It's so easy when you have drugs isn't it?

[0ne]

I'm just wondering, why is it that doing spiritual work sober is (at least for me) such a long-ass process of suffering, but a psychedelic just works?

Does this mean I should be structuring my life around getting high any way possible?

It just seems stupid is all...

[purerogue]

Where you got idea that drugs makes your path smooth? 

It seems your concern is with progress, well, have not used and I am sure I have explored more then most of drug users here, take it as you want. 

[Nahm]

In part because you’re doing something you don’t want to be doing. Got something else more desirable to do? Do that. 

[0ne]

@purerogue Having experienced DMT, LSD and marijuana gives me this idea, not to mention how there are supposedly much more powerful ones out there. After these experiences, my awareness has transformed, but I believe there are a lot more transformations to happen. It's just that making them happen sober seems like a very tall order.

[mandyjw]

It's so easy to fall in love. 

[DoubleYou]

2 minutes ago, 0ne said:

@purerogue Having experienced DMT, LSD and marijuana gives me this idea, not to mention how there are supposedly much more powerful ones out there. After these experiences, my awareness has transformed, but I believe there are a lot more transformations to happen. It's just that making them happen sober seems like a very tall order.

Substances can definitely be part of awakening. Though the awakening itself is prior to that, and every single second of your life is part of that process. Not just the peak moments that arise out of those substances. Or any peak moment for that matter.

And while transformation can certainly be offered through these peak moments, integration is not. So, the simple (sober) moments in your life are as important as the profound ones. You wouldn't be able to handle transformation after transformation if you weren't also able to integrate them.

So, while these huge transformations can definitely be beneficial, they are never the goal. That would just be another way of chasing experiences. Or objects. These peak moments are simply perfectly timed openings that correspond to your needs in that very moment. If that means getting high, then so be it. If that means intense retreat, so be it. You'll know what to do, cause you'll be doing it. So let go of what you think is needed for awakening. Whatever is needed will always occur. As it's always occurring right now.

[ajasatya]

@0ne No, it's not easy. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Spiritual cleansing is a long and painful process regardless of the method. Some methods can be a bit less painful.

[purerogue]

31 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

Substances can definitely be part of awakening. Though the awakening itself is prior to that, and every single second of your life is part of that process. Not just the peak moments that arise out of those substances. Or any peak moment for that matter.

And while transformation can certainly be offered through these peak moments, integration is not. So, the simple (sober) moments in your life are as important as the profound ones. You wouldn't be able to handle transformation after transformation if you weren't also able to integrate them.

So, while these huge transformations can definitely be beneficial, they are never the goal. That would just be another way of chasing experiences. Or objects. These peak moments are simply perfectly timed openings that correspond to your needs in that very moment. If that means getting high, then so be it. If that means intense retreat, so be it. You'll know what to do, cause you'll be doing it. So let go of what you think is needed for awakening. Whatever is needed will always occur. As it's always occurring right now.

Did not say that method has nothing to give, but it has it own flaws, it is in no way better, has all the same problems others have. 

Way of chasing experiences as you put. 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by purerogue

[mandyjw]

I was talking with my husband about saying to people that you're teaching "it's easy", and he said that he never does it because he thinks it's cruel and mean. He said it's more compassionate to not say that and assume that something that was easy for you is going to be easy for them. But difficult and easy are relative, arbitrary and capricious concepts and we choose the story we tell about achievements and realizations after or before the fact. Do you want it to be hard or do you want it to be easy? Or do you want to limit yourself by making one thing easy and the other hard in comparison?

On one hand if it's difficult, it seems like it's worthwhile, you wouldn't appreciate it fully if you didn't work for it. If it's easy anyone could do it, and then it wouldn't be rare, exclusive or special. Enlightenment is not exclusive and it is not an attainment. It's so easy, it's already done. Congratulations! Feel as if you are it and you will become it. 

[purerogue]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Enlightenment is not exclusive and it is not an attainment. It's so easy, it's already done. Congratulations! Feel as if you are it and you will become it. 

That is very deceptive and silly thing to say. 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by purerogue

[Grateful Dead]

You haven't done real spiritual work with psychedelics if you think it's easy. It will demand everything from you.

[mandyjw]

15 minutes ago, purerogue said:

That is very deceptive and silly thing to say. 

If you believe in the concept of important and profound then you create things that are deceptive and silly. All are truth. Truth is deception. The profound is ridiculous. 

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

If you believe in the concept of important and profound then you create things that are deceptive and silly. All are truth. Truth is deception. The profound is ridiculous. 

It is not about  important and profound , or truth being deceptive, it is about first you have to realize why it is like that, without realization , you will not  know , does it matter is another question, in the end it does not matter, but I think answer is very deceptive and wrong. 

[Lento]

What are you guys even talking about?

[purerogue]

Just now, Lento said:

What are you guys even talking about?

About our understanding of existence

[Lento]

Just now, purerogue said:

About our understanding of existence

Oh, poor mind! Create problems and then act like trying to solve them.

The story of every mind's life!

[purerogue]

Just now, Lento said:

Oh, poor mind! Create problems and then act like trying to solve them.

The story of every mind's life!

If there would be no mind then I would not be here!

 

[Lento]

Just now, purerogue said:

If there would be no mind then I would not be here!

Where would you be then?

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Lento said:

Where would you be then?

Me personally, I would not exist.

 

[mandyjw]

15 minutes ago, purerogue said:

It is not about  important and profound , or truth being deceptive, it is about first you have to realize why it is like that, without realization , you will not  know , does it matter is another question, in the end it does not matter, but I think answer is very deceptive and wrong. 

If you want to play "right" I'll play "wrong" for the sake of the game. If you want to play doctor, someone else has to play sick. The point is, it's all just play. The question is... are you having fun?