Its not if Trump loses the election, its what happens if he refuses to leave.

[Sempiternity]

To me, the big question in all this is not if Democrats can win the election from Trump, it's what is going to happen when he refuses to honor the results and refuses to leave. Everything he has done so far has pointed to him staying in power no matter what the rules are. Rules do not apply to him. 

From the attached video: 'My question to all Democratic candidates, what is the plan if you win, and the next day Trump claims he's voiding the election because of some 'irregularities he's hearing about'? What do you do when his base 22,000 strong, marches on Washington? What do we do if he doesn't go? Do you really think if Democrats win by a landslide, Republicans will suddenly get rational about math and facts? You think the same Senate that refuses to hear witnesses and acquitted Trump of abuse of power, is going to stop Trump when he calls the election rigged? Who is going to stand up to him, the Attorney General who works for him? The Supreme Court Justices that he appointed? Who is going to make him leave the office when he refuses to leave?'
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Trump: 'President for life. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot some day.”

Trump: 'My people may demand that I stay longer.'

Trump: 'I might remain in the Oval Office at least for 10 or 14 years.”

Trump shared a tweet: “Trump should have 2 yrs added to his 1st term as pay back for time stolen by this corrupt failed coup.”

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Jed Vassallo

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Do you really think if Democrats win by a landslide, Republicans will suddenly get rational about math and facts? You think the same Senate that refuses to hear witnesses and acquitted Trump of abuse of power, is going to stop Trump when he calls the election rigged? Who is going to stand up to him, the Attorney General who works for him? The Supreme Court Justices that he appointed? Who is going to make him leave the office when he refuses to leave?'
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If Democrats win by a landslide and Trump doesn't stand down, that would be a huge escalation at a much higher level than anything Trump has done. I'm not saying that situation is impossible, yet it is an enormous escalation and we can't assume Republicans would go along with him. This situation is on the order of the "Civil War" scenario. Personally, I think it's a low probability, yet not impossible. However, I'd say the small probability is high enough to take some preparations to reduce the probability further.

If it is a close election, I think the probability dramatically increases. 

[Leo Gura]

Bill Maher is feeding the beast with such crap.

[Sempiternity]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Bill Maher is feeding the beast with such crap.

Say what you will about the messenger, the message is sound. Everything Trump has done and said is pointing towards this happening. Guess only time will tell. 

[Deezeetho]

7 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

To me, the big question in all this is not if Democrats can win the election from Trump, it's what is going to happen when he refuses to honor the results and refuses to leave. Everything he has done so far has pointed to him staying in power no matter what the rules are. Rules do not apply to him. 

From the attached video: 'My question to all Democratic candidates, what is the plan if you win, and the next day Trump claims he's voiding the election because of some 'irregularities he's hearing about'? What do you do when his base 22,000 strong, marches on Washington? What do we do if he doesn't go? Do you really think if Democrats win by a landslide, Republicans will suddenly get rational about math and facts? You think the same Senate that refuses to hear witnesses and acquitted Trump of abuse of power, is going to stop Trump when he calls the election rigged? Who is going to stand up to him, the Attorney General who works for him? The Supreme Court Justices that he appointed? Who is going to make him leave the office when he refuses to leave?'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump: 'President for life. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot some day.”

Trump: 'My people may demand that I stay longer.'

Trump: 'I might remain in the Oval Office at least for 10 or 14 years.”

Trump shared a tweet: “Trump should have 2 yrs added to his 1st term as pay back for time stolen by this corrupt failed coup.”

 

 

Why would he leave? He already won. 

It reminds me of Schwarzenegger in pumping iron telling Lou and his father that, he told his mom he already won. its game over. Like Brexit here in the UK. Its done. 

[Leo Gura]

By even entertaining such an idea you start to legitimize it as a possibility.

It's sort of like saying, "Well, what if we bring slavery back?"

No! This is not even on the table so don't put it on the table.

[Sempiternity]

I understand not wanting to put it out there as a possibility. That whole creating reality thing. 

Yet, talking about bringing back slavery is not a fair comparison. That is very much not likely to happen based on all available evidence.

A better comparison would be global environmental collapse due to global warming. Sure it's a possibility that could not happen, but all available evidence points to this being probable almost certain outcome. So....

[Emerald]

That’s not going to happen. And there a more people that dislike Trump than like him to counter-march on Washington.

 

 

[Sempiternity]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That’s not going to happen. And there a more people that dislike Trump than like him to counter-march on Washington.

Sure, but when the newly self appointed Commander In Chief for life declares martial law and sends the military and militarized police to stop any and all the protests against him, what are you going to do then?  

[Apparition of Jack]

Just now, Jed Vassallo said:

Sure, but when the newly self appointed Commander In Chief for life declares martial law and sends the military and militarized police to stop any and all the protests against him, what are you going to do then?  

Why would the military listen to him? Or the judges? Or the rest of the non-executive US government? There are many people in the Pentagon who have no great love for Trump, not to mention the brazen illegality of such actions. What's Trump going to do to get them to obey? Sick Ben Shapiro on them?

