Does Spirituality take me away from actuality?

[Preety_India]

I have tried dabbling into spirituality for a while and it seems a bit elusive to me. 

If I have to elaborate I could give this example to explain exactly what I feel about it. 

If someone told me that I am already living in a glass bubble and that I won't be able to hear what others are saying, I might actually start pretending that I can't hear when someone is speaking to me. 

This is how I feel about spirituality. 

This fear sometimes holds me back from exploring spirituality further. 

Do you think that your spirituality is taking you away from actuality and would that be fair for you to experience? 

Also I'd like to know how you integrate your spirituality with psyche and general psychology. Does it interfere with your understanding of human nature and human structures and how do you deal with that. Do you go back and forth between the reality and the spiritual perception of things that you hold in your mind. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Preety_India

[SoonHei]

unsure what the question really means

but i just want to say

god bless you and have a wonderful Friday!  

[inFlow]

@Preety_India Everything is relative. Being spiritual or being a drug addict is the same. If you go from being un-spiritual to spiritual its a huge shift from your now living reality or as you call it actuality. If anything changes it feels weird, not right, change your school, change your career, change the country you live in and boom you feel weird, differend actuality. Same goes to spirituality, it changes your actuality. Once you understand it you still do feel the weirdness of it but now you are conscious that it locks a person in one spot like a paradigm lock.

Being spiritual and exploring consciousness is also leading to ACTUALLY understanding how the mind works, if you understand it very well you understand other peoples behaviour. Lets say that by being very conscious you understand how reality works, you understand the mechanisms which govern people, its as if you no longer see a video game but you see the code behind it. It can become booring and scary in a way because you are somewhat loosing your joy of not knowing what the hell is actually going on in reality. Lets say you just know too much. But that goes full circle, you go back being joyfull. Thats the magic of spirituality, you think that your going crazy, but then boom everything is beautiful again. Be sure you want to take the path. Its full of shit and you will step on it way more often than you think. Its like the part in the matrix where the pills are given, be very sure you are choosing the one you really want.

You might not understand what is writen here, im not a native english speaker, but I hope im pointing you to something you are asking. Have a great weekend though!

[Red-White-Light]

@Preety_India I don't really understand what you are talking about but in response to the title, spirituality doesn't take you away from actuality because the more actuality you experience the more you realize godliness.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Johnny5 said:

If the key problem is self-deception, then the key solution is self-honesty.

It's not "spiritual", it's just getting real about shit.

 

Yes in practice spirituality is the biggest cesspool of self-deception you could imagine. I'd say that's a very good thing to be aware of. If you can see that, then you're already ahead of them all.

You got brains. On point 

 

[mandyjw]

I tried to cut myself off from the past, my desires and use spirituality as a bypass for all that stuff, in my belief that the present moment was all there was. I ended up going far enough in that direction, that I basically "vomited up" my issues and past trauma, seeing through it as a story that was perfectly designed and connected... with the present moment. It all goes full circle. It's all one. Never fear of neglecting one in favor of the other. 

 

[Leo Gura]

If spirituality is taking you away from actuality, you're doing it backwards.

Maybe trying pursuing actuality and you will find yourself being spiritual.

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I have tried dabbling into spirituality for a while and it seems a bit elusive to me. 

If I have to elaborate I could give this example to explain exactly what I feel about it. 

If someone told me that I am already living in a glass bubble and that I won't be able to hear what others are saying, I might actually start pretending that I can't hear when someone is speaking to me. 

This is how I feel about spirituality. 

This fear sometimes holds me back from exploring spirituality further. 

Do you think that your spirituality is taking you away from actuality and would that be fair for you to experience? 

Also I'd like to know how you integrate your spirituality with psyche and general psychology. Does it interfere with your understanding of human nature and human structures and how do you deal with that. Do you go back and forth between the reality and the spiritual perception of things that you hold in your mind. 

