What if the "infinite" is finite and is just the entirety of the Now?

[Visionary]

Lmao, and when would this Now stop? You haven't really understood what Now means. Its not somethings that springs from time. Its the other way around. Beginnings, endings... errthang.

[4201]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

One question I would ask is: what is your underlying energetic orientation? What is your desire and motivation pulling you toward? Is it to develop a conceptual construct that can satisfactorily explain phenomena and existential questions? Or is the desire and motivation to transcend rational constructs? These are very different orientations. 

This idea didn't come to me as a will to rationalize or explain anything. I was lying on my bed thinking about the story of John McAfee with his crazy life. Then it hit me that I didn't think about him for years probably yet it was a thought there from the Past and in my Now. I then started enumerating all the things that are in my Past (stored in the mind), people, objects I know, games I know how to play, places, youtube videos I've watched once, things I've said to people, courses I've taken, maths I know etc. etc. I didn't have anything of a breakthrough from this enumeration, but I was lying there realizing how wonderful is the mind for remembering all of this. I wasn't really thinking very hard, I was simply there looking at different things that are in my mind I can purposefully take and put in the foreground. For instance I can think about a chair right now and the image of a chair will pop up in my head. Simple, humble pleasure of realizing how great of a power it is to be able to do that, and how much of an insane quantity of stuff is in there. One I am sure is that I wasn't lost in thought at that time. I was looking at thought for the sake of looking at thought, perhaps in a little forced way (perhaps I wasn't looking at the thought that was making me purposefully making thoughts to look at) but the thoughts I was making were looked at and not identified with.

A few minutes later, I started thinking about this possibility. This "What if the Infinite is to simply see all that is in the mind at once?". Probably it was just the ego taking my brief moment of awareness and making it its thing. Yet I had no way to invalidate this possibility and indeed I failed to let it go.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think this is a key to see the underlying orientation. . . When you say "I am aware. . .", it seems like a contracted "I am" within an intellectual/personal "I am". From a trascendent, higher "I AM" awareness, there is a very different relationship with construct creation. There is knowing of a "prior". 

It's true that this "I am aware" formulation is as good as an "I know". So basically ego is identifying the "awareness of it being a story/knowledge of it being a story" of these things for its own identity? I don't feel like this particular point is the weakness in the argument. This part of the post is simply saying "I know this is a story but please consider my story". Of course I should know by now that my story's not gonna be considered on this forum  It is a good opportunity however, to see how much attached I became to knowing whether or not the story was right. I don't think I was neurotically attached to this story when I first experienced it, but writting it down in this forum may have made it "my story" rather than "a story" and this is where the attachment came into place.

It's easy to let go of stupid stories. But when you think you just found out a new theorem (let's say a math theorem) can you really let go of it? This story perhaps didn't excite much people here, but to me when I first experienced it, it felt clever, it felt like a new piece of my understanding coming together. Isn't this what an insight is?

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Any *thing* we come up with is within infinity. 

 Sure but that's an upper bound. There's no way to know if you are experiencing a finite subset of things, which is simply too large for your entire understanding.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

One cannot step outside of Absolute Infinity and create a construct to explain infinity. It immediately becomes infinity. 

I'll admit I don't quite see this. We got a bunch of explanations of infinity which are not infinite. You can simply say "all the possible things" or just the word "infinity". Sure those things are pointers to it, not the real thing. But so is an explanation. The explanation is just a pointer, not the actual thing.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think ideas of memories and experiences are very interesting in a certain context. However, your context and frame here crashes down.

How can Absolute Infinity be just. . . ? . . . Even rationally, this is super easy to see. . . Its the same as saying "What if Everything is just. . . ?". Do you see how there is separation here and anything you come up with is within Absolute Infinity? The whole frame collapses. . . . If you framed your construct like "What if there was a relative dimension of infinity in which an infinite number of memories was related to xyz. . . ". That is a very different relative construct. This would be one relative infinite dimension within and infinite number of infinite dimensions. 

There's no doubt that everything is within Absolute Infinity, that's the most upper bound you could possibly find. I'm not denying any of that, but simply exploring the possibility of being within a finite subset of Absolute Infinity. There's no doubt that this subset is extremely large and uncountable.

