships. "Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton

[Harry]

@Heart of Space

It's pretty simple, you have three options:

1) Keep doing what you are doing—and keep fucking things up.

2) Take responsibility of your actions, stop breaking your commitments to your girl, and cultivate some self-control. (Easier said than done for some people)

3) Stop getting in monogamous relationship when you cant be monogamous. Look into polygamy if you can get past the need for your girlfriend to only bang you.  

[Heart of Space]

On 6/18/2016 at 5:17 AM, charlie2dogs said:

there is no solution for you, you need to just keep doing what you are doing, and keep expecting what you are expecting until you create enough  consequences, pain, and misery for yourself and others and then maybe you will take responsibility for your actions and what they are doing to yourself and others, and then maybe that wont ever happen, maybe you will just leave this body as a unconscious human entity and remain that way for a very long time,  or you might cease to exist,  maybe a lot of the newage mumbo jumbo isnt right about what happens after the death of the body,  after all most of what is heard about it has never been experienced by those saying it, its just people's theories and beliefs.  at this point you dont have the power to change or take responsibility and since looking inward is partly a joke at this point, your real self is most likely saying bla bla bla  does this help in any way, or should i just be all sweet and nice and pretend that you are just fine and you are on a journey, and its just a learning experience and you are going to exist forever?

Wow, negative Nancy over here. 

Leave the body and continue to be unconscious?  What?  How does one remain existing as an unconscious being when they are dead?  Pretty much none of the new age mumbo jumbo is correct, if any at all.  It's mostly just beliefs and concepts people are creating, which are no better than religious beliefs.  I probably won't exist forever and enlightenment could very well be and probably is bullshit, I acknowledge all of that.  You don't have to be nice to me at all, that's not a prerequisite in interacting with me. 

[charlie2dogs]

55 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Wow, negative Nancy over here. 

Leave the body and continue to be unconscious?  What?  How does one remain existing as an unconscious being when they are dead?  Pretty much none of the new age mumbo jumbo is correct, if any at all.  It's mostly just beliefs and concepts people are creating, which are no better than religious beliefs.  I probably won't exist forever and enlightenment could very well be and probably is bullshit, I acknowledge all of that.  You don't have to be nice to me at all, that's not a prerequisite in interacting with me. 

i have been nice to you, i just gave you some reality which you didnt understand, and you gave me back a bunch of nonsense and mumbo jumbo. you are functioning as an unconscious human identity right now, the question is will you remain that way until  you leave the physical body, or does it even matter at this point.

[Ajax]

@Heart of Space What caused you to have these opinions?

This isn't an existential question...

I am looking to modify my dating model and I am curious about what lead you to these conclusions..

[Philip]

@Heart of Space

You have two choices: fulfilling your desires, or changing them. You seem to be maybe close-minded to the latter, so your solution is to study and practice pick up, until what you have correlates with what you need.

If, however, you want to try the second path, then your solution is to study and practice mindfulness, until what you need correlates with what you have.

I'm not saying one solution is better than the other, though. Personally, I started more with the first one, and now I'm focusing more on the second one.

I hope my words can simplify your issue a bit  

[Heart of Space]

On 6/22/2016 at 7:14 PM, charlie2dogs said:

i have been nice to you, i just gave you some reality which you didnt understand, and you gave me back a bunch of nonsense and mumbo jumbo. you are functioning as an unconscious human identity right now, the question is will you remain that way until  you leave the physical body, or does it even matter at this point.

I'm very self-aware and continue to become more self-aware everyday.  Not sure where you're going with this.  I just sound like a neurotic ass who has zero self-awareness, partly because I am incredibly neurotic, but also because I'm honest about the thoughts and feelings passing in the mind.  I don't have a Jesus complex just because I meditate and embrace the very flawed human side of myself. 

On 6/22/2016 at 9:08 PM, Ajax said:

@Heart of Space What caused you to have these opinions?

This isn't an existential question...

I am looking to modify my dating model and I am curious about what lead you to these conclusions..

In terms of sex, I like sex with women.  When I have sex with one woman after a few months it starts to get pretty boring and stale.  I mean it's ok I guess, but it's nothing like that first week when you first do it with a new person.  Part of my sexual enjoyment is new women and that urge ever goes away in the long run, for me.  I thought that's how most men felt, deep inside if they're being honest with themselves.  No matter how much you love your wife or girlfriend, no matter how hot they are, you always just want to fuck other women on the side.  Am I wrong? 

