How do I take responsibility for my actions and also surrender to the will of God?

[assx95]

I'm having a conflict, between taking responsibility for my actions and constructing my own meaning in my life, and working towards a goal vs Surrendering to whatever impulses that want to act out, and surrendering to the will of God. 

How do I resolve this conflict 

[Gili Trawangan]

When you take responsibility that is the will of God.

[Rebecca Kalamata]

Taking responsibility means that you made a choice. One cannot avoid making choices. If I reach out and pet my cat he will wake up and then walk on my keyboard. If I leave him be I will be able to read and write more in this forum. If he wakes up then I will listen to a Leo video instead of spending time in the forum. There are consequences for either choice. Consequences are not punishments. They are what happens as the result of a choice. Better to be as conscious as possible in choosing. More consciousness = being more the cause of consequences. Less consciousness = being more the effect of consequences.

More consciousness = more awareness of All That Is/GOD. 

Taking responsibility has nothing to do with guilt or self-blame. The logic of many forms of Christianity is peculiar. Count the galaxies and then reconsider that a Supreme Being is judging. Surrendering to impulses will happen. 

Read Marcus Aurelius. It's only 99 pages and an easy read considering that a Roman emperor of the 2nd century wrote it. Leo has mentioned it in at least one video and he highly recommends it. You will find guidance in this little book.

Keep watching/listening to Leo's videos. Sometimes I think that people are not doing so and are spending time in the Forum instead. I think I'll pet my cat. Adios!

[phoenixrising]

I think part of it is realizing control is completely fictional. Once that concept is fully grasped it might make a difference. Working on this myself so I can't say for sure. 

[Bill W]

14 minutes ago, Rebecca Kalamata said:

Read Marcus Aurelius.

Do you mean his book meditations? It's brilliant. Beyond brilliant.

In terms of God's Will. Have you had a think about what that might be for you? 

16 hours ago, Gili Trawangan said:

When you take responsibility that is the will of God.

I like the emphasis on taking responsibility, but sorry to be a bit of an arse, but what about a mass murderer? Someone might walk into a school and shoot the place up and take responsibility for everything they did. 

[hyruga]

21 hours ago, assx95 said:

I'm having a conflict, between taking responsibility for my actions and constructing my own meaning in my life, and working towards a goal vs Surrendering to whatever impulses that want to act out, and surrendering to the will of God. 

How do I resolve this conflict 

I don't think there is a conflict at all between constructing own meaning and surrending to God. 

You have to tell us how and why you get a conflict in the first place in order for us to help you.

Edited February 4, 2020 by hyruga

[assx95]

@Rebecca Kalamata I love your cat. 

[tsuki]

9 hours ago, Bill W said:

but sorry to be a bit of an arse, but what about a mass murderer? Someone might walk into a school and shoot the place up and take responsibility for everything they did. 

You weren't asking me, but I find this question irresistible.

The only rational reason to perform acts of violence stems from extreme lack and separation, where you believe that in order to survive, you must kill. Mass shootings are acts of twisted celebration of brutality for people that are through with their own life. They are a warped form of asking for help, regardless of what the murderer thinks. Without a functioning heart, the mind is a knife wielded by an angry 3 year old.

Hearts are never evil, they are always hurt/broken - so yes, a mass murderer that takes responsibility (deliberate intent) for what he/she does is the will of God. Mass shootings will keep occurring until we, as a society, start taking responsibility for existence of "evil people" and look into the roots of how hearts are broken.

[Bill W]

Interesting. I didn't think of it like that.

Well what about this.

Two elements of taking responsibility could be (a) murderer going to take responsibility for terrorising the Muslim community by shooting everyone in the mosque and (b) murderer now massacred everyone in the mosque and take full responsibility for their actions.

Would you say (a) and (b) are Gods Will or just (b) ?

Edited February 4, 2020 by Bill W

[Gili Trawangan]

@Bill W The way I see it, everything is God's will.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Bill W said:

Two elements of taking responsibility could be (a) murderer going to take responsibility for terrorising the Muslim community by shooting everyone in the mosque and (b) murderer now massacred everyone in the mosque and take full responsibility for their actions.

Would you say (a) and (b) are Gods Will or just (b) ?

I think that these "two elements of taking responsibility " are artificially created (not actual), so I'm going to say both (a) and (b).

The mind-content of the murderer is not the primary cause IMO. What is, is the broken heart and constant suffering they are going through that led them to believe (attachment to a thought) that they have to be violent to "fight" for their survival. A "The world is brutal, so I have to be brutal or I will die" sort of thing. "If I'm not the top dog in this place, I will suffer", not realizing how much they suffer already because they forgot or never experienced unconditional love.

In this context (which is partial, obviously), the God's will is the will to survive which is biological.
The individual person has the capacity to choose their own thoughts, but it is SOOO DIFFICULT if you are constantly suffering.
This suffering is not always just a lack of wisdom, some people are traumatized by their environment (culture, parents, etc).

The most important question though is, how does a suffering person come to a conclusion to introspect and change his/her ways? That is the question that points into direction of the soul, the "thing" that mediates between what we feel and what we think.

In this light, the mass murderer has not even begun to be a person, a somebody that is capable of deciding how their interior world looks like. S/he is wholly identified with their biology and will to live. That happens when the inner child gets murdered before the adult dies or is even born.

Edited February 4, 2020 by tsuki
Last two paragraphs.

