A warning to those trying to reach enlightenment through psychedelics.

[PenguinPablo]

I'm not here to claim any sort of attainments and even then I hardly understand the nuance involved to properly characterize enlightenment stages. However, trying to desperately achieve these higher states through a magic bullet like psychedelics is bound to backfire since this lack of patience to try to expedite this process seems antithetical to attaining proper wisdom to me. You may get some knowledge for sure but it will be tainted since you don't understand the ins and outs fully. I forgot who said it, but its more important to know how to get to the top of the mountain, in addition to the massive perspective difference you'll have from walking all the miles to the peaks you reach. If you're placed at the top, you will get a lot of things but it will not be as useful as you think without the wisdom and perspective gained along the way. You can get fast cars, money, etc... but what was sacrificed? With psychs we're obviously dealing with a much more subtle level of this, but progression on the path and consequently acquisition of wisdom is gained by being patient, by being a human being, and not deluding yourself out of desperation to get "there" or get more "enlightened".  

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Why don't you apply the same logic to meditation or driving a car?

Every time a new technology comes out some caveman will say, "But it's better to do it the old fashioned way. More pure."

So then by this logic you should wipe your ass with your hands. Sure, you could use TP, but what have you sacrificed? Why are you deluding yourself out of desperation? Why don't you patiently wash the shit off your hands each time? This will toughen you up. It will make you a read man. What kind of Buddha are you if you cannot stand a bit of shit between your fingernails? Only a desperate and greedy person would seek a better way. It's bound to backfire. This is antithetical to being human. God wants you to wipe you ass with your hangs like the Buddha did. My guru wiped his ass with his hands therefore so should everyone else. For sure your knowledge of your ass will be tainted if you don't get the full experience of wiping it with your hands. You will not understand the ins and outs of ass-wiping fully. Your technique will be bad. The gods will be displeased and not give you blessings. The gods gave you two hands for a reason, one to eat your food and the other to wipe your ass.

[Raptorsin7]

@PenguinPablo This is nonsense. Might as well not do any spiritual practices because that's cheating and real men get enlightenment through just fucking doing it.

By ignoring psycs you're literally making it so much harder on yourself to progress. You're free to do it the hard, stupid way. But don't say we didn't tell you so.

[Derek White]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Every time a new technology comes out some caveman will say, "But it's better to do it the old fashioned way. More pure."

Hahaha

[Chumbimba]

@Leo Gura damn that really put it in perspective 

[exhale]

There is merit to the idea that there is more value in the journey, than the destination.  Not to say that expediting the process is right or wrong.  Ease up friends @Leo Gura @Raptorsin7 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raptorsin7]

@exhale What is the point of spirituality to you? Why does anyone do any of this? 

[Chumbimba]

@exhale There isn't actually a journey because everything leads to now. Everything is now whether you're doing 5-meo or meditation

[PenguinPablo]

@Leo Gura  Information viewed in meditative states, or psychedelics, are not the fruits in themselves but rather how we relate to such phenomena which takes time no matter what. Even if Michael Jordan trained you intensely for a year in a private gym, you still would not be as good as Kobe after a couple of years versus his decades of mastery and nuanced understanding of basketball across decades on the court. The learning happens on the court too. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by PenguinPablo

[Forestluv]

In 300 years there will be a new method. Perhaps an AI Insta-Quant that has the power of 100 psychedelic trips. 

Some will say trying to attain states through a magic bullet like the Insta-Quant is bound to backfire since trying to expedite the process does not allow true wisdom. To learn the ins and outs of wisdom, someone should take the slow path of psychedelics over a year. Taking a year may seem like an eternity compared to the Insta-Quant, yet the slow path of psychedelics allows one to accumulate nuggets of wisdom as they trudge up to the mountain top. 

[PenguinPablo]

@Serotoninluv Fair enough. I am open enough to try psychedelics and in fact find them quite fascinating but I mostly just try to go by what intuitively feels most true to me and my heart. That's how I guide myself and for the most part that is how I decide to take my next step. I will probably do more again at some point in the future. I have nothing against them but am afraid for people and their internal state, what they expect to get from them. 