And I don't want my partner to do the same because I'm selfish and I hate the idea of her being with someone else, probably just some instinctual desire that's pretty ingrained.  It's really all just selfishness, but it's there and it's not going to magically poof away with introspection.

[Emerald]

On 6/18/2016 at 8:50 PM, Heart of Space said:

I want to be with a sexy, physically attractive girl.  I also want to be loved by that person and love that person back.  I want sex from that person and I want me to be the only one to have sex with her.  I also want to fuck other women.  I've tried sticking to one, but I literally cannot, sex with new women is one of the most enjoyable acts for me. 

My wants are so paradoxical.  Oh wise men of this forum, do you offer solutions?  Probably gonna tell me to look inward bla bla bla bla.  I partly joke here. 

In all seriousness, most men deep down have these all these conflicting desires.  What is your solution, if you have any.  I'm just curious what you have to say.

Well, I think that this is very normal to want to have deep relationships but also to want the excitement of experiencing new partners sexually. It's two different areas of the brain and two different neurochemicals that contribute to both of these feelings. One is based in the reptilian brain (biological urges and instincts) and the other is based in the pre-frontal cortex (emotions, socialization, reason).

Now, even though the wanting to have sex with other people is more pronounced in men because more sexual variety equals more children and more genetic variety and more ways to pass on the genes. Sexual variety for women is biologically normal too but only after a few years when the child is well into toddlerhood. This is because, in nomadic times a woman could not both provide for a baby and care for a baby at the same time because human children are born premature because of our brain growth. So, the father needed to provide for the first few years otherwise the children would not survive and the woman would likely be in bad shape as well because of the intensity of the labor process. So, women have more biological impetus to settle with one partner. But once the three years is up, it benefits our gene pool for the woman to find another strong partner to mate with so that more genetic variety is added to the gene pool. For women, finding the best partner to make the children who are most fit to the environment is the most important. Women can only have so many children because it takes an entire 9 months to make one for them, and there's a lot of work and labor that goes into the process of making and caring for a child. So, the man has to be awesome. Men, on the other hand, can afford a few duds because they can have thousands of children in their lifetime. So, the biological impetus is to mate whenever possible. Both of these behaviors in men and women are what contributes to a biologically healthier species.

But because we have a very complex social structure and a complex emotional understanding, we live in a society where men and women have to co-exist and find ways to make these two conflicting drives work in order to create a healthy relationship, a healthy family, and a healthy society. We also all want to be treated fairly because of our ability to reason which comes from the pre-frontal cortex. So, our lower nature (instincts) often conflict with our higher nature (socialization). So, these two things must be reconciled. This is where the paradox comes into play, because (no matter what) there is no way to perfectly reconcile this paradox. The only thing to do is to accept that you will never have things exactly as you want them, because one drive will always cancel out parts of the other.

Your best bet for minimizing the issues caused by this paradox is to find an incredibly open minded partner who understands this paradox and doesn't shame you for wanting to have sex with other women. But to expect her to allow you to sleep with other women, while not being okay with her sleeping with other men will undoubtedly get in the way of her pre-frontal cortex's need for fairness. And even if she allowed it, deep down it would cause a barrier to intimacy (which your pre-frontal cortex wants) because of the unfairness aspect. This open-mindedness is hard to find because most people (especially women as I've noticed) buy into the idea of the fairytale romance of only being attracted to the person you're with, love at first sight, etc. These narrative only create more strain and shame around our most natural tendencies.

So, unfortunately, it is what it is. You just have to make room for this paradox and find a balance between relationship stability and satiating your baser desires. But we're all in the same boat. I have the same struggles and I'm a woman. My husband and I talk about this struggle too, although I enjoy listening to his fantasies more than he enjoys listening to mine. I'm a bit more open-minded in this way because human sexuality is fascinating to me. I love watching the conflict and tension at work. I also know that his desires for sexual variety doesn't mean that he doesn't love me or want to stay with me.

But, you can also change your relationship to your desires, so that they don't run you. I think that you seem to be very self-honest about this dilemma where few people are able to be. So, continue with self-honesty but make it more radical still. All suffering comes from illusion. So, you may not be able to change the way that you're wired on the physical level. Biology is biology. But you can transcend the ego so that you're not buying into "I can only be fulfilled by having things the way that I want them" stories.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Emerald Wilkins

[aurum]

Threesomes dude. Find a girl who is down to bring new girls into the bedroom with you. Frame it as a couple activity you will be doing together. The new girl is just a "toy" for you and her.