[Rebecca Kalamata]

 

5 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Hearts are never evil, they are always hurt/broken 

Thanks, Tsuki, I couldn't have said it better. I can imagine Jesus on the cross feeling the pain physically for all the mental pain we bear and crying out, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do". I thought all my life that he meant,"This nailing of me to this cross". I didn't realize that he meant for all the malakias (directly translated = masturbation, English = bullshit, nonsense, trouble, stupidity, selfishness etc.) that as a species with CONSCIOUSNESS we do.

I'm still working on evil though. I understand it and can forgive it from a distance. Personally I have never recognized evil having been done to me, again it goes back to always having taken responsibility, (God if you let me do it my way, walk up to the abyss and have a peek in, I'll never forsake you ie. I'll never stop seeking enlightenment, as with a billion year contract in Scientology, which would be climbing into the abyss which is not ENLIGHTENMENT/CONSCIOUSNESS/GOD. Part of the deal was my NOT climbing in ie. God keeping me safe.)

Marcus Aurelius , "who for reasons of state possibly sanctioned the persecution of Christians". How does a man as actualized as he was sanction such? To me, no matter, Christians, slaves, gladiators, other lions, dogs in dog fights, roosters in cock fights, warriors on a battlefield, it is all the same. JP referred to the prisoners in Auschwitz and the abhorrences done unto them. I AM FEMALE IN THIS INCARNATION! I cannot bear even the thought of so much pain.

Maybe it's just co-dependence.

 

[tsuki]

23 minutes ago, Rebecca Kalamata said:

I'm still working on evil though. I understand it and can forgive it from a distance. Personally I have never recognized evil having been done to me, again it goes back to always having taken responsibility,

I would say that one's capacity to recognize one's finitude is what gives birth to one's humanity.
Evil is relative, yes of course! But even if you are actualized enough to forgive from a distance, most people aren't! Isn't it lonely this way?
A sage would never come up to you and shove wisdom down your throat precisely because of that. It is not that s/he is too valuable for "swines", but to protect his/her humanity. 

23 minutes ago, Rebecca Kalamata said:

Marcus Aurelius , "who for reasons of state possibly sanctioned the persecution of Christians". How does a man as actualized as he was sanction such? To me, no matter, Christians, slaves, gladiators, other lions, dogs in dog fights, roosters in cock fights, warriors on a battlefield, it is all the same. JP referred to the prisoners in Auschwitz and the abhorrences done unto them. I AM FEMALE IN THIS INCARNATION! I cannot bear even the thought of so much pain.

The decisions he made were relative to the cultural context he lived in. I believe that what he decided for brought less suffering than what he decided against. He was a wise man, I read the parts of his Meditations. It was one of the earliest books I looked into when I was physically free of my parents' influence. I'm a bigger fan of Seneca though.

Edited February 4, 2020 by tsuki

[Rebecca Kalamata]

The way I see it, "Nothing is GOD'S Will." And God said unto the people, "Do what you fuckin' want. Just take responsibility for it for crying out loud and stop putting it back on ME. I am the WHOLE. YOU are the part. My job is to exist, your job is to experience. SAME/same, See/see?" HA/ha. GOD, ME and Tiko are rolling on the floor with laughter.

Here's a little story.

I AM THE GRAND IMP. I AM ALL THAT IS, ALL THAT WAS, AND ALL THAT EVER SHALL BE.  I got really bored. Everything was just the same, same, same. Explosions, explosions, explosions. I got this idea to create life and to BE LIFE.

[tsuki]

7 minutes ago, Rebecca Kalamata said:

The way I see it, "Nothing is GOD'S Will." And God said unto the people, "Do what you fuckin' want. Just take responsibility for it for crying out loud and stop putting it back on ME. I am the WHOLE. YOU are the part. My job is to exist, your job is to experience. SAME/same, See/see?" HA/ha. GOD, ME and Tiko are rolling on the floor with laughter.

Ah yes, if you found LOVE then that's awesome. 

[Lento]

@assx95

Don't fall for the trap that many other people fall into. God's will is not something that you look for and find. God's will is happening all the time and in all cases. For example, you being confused and posting this question is God's will, and every answer is also God's will.

What seems to be the problem here is that you actually want to change yourself, but you can't because there's an inner conflict between your current self and the self you want to become. You're calling your current conditioned self; 'God's will', and the self you're trying to become; 'responsible and meaningful'. These two selves are actually in conflict. But they both are irrelevant to the concept of God's will, because God's will would already be the case in either case. God's will is just Reality.

What you seem to be asking simply is this; how can I change without suffering? And the answer is that you can't, unless you accept the suffering as part of the process. You see, change fundamentally equals death. You're trying to kill your old conditioned self, and trying to give birth to your new self.

Have you ever heard of a labour free of suffering?! 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Lento

[Rebecca Kalamata]

Little Story continued:

"So I, The Grand Imp got the idea to imbue some of my life/my perspectives, with my consciousness so that I might manipulate my elements from an elemental point of view. Some of them had developed hands with which to do this and so I took one of the larger ones aside and told it to never, ever eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden. See it was a setup. I knew that it would eat the fruit cause that's what I would do. So then I embodied a handless creature and hid in the branches of the tree. It took a bit of urging on my part but the handed one ate the fruit and realized that there are no rules except what somebody else decides and that one must make up their own mind and make their own choices and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. And then be free like me. It was a great moment and still and always will be, world without end, amen."