[Sempiternity]

Why does the military, judges and the rest of the government listen to him now? Cause he holds the highest label of power? Same thing with being self appointed president for life (like his buddy Putin). Military and government do what they're told, they follow orders. 

 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Jed Vassallo Maybe in fantasy land they do, but in the real world the government doesn't work like that. Separation of Powers is one of the fundamental principles of the US government, and exists precisely to stop the sort of scenario you're describing from coming to pass. Remember: the US military is loyal to the constitution, not the president. If anything if Trump tried to pull something like that he'd be more likely toppled by the military than listened to by them.

[Sempiternity]

Doesn't seem like adherence to the Constitution, separation of powers, and governmental checks and balances have been working out to well lately. Remember the head of the Justice Department works for Trump. 

I see it as it's not about the way things are supposed to be, or how they have always been in the past, but the way they are now, which is a totally corrupt government full of criminals that care nothing for law, the constitution, or how are government has run since its conception. They are in power and will not give it up. 


 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Jed Vassallo Trump lost the Senate by a huge margin in 2018, has officially been impeached and was acquitted by only two votes (TWO), has had some of his most egregious policies shot down or reversed, and continues to operate a revolving door administration of lackeys-turned-enemies. This is nothing to say of the American people themselves, who are far too conscious and humanistic to let a military crackdown fly in their country.

Yes, Trump has a lot of ardent supporters, I'm not denying that, but they're in the minority, and their strength is a short-term schizophrenic rage against changing realities. Trump will try to harness this energy to maintain power, but the odds are stacked against him. Spending too much time on the media can make it seem like an authoritarian takeover is coming any day now, but you have to be careful that you're not just being sold alarmism either. Without wanting to downplay the risk that Trump or his supporters currently represent, they are still in many ways paper tigers.

[Sempiternity]

Fair enough. Good points. 

 

[Deezeetho]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

That’s not going to happen. And there a more people that dislike Trump than like him to counter-march on Washington.

 

 

And yet,  he keeps winning. He impeachment was a stupid move. It failed. More moderate voters see the nonsense and will surely vote his way. More importantly, people are inherently selfish. The economy is good and unemployment has been the best in a century. There's no chance people who even hate Trump risk incompetence taking office. Four more years. 

[Deezeetho]

4 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Jed Vassallo Trump lost the Senate by a huge margin in 2018, has officially been impeached and was acquitted by only two votes (TWO), has had some of his most egregious policies shot down or reversed, and continues to operate a revolving door administration of lackeys-turned-enemies. This is nothing to say of the American people themselves, who are far too conscious and humanistic to let a military crackdown fly in their country.

Yes, Trump has a lot of ardent supporters, I'm not denying that, but they're in the minority, and their strength is a short-term schizophrenic rage against changing realities. Trump will try to harness this energy to maintain power, but the odds are stacked against him. Spending too much time on the media can make it seem like an authoritarian takeover is coming any day now, but you have to be careful that you're not just being sold alarmism either. Without wanting to downplay the risk that Trump or his supporters currently represent, they are still in many ways paper tigers.

Maybe but four more years. Brexit got down played. Its here. You can women march. You can do a impeachment hoax. You can do more fake news. Winners focus on winning. For all his rhetoric, trolling, and rants, the man has many faults but he knows how to win. Its something the dems could learn a thing or two about. 

[Sempiternity]

@Deezeetho  Please spread your rhetoric bullshit elsewhere. It's not welcome here. Who fucking cares about 'winning'. It's not a game.

 

[Inliytened1]

@Deezeetho. Let's not derail the thread.  The OP was not about whether or not Trump would win - but whether he would refuse to leave office if he lost.

@Jed Vassallo  I wouldn't worry about that happening, for the reasons others stated above.  We still have laws in this country.  He thinks he is above the law now, yes.  But that's because he is in office.  Once he loses (if he loses) he is not in office anymore.   

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Deezeetho said:

And yet,  he keeps winning. He impeachment was a stupid move. It failed. More moderate voters see the nonsense and will surely vote his way. More importantly, people are inherently selfish. The economy is good and unemployment has been the best in a century. There's no chance people who even hate Trump risk incompetence taking office. Four more years. 

I think you misinterpreted what I was responding to.

The OP was saying that Trump will try y to break the rules and try to stay in office even if he loses or if he wins a second term and his two terms are up.

And I told him that that’s not going to happen. And if he tries to, there would be far more people against that illegal move and not for it.

Also, impeachment as a process, is a joke. Because of the partisan stakes and the need for a 2/3 majority vote in the senate to successfully impeach, it’s basically guaranteed that no president will ever be impeached because it’s unlikely that any political party will ever have 2/3 of Congress.

And if a president were ever in danger of that, they could just pull a Nixon.

So, Trump certainly violated the emoluments clause of the constitution.

But because establishment Democrats like Trump in that they can use his corruption to mask their own and look like the good guys by contrast, they likely don’t actually want to get rid of him. So, they make a case for impeachment that’s impeachable but not very strong... likely because Trump was looking into Joe Biden’s corruption.

So, the impeachment is mostly for show to please their constituents and perhaps to obscure view of DNC corruption, as they knew Trump would be acquitted in the Senate and that it would give him a ratings boost following the acquittal.