If you can't do that, consider an open relationship. Those can be tough to pull off though without blowing up. You need some serious game.

[Heart of Space]

16 hours ago, aurum said:

Threesomes dude. Find a girl who is down to bring new girls into the bedroom with you. Frame it as a couple activity you will be doing together. The new girl is just a "toy" for you and her.

If you can't do that, consider an open relationship. Those can be tough to pull off though without blowing up. You need some serious game.

 

I'll just quote a post that got me temp banned that answers this. 

"Threesomes are overrated as fuck.  Have had quite a few at this point.  Girl, girl, me, and guy, me, girl. 

The girl, girl ones were ok, but really all I wanted to do was fuck the newer girl solo, because of novelty factor.  But, you can't really just do that because you will make the other girl jealous most of the time.  So, if you're a nice and polite person like me you worry about stuff like that which takes your mind off the pleasure. 

The guy, girl, guy ones were annoying.  Most of the time, me and the girl just wait till the other male (her husband) gets too drunk and we bang by ourselves and it's waaaaaaaaay more enjoyable.  I know this seems scummy, but he doesn't care at all, he actually likes that his wife is desired and banged by other males. 

Anyways, all they are is pretty much bragging rights.  Which is fun for all about five minutes when you realize you're just being a shallow twat. "

[Heart of Space]

18 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

This open-mindedness is hard to find because most people (especially women as I've noticed) buy into the idea of the fairytale romance of only being attracted to the person you're with, love at first sight, etc. These narrative only create more strain and shame around our most natural tendencies.

So, unfortunately, it is what it is. You just have to make room for this paradox and find a balance between relationship stability and satiating your baser desires. But we're all in the same boat. I have the same struggles and I'm a woman. My husband and I talk about this struggle too, although I enjoy listening to his fantasies more than he enjoys listening to mine. I'm a bit more open-minded in this way because human sexuality is fascinating to me. I love watching the conflict and tension at work. I also know that his desires for sexual variety doesn't mean that he doesn't love me or want to stay with me.

But, you can also change your relationship to your desires, so that they don't run you. I think that you seem to be very self-honest about this dilemma where few people are able to be. So, continue with self-honesty but make it more radical still. All suffering comes from illusion. So, you may not be able to change the way that you're wired on the physical level. Biology is biology. But you can transcend the ego so that you're not buying into "I can only be fulfilled by having things the way that I want them" stories.

I started a slow clap at the end of reading this post.  So, spot on you couldn't be any more spot on.   I basically have nothing to say cause you said it all and I was just in a state of nodding my head for the entirely of the five minutes it took to read this very objective and non-emotional response to what I said.  So rare to see this. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Flicker_boy]

hey dude, go read 'sex at dawn' by anthropologist cacilda jetha

monogamy is a social construct created with the arising of agriculture. men and women evolved in a multimale-multifemale mating system.

romantic love is a centuries-old lie

fuck who you want to

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships/dp/0061707813/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466811370&sr=8-1&keywords=sex+at+dawn

[Emerald]

32 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I started a slow clap at the end of reading this post.  So, spot on you couldn't be any more spot on.   I basically have nothing to say cause you said it all and I was just in a state of nodding my head for the entirely of the five minutes it took to read this very objective and non-emotional response to what I said.  So rare to see this. 

Thanks. I'm glad that it was helpful. Many bloody battles were waged between my higher and lower nature to come to this understanding. hehehe.

[Mal]

56 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

between my higher and lower nature 

There is no higher and lower nature.  There's not even a "my".

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Mal

[Emerald]

26 minutes ago, Mal said:

There is no higher and lower nature.  There's not even a "my".

 

True from the ultimate perspective. But from the dualistic perspective, it is an apt description for the internal phenomenon that he was talking about. It is what's most helpful in this situation. Kind of like if you're trying to order a pizza and pizza guy says who should I deliver it to. The you say "There is no me. The person I call "I" is an illusion based in ego-consciousness." He's going to be very confused as to whom to deliver that pizza to.  

[Mal]

@Emerald Wilkins There is no ultimate perspective.  That's just more baloney

[Emerald]

22 minutes ago, Mal said:

@Emerald Wilkins There is no ultimate perspective.  That's just more baloney

Words