Happiness is NOT your nature. A message for those in pain.

[seeking_brilliance]

8 hours ago, Preetom said:

I'd question even that.

Basically the twisted irony is, you are forever deprived of happiness once you form an image or idea of happiness.

 

lol yeah, as I was typing it I realized that "unburdened" is a condition I was applying.  But I still like what I typed so i kept it  

Edited February 6, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

These are simply brief respite/pauses in the constant static of suffering and pain of bearing the burden of being embodied.

 

Suffering and pain are not constant at all if there can be things in between. If those are conditions, so is suffering. You are created in the image (imagination) of God (you). Imagine what you want. Train your brain to only notice and attention to the conditions you want to experience. That's your freedom. The magic of appreciating and fully feeling amazing feelings is that you get more of them. What are you afraid of? 

[Robert Leavitt]

@Preetom I can see why you would be labeled a nihilist.  I agree that there are things in life that can cause great distress.  I agree that setting happiness as a goal is .. not a great idea really.  It depends on where it comes from, if there are core beliefs that would lead an individual to belief that they are entitled to happiness, then they are going to be disappointed time and time again. 

That being said, setting an intention to bring peace, joy, happiness or whatever other label you want to give it into your life is not a bad idea.  It's the process that is important.  I focus on being kind and caring towards others.  I focus on setting aside my selfish wants and desires, and try to be grateful and appreciative for what I have...this in turns lead to a state which is far better than the word "happiness" can describe.

It's not about me and my own personal wants anymore.  It's about trying to make a positive impact on the lives of others.  That's where things can become amazing.  I just do stuff...whatever is in front of me, I leave the results up to God (or the Universe if you will).

Makes for a better day.

[MrDmitriiV]

@Preetom I call that nonsense. 

The reason everybody is longing for Love, is because their souls are longing to go Home. Aka Godhead mode or whatever you wanna call it. Deep down, everyone knows there's a better state to be in. 

You can either let go and go ahead with the flow of the sewer (delusion/giving up on growth...) or let go and flow towards Truth/Love. 

The second path might be harder in the short term, but in the long run it's much more rewarding then the first one. 

On 2/5/2020 at 5:27 AM, Preetom said:

Happiness and wellbeing is NOT your nature or something you deserve.

Projection 101.

Again, letting go can go both ways, healthy and unhealthy. 

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Please be more mindful of the racial terms sir, even when personifying the ego. Thanks. 

Please excuse my unrefined, poor jokes sir 

 

[Consilience]

Imagine finding a source of happiness that transcends all states of experience, including depression, anxiety and suffering. Your original post seems to be excluding this possibility, however speaking anecdotally, such a possibility exists. 

[Petals]

Ramana Maharshi as you probably all know always pointed out that happiness is your true nature. since 'you' are truly happy in deep sleep in which the world is not present, happiness must be intrinsic to what you are and can never come from the world.

@mandyjw

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

If those are conditions, so is suffering.

suffering is not a condition, rather, all conditions are suffering simply because they are conditioned and transitory. that's what @Preetom tried to say I guess.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Petals

[Commodent]

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

[Preetom]

@Petals You're WAY eloquent with words than me. Can't thank you enough for your insightful comments in this thread. Also you're one of the very few people I've seen in this forum who really gets the essence of self inquiry and the core of Ramana's message. Thanks again.

And reading through other's interesting comments it seems almost every mystical tradition addressed this primal human dilemma of constantly searching for happiness and yet not having the capacity to make itself fulfilled

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Petals said:

Ramana Maharshi as you probably all know always pointed out that happiness is your true nature. since 'you' are truly happy in deep sleep in which the world is not present, happiness must be intrinsic to what you are and can never come from the world.

@mandyjw

suffering is not a condition, rather, all conditions are suffering simply because they are conditioned and transitory. that's what @Preetom tried to say I guess.

He also said that I am "projecting the world", creating and consuming it all at once. So if there is no inner and no outer, how can happiness NOT come from my inner resonance and acceptance of outer conditions. 

The conditions are not suffering themselves, the lack of acceptance of those conditions as aspects of the self is suffering. 

It's really tricky not to cut off and reject an aspect of one's Self and not to turn some sort of conditionless state into another ideal of the mind. 

Is there an underlying fear that by embracing something, one will become lost and venture away from the "safety" of some sort of conditionless state? 

[Petals]

@mandyjw yes, thank you for reminding me of this. the transitoriness itself is not suffering, but resisting it and wanting permanence is.

resistance is suffering. and above all the resistance to the shining forth of the Self.

@Preetom that's kind. I'm trying my best.?

 

[Preetom]

12 hours ago, mandyjw said:

He also said that I am "projecting the world", creating and consuming it all at once. So if there is no inner and no outer, how can happiness NOT come from my inner resonance and acceptance of outer conditions. 

The conditions are not suffering themselves, the lack of acceptance of those conditions as aspects of the self is suffering. 

It's really tricky not to cut off and reject an aspect of one's Self and not to turn some sort of conditionless state into another ideal of the mind. 

Is there an underlying fear that by embracing something, one will become lost and venture away from the "safety" of some sort of conditionless state? 

We can have this hair splitting tennis match back and forth endlessly but I tend to prefer deep inquiry experience and higher lines of reasoning instead of buying into things regarding this topic.

This might be viewed as dry, theoretical non dual jargon from a nondual 'snob' (Wink wink Mr European Osho drunk on cheap Vodka  )

The Self is One, whole, nondual. It doesn't have aspects/parts/dimension/ascension/decent, not at it's essence; only appears to have these superimposition in oversight. Look at your experience. How many selves does one have? The dilemma is that the ignorant self can 'think' it has parts like it's hands, emotions, circle of love etc. But upon inquiry all such fancy burns away.

The Self is not a thing or an aspect. So It cannot integrate/disintegrate/cut off/accept/reject/mingle with other 'things' whatever the hell that thing is. Its literally an oxymoron to talk about the Self/Reality/Absolute in these terms. In fact any term ever uttered is a misrepresentation of the Self. And yet words and pointers like One, nondual, Consciousness, bodyless, Separate and untouched from everything, unharmable, imperturbable, existence, deathless, changeless, blissful, timeless, ever present are frequently used and regarded as the most effective way to hint towards this topic. Why?

Only to counter the ingrained, ignorant and unquestioned believes, assumptions and feeling signatures of regarding the self 'I' as  body, living in a world, made of matter, going through change, bound in birth and death time, fragile, unsafe, unhappy, affected by its surroundings, bound, being a separate, unfulfilled thing which needs to accumulate goodies outside of itself to complete itself..so on and so forth

Anyway enough nondual jargon. I don't wanna disturb or distort any more people.

PS: @mandyjw please don't misunderstand this comment as an attempt to argue with you or anyone else. Just wrote it up a complimentary for this thread like everyone else is welcome to put in their input

good day

Edited February 7, 2020 by Preetom