 

 

@Preety_India

 

Psychology is horizontal

Spirituality is vertical

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Don't try to think of spirituality as an abstract concept or state you are trying to achieve, spirituality is present at all times no matter the circumstance. Like Leo said, spirituality should be identical to actuality. Distinguish in your awareness what is made up/conceptual (thought stories, self-identity) and what is actual (what is present in your awareness no matter what your thoughts are about it). And the closer you get to what is actual the closer you are to spirituality. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[remember]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Psychology is horizontal

Spirituality is vertical

what makes you think that? why do you think spirituality is vertical?

did you ever question the spirituality you were indoctrinated into? naturally we all might have the tendency to look up to someone in that sense there is always someone above us, in fact as long as you can see how above the person below you is, verticality should not be a spiritual problem. verticality and horizontality are phenomena as content of psychology and spirituality, and verticality and horizontality can also be structures of both - there is no reason to say one is like this and the other is like that. the attempt of psychology to find a scientific approach of course tries to make psychology more horizontal but ask @Serotoninluv if scientific psychology is horizontal and you‘ll probably get a „no“. what makes all horizontal psychology horizontal is spirituality, what makes all vertical spirituality vertical is its psychology  

[Inliytened1]

@Preety_India take out your hand and stare at it.  Acknowledge its presence.  That right there.  That's Truth.  Truth is actual.  And you can mystically become it.  You are it now, but its becoming directly conscious of it that is Being.  Pure Being is mystical.  Its Truth.  Enlightenment.

[Forestluv]

35 minutes ago, remember said:

the attempt of psychology to find a scientific approach of course tries to make psychology more horizontal but ask @Serotoninluv if scientific psychology is horizontal and you‘ll probably get a „no“. what makes all horizontal psychology horizontal is spirituality, what makes all vertical spirituality vertical is its psychology  

I wouldn't use a model of horizontal vs. vertical to describe the relationship between science and spirituality. I'm much more integrated than that. My mind likes to make connections with the science within spirituality and the spirituality within science - such that the duality of science vs. spirituality is interconnected.  They can be completely different, completely the same or an infinite number of connections. . . That's just the way my mind likes to work. Others can use a horizontal vs. vertical model if it works for them. For me, that is too much separation and too simple. 

[Aaron p]

@Preety_India the key understanding is that spirituality is...not anything, really. To treat spirituality as something that you believe is a trap. Spirituality is the art of not believing anything I feel. 

Nothing can replace reality. Not even the idea that reality exists, can replace what actually exists. Spirituality, for me, can never remove me from further from Actuality because my spirituality is completely invisible and non existent. Only ideas can remove you from Actuality. If "spirituality" is removing me from reality, then my spirituality is not fully invisible. It is an idea. The only real spiritualist, is the only one who is not a spiritualist lol

[Nahm]

@Preety_India What’s the difference between spirituality, quantum mechanics, reality, a garden hose, tweezers, and you?

(When / if a thought / response arises...label it “thought” and shoot it in the waste paper basket like a crumpled piece of paper, and then maybe consider reading the question again ♥️)

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, remember said:

what makes you think that? why do you think spirituality is vertical?

did you ever question the spirituality you were indoctrinated into? naturally we all might have the tendency to look up to someone in that sense there is always someone above us, in fact as long as you can see how above the person below you is, verticality should not be a spiritual problem. verticality and horizontality are phenomena as content of psychology and spirituality, and verticality and horizontality can also be structures of both - there is no reason to say one is like this and the other is like that. the attempt of psychology to find a scientific approach of course tries to make psychology more horizontal but ask @Serotoninluv if scientific psychology is horizontal and you‘ll probably get a „no“. what makes all horizontal psychology horizontal is spirituality, what makes all vertical spirituality vertical is its psychology  

@Serotoninluv @remember

You are right. I don't think we should exist in power hierarchy when we think of our spirituality, if thats what you mean't? 

Also, Yes. I don't know what to expect yet from being on the actualized forum. But, I am not part of any spiritual school, I am a student of truth. Also, I know little and I am a life long learner. 