If we assume we have infinitely many such memories and experiences, do you agree that experiencing Absolute Infinity is the same as seeing them all at once?

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

At this point in the conversation, there is no point. There is no point continuing with a relative construct trying to capture Absolute. 

I'm sorry if this is annoying to you or pointless. To me however, I feel like I have gained from this. Even if that gain is the simple noticing of my ego running and shouting that it has "figured it out" being yet another story.

 

[4201]

2 hours ago, Visionary said:

Lmao, and when would this Now stop? You haven't really understood what Now means. Its not somethings that springs from time. Its the other way around. Beginnings, endings... errthang.

There's no time to Now, this is not what I meant, I apologize if it wasn't clear. What I mean is that right now, you can be aware of all of your past experiences and memories (rather than being stuck in a story composed of them). They are part of your Now, you can be aware of them right now even if they aren't happening right now. 

[Visionary]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

There's no time to Now, this is not what I meant, I apologize if it wasn't clear. What I mean is that right now, you can be aware of all of your past experiences and memories (rather than being stuck in a story composed of them). They are part of your Now, you can be aware of them right now even if they aren't happening right now. 

I see you brother. The thing is, you think I/ownership is something take makes the Now possible. The Now is actually something that makes "mine" possible. The Now owns me. It is me. And "I" spring from it. Like in deep sleep. There is no "you". But the Now is there. What was there before you were born? How can your life be seperated by "nothing"? It should be something to be seperated by. How else can there be separation. Timelesness = no me.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Visionary

[Forestluv]

@4201 My post backfired and was counter-productive. The intention was to stimulate a transcendent awareness, yet it had the opposite effect of further contraction into conceptual rationalism. . .

As another said. . . time for the zen stick. . . whack, whack, whack!!!!

[4201]

14 minutes ago, Visionary said:

I see you brother. The thing is, you think I/ownership is something take makes the Now possible. The Now is actually something that makes "mine" possible. The Now owns me. It is me. And "I" spring from it. Like in deep sleep. There is no "you". But the Now is there. What was there before you were born? How can your life be seperated by "nothing"? It should be something to be seperated by. How else can there be separation. Timelesness = no me.

I get that I am the awareness in which content emerges and it's not the content that creates me (the monkey story). The latter, is the rationalist explanation for the world (brains, neural networks, atoms etc.) is just a story which prevents awareness from looking at itself (looking at the empty space behind and around the story). I am in no way advocating for the use of a rationality-based mindset where everything is explained and everything is a story. The rationalist explanation is incomplete, it doesn't answer the questions you asked and I don't blame any spiritual seekers from dropping it altogether. No there's no Past (or Past didn't have to happen) yet there's memories in Now. I believe I was falling under the trap of thinking that my Now was limited to my current body sensations and the few thoughts I can be aware of but no, there's much more to the Now than that. The Now is HUUUGE that's all I can say for now, and perhaps one day I'll see why this Huge is Infinite and cannot just be Huge.

 

[Javfly33]

@4201 @MAYA EL Hey, I also thought (the day after it happened) when all concepts collapsed in my reality, I rationalized thinking...hey, maybe it was my brain and the psych doing an strange collaboration to actually left me with 0 memories for a moment, and therefore that's why everything seem to totally die in that moment.

But then I realized, that that explanation was also something being created, something inside the consciousness, there's no doubt that consciousness came first, and it's now first and it will be, explain it doesn't make sense but this understanding came in form of intuition/perspective shift that it was impossible that any thought could convince me otherwise.

After I abandon that last thought of sanity to try to realign my intense experience with my classic materialistic understanding of reality , I entered a whole new perspective and I actually comprehend it,.not with words but with something that I couldn't prove wrong. Like they usually say here 'it has no opposites'.

As I did too, maybe you can explore different perspectives first before trying to make sense. It's like the Tetris game, maybe that block it can never fit in that box. (And you should try another a really really different box)

Edited February 4, 2020 by Javfly33

[The Lucid Dreamer]

 

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@4201 This is the point in the conversation where a Zen master slaps you hard across the face.

That made me LOL.