 

@Chumbimba 

That's bullshit. If you think realizing nonduality is enough I got some news for you. It is a milestone for sure, but often people mistake it as the final destination when it's not even damn close, at the least through buddhist maps. Typically people who claim this, including teachers are using is as a massive defense mechanism to reject the rest of life. Life is more nuanced than this and much more integrated. Again, I'm not perfect by any means and have massive issues to work out on the psychological end of my humanness. Still, wanted to point out what I've noticed.  

Edited February 5, 2020 by PenguinPablo

[Forestluv]

@PenguinPablo Yes, there certainly are challenges and traps with psychedelics. It takes practice and skill. 

20+ years of my spiritual path was all substance-free. There are positives to it. 

 

[Corpus]

Psychedelics are a useful adjunct in the work and can allow the tip-toe steps the chemical-free modalities may bestow to become strides. Probably the most pertinent benefit is they permit one to entertain notions beyond a purely intellectual level, making those "A-ha!" moments more frequent, whilst also clearly allowing one to experience the limits of ones own cognitive faculties.  

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Serotoninluv Fair enough. I am open enough to try psychedelics and in fact find them quite fascinating but I mostly just try to go by what intuitively feels most true to me and my heart. 

 

 

Go with your heart brother - afterall you are Love :)❤

[SgtPepper]

I am biased.

Psychedelics were pretty much my gateway to the spiritual path. I found meditation after trying mushrooms. I was always curious, but mushrooms really opened the door experientially which is what I really needed.

I still find tremendous value in 'sober' spiritual practices and do them. Despite what people say about psychedelics being temporary; in my experience, the general feeling and core wisdom sticks with me. 

It can work like a "rare candy" in Pokemon. 

In one way, I know what you mean because some people can have a weird reaction to it. However, what I have noticed is that people who are spiritually inclined and have an open mind seem to have no negative reactions with it.

[pluto]

Psychedelics just accelerate your consciousness temporarily to force you to completely surrender to the present moment which simply shows you what you are capable of yourself and what you actually do yourself and the psychedelic simply opens the door for you and does nothing more.

When you can master to generate this surrendering completely to the present moment all the time, the tool is no longer of use.

Its just a permission slip we use that works for us because it is aligned with our belief systems, there are no right or wrongs.

 

 

[Mattie]

@PenguinPablo Its your spiritual path so you decide for yourself what is the best way. 

[ElvisN]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So then by this logic you should wipe your ass with your hands. Sure, you could use TP, but what have you sacrificed? Why are you deluding yourself out of desperation? Why don't you patiently wash the shit off your hands each time? This will toughen you up. It will make you a read man. What kind of Buddha are you if you cannot stand a bit of shit between your fingernails? Only a desperate and greedy person would seek a better way. It's bound to backfire. This is antithetical to being human. God wants you to wipe you ass with your hangs like the Buddha did. My guru wiped his ass with his hands therefore so should everyone else. For sure your knowledge of your ass will be tainted if you don't get the full experience of wiping it with your hands. You will not understand the ins and outs of ass-wiping fully. Your technique will be bad. The gods will be displeased and not give you blessings. The gods gave you two hands for a reason, one to eat your food and the other to wipe your ass.

@Leo Gura LMAO. Haven't laughed like that in a while.

[luckieluuke]

My take: they´re great but once you get the message; hang up! IE I use it rarely to realign myself and get inspired but these experience is not "truth" since its a my limited body experiencing and interpreting limitlessness, and there is danger in that since the ego can use it to it´s advantage once you sober up. And I try to not let it be a crutch to my path.

[student]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@exhale What is the point of spirituality to you? Why does anyone do any of this? 

You can't know spirituality without knowing your journey.

 

Taking psychedelics is of course part of the journey of the one who takes it. How it will unfold, will it lead to ultimate enlightenment? What is the intention behind taking psychedelics?

Everyone has their path. Many people can speak wisdom, but the "ultimate" are they still after it? And what is that anyway?

Everything needs to be surrendered and vanished. Everything that has to do with a self, with a reality, with a personality.

You take psychedelics because? You wanna escape something, discover, know, understand, or it is for wisdom? It can be healing. But that doesn't have anything to do with that which is above all.

Blabbering wisdom is the same as blabbering nonsense. One should go for the ultimate. If psychedelics jumps in one's path, then it can only be followed.

Taking psychedelics may be a turning point in your life, a big eye opener. Even more than that. But it is just a part of your life's course.

Edited February 5, 2020 by student