Difference between nonduality and the formless.

[Endangered-EGO]

What is the difference between nonduality and the formless? The formless includes nonduality, but apparently nonduality is also possible without experiencing the formless in the present moment. I have had psychotic states of the nothingness and was also able to meditate on infinity and keep up the nothingness throughout the day. It s clear to me that the formless comes with nonduality, but right now for example I believe I can just become an observer (nonduality?) without experiencing the formless. 

Is that correct?

[eputkonen]

Nonduality is neither form nor formless...but transcending both.  Nonduality is already the case...whether there is form or formlessness.  Form and formlessness are not separate or other.

Edited February 9, 2020 by eputkonen

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

What is the difference between nonduality and the formless? The formless includes nonduality, but apparently nonduality is also possible without experiencing the formless in the present moment. I have had psychotic states of the nothingness and was also able to meditate on infinity and keep up the nothingness throughout the day. It s clear to me that the formless comes with nonduality, but right now for example I believe I can just become an observer (nonduality?) without experiencing the formless. 

Is that correct?

Non-duality means One.  There is only one thing here - God or Consciousness or Infinity.  Non-duality includes duality within it.  But a pure non-dual state of consciousness is the collapse of duality into non-duality.

Infinity / God is in its purest form is formless.  Absolute Infinity must have no form and be absolutely nothing.  Because nothing is or contains everything.  Is or contains is the same - so nothing is everything.  And everything is nothing.

In a non-dual state of consciousness, all duality or separation collapses into One.  Absolute Infinity.  And this has no form.  So when you experience a non-dual state you as the observer and what is being observed collapse into One.  Since your "physical body" or more accurately the "idea of your physical body" is still there, you are God Consciousness through finite form.  But there is no sense of the ego as it is dead dead dead...

To be completely formless is the expiring of the finite form into pure formless consciousness.   Ego death and the death of the idea of your physical form.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

 

Do yourself a favor and forget all the spiritual mumbo jumbo. They are at best a kids rendering of its philosophical origins, and more often than not just plain nonsense and highly misleading wordgames.

You are right in that too much concept can get one lost in it and thus miss out on direct experience.   But at the same time conceptual understanding can be helpful in leading to awakening.   It did for me.  So i would take caution in telling one to forego concept.  While it is not actual it still can help point one that is doing the work to find Truth.

[Inliytened1]

45 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Yeah I'm definitely not saying to skip the conceptual understanding. It can be very powerful and I myself have walked a largely contemplative path (i.e. jnana). So I'm a fan, if it's the right fit for someone.

I just think it's a bad idea to just take it on from the spiritual masses, as it were. Because most of what you'll hear out there is garbage.

My advice for conceptual understanding is to come back down to earth and study and contemplate some serious sources instead of internet clubs. No offense to anyone here, just trying to get my point across.

I hear ya man.  Yeah an internet forum is never gonna compare to a spiritual school because there are so many trolls that show up spitting misinformation.   

Hence the purge....??

We hope to solidify this comminity into a solid learning place where one can study Truth and not be deterred by deluded folks.  Or those that just don't have the full picture and can mislead..  But yeah - it ain't an easy task :)?

[Endangered-EGO]

So again. There are 3 things for me. The formless (like the nothingness, infinity and more), being the ego, and just being the observation and being laid back in trance/flow and just letting things happen. For example right now, I am just observing myself typing this. I hear my voice, I feel my fingers tiping it, but I am not doing this. It s like being in a deep meditative state where things just are. Then there is the formless. Infinity overshadows ever other perception, but the nothingness feels like dying, and realising there is nothing there.

But I am able to become an observer without perceiving the nothingness in that specific Moment. If I am aware of the nothingness, then sure, but this state can also happen without the intense feeling of dying right?

When I am in a room with a lot of people, I feel their energy and I suffer If I don't go into the trance state of being the observer. No need for the formless. So I was told this was nonduality? Or do I actually need to experience the formless 24/7 first?

I know an enlightened woman, she told me that I am able to switch between duality and nonduality. She can switch from duality to nonduality and the formless within a second, and not have thoughts at all when she wants to. That for me is enlightenment. However She told me the formless isn't needed to go into nonduality. She said if she wants to feel the formless she goes into nonduality first and then into the formless. 

She is basically referring to a state of "Flow/trance" and it really helps me when I am around people. She called that state of pure observation nonduality. Now that's semantics... it helps me.

What do you call the state enlightened people remain in when they are the observer but want to function? They cant stay in the infinity if they want to have thoughts or have a conversation with people...

I am apparently able to enter that state of being the observer, how is that called? I feel it when I see enlightened people, I just sense that they are being the observer, which kind of fills the room with purity... However I feel the people acting a little anxious-weird when I am the observer. (I don't want to make them feel weird though) Its like they look in a mirror while talking to me.