I agree its more complex than simply have spirituality being vertical and psychology being horizontal. All models are relative and limited, yet can be useful even if somewhat inaccurate to how we see reality once we have developed further and understand the whole inner work maze of life. 

I got the model from a book about the relationship between western psychology and eastern spirituality.

 

For me,  spirituality being vertical has to do with letting go and transcending, the enlightening aspects of spiritual practice. Which of course is more nuanced. developed through meditation. beingness.

And the horizontal has to do with our ego and how it interacts in relationship to other. So, shadow work, working on your neurotic symptoms, self image. This involves talk therapy, counciling. intellect.

East - Vertical work

West - Horizontal Work

 

I know all dualities collapse. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Thought Art

[Forestluv]

@Thought Art That's all good. I'm not saying those models are wrong. If they resonate with you, go for it. . . My mind isn't oriented to model it like that. Different minds model in different ways. 

[SOUL]

It seems to me that over time 'spirituality' has come to be interpreted as something extra or separate from the physical world but I think that perspective has been purposefully portrayed as such out of convenience from both who endorse or critique it yet is woefully inaccurate.

Don't view it as separate and something you can or cannot 'do', it's a natural expression of our conscious life and even if one doesn't know they are doing it or thinks they aren't....they are doing it anyway.... we can't not have a 'spiritual' aspect to our life, it's happening.

 

 

[Pacific Sage]

12 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 

If someone told me that I am already living in a glass bubble and that I won't be able to hear what others are saying, I might actually start pretending that I can't hear when someone is speaking to me. 

 

I get what you are saying and once you start repeating that pretense of not hearing when someone is speaking for long, placebo takes over and you ll stop hearing.

Sounds to me like you are having doubts on the path of spirituality and some day in the future you ll regret going on this path when you see something that once attracted you of other actuality.

To know other actualities would give perspective of what other perceptions has in store for your life. For me personally spiral Dynamics was great to understand this and be thankful for where I am. It also set a path and a goal to work towards. Maslow's hierarchy is good too. 

For me once I understood different psyches it was a no brainer to choose the path of a good and deep life.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Pacific Sage

[remember]

7 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Serotoninluv @remember

You are right. I don't think we should exist in power hierarchy when we think of our spirituality, if thats what you mean't? 

Also, Yes. I don't know what to expect yet from being on the actualized forum. But, I am not part of any spiritual school, I am a student of truth. Also, I know little and I am a life long learner. 

I agree its more complex than simply have spirituality being vertical and psychology being horizontal. All models are relative and limited, yet can be useful even if somewhat inaccurate to how we see reality once we have developed further and understand the whole inner work maze of life. 

I got the model from a book about the relationship between western psychology and eastern spirituality.

 

For me,  spirituality being vertical has to do with letting go and transcending, the enlightening aspects of spiritual practice. Which of course is more nuanced. developed through meditation. beingness.

And the horizontal has to do with our ego and how it interacts in relationship to other. So, shadow work, working on your neurotic symptoms, self image. This involves talk therapy, counciling. intellect.

East - Vertical work

West - Horizontal Work

 

I know all dualities collapse. 

that’s a really interesting view - notice how this is about how energy is directed in both spiritual systems. it works as long as you talk about the individual. bring it into a more dynamic setting, include group ego, and you get to the point where most people above blue get wondering, if that might still be correct. if they are taking spiral dynamics as a map.

spiral dynamics in some sense brings this together again. if you integrate this into a more dynamic vision. vertical vs horizontal is def one aspect of western psychology which sometimes is not taken into account enough in psychological science (this is possibly so because of political reasons) - even though you could also say: parts of asia are more blue=more vertical and western society is more orange=vertical+horizontal and green=more horizontal and then in second tier that gets mixed up all again. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by remember

[wavydude]

I had this thought that the most unspiritual thing you can do is get into spirituality and I think there's a lot of truth to it.