Is there a controler?

[Eternalcur]

I was thinking about posting at this forum for a long time and finally I'm doing it. I have a few problems in my life that I have been struggling with and I wanted to hear some advice. But I waited for so long that those problems, despite the fact I still have them, are no longer that important to me. I think I'm on a best way to deal with them but not in a way that I could ever expect to happen.

I have been watching Actualized for a few years. Less than 2 years ago I have started meditate and I was quite happy with the results I got. I was more and more interested with enlightment-related topics. Finally I have decided to try LSD and see what happens. I will describe my second trip, since the first one is not related to the questions I have.

At first I was happy, laughing with no reason. I had such a need of a hug, that I wrapped myself with a duvet so tightly, as if I wanted to merge into one with it and everything that surrounds me. If there was anyone else besides me in the apartament, I could strangle him with a hug. That was nice but felt more like just having fun. It didn't take a long time before it stopped. All of a sudden I felt quite normal, except for the visual efect caused by the LSD. I didn't feel present as I was during my first trip. I was angry and disapointed by this but decided to take a walk, so I left home and went ahead.

I was complaining about that in my mind as I was walking. Deeply I wanted this trip to be some sort a guidance for what to look during self-inquire that I have just started few days ago. As I was walking away from my home, I suddenly realized something. I was certaily going somewhere but I didn't know where. I couldn't stop. I couldn't change a direction. I felt like my legs were moving by themself. I accepted that as my trip and was curious what will happen.

After 10 minutes I finally came to a point of being totally amazed by this. I could feel that I would be turning on the pavement long before it actually happened even though I didn't know where I was going. I felt like my whole body was preparing for that turn and that was my only clue of what will happen next. I even felt like I'm automatically stopping before crossing the road and moving head in both directions to see if it is safe to go. I was observing as my head and legs cooperate to get me to the point of destination. After a while I guessed that I was going to my friend, who sold me the LSD.

I wasn't afraid of what was happening. I was actually ashamed that I hadn't noticed it before. It was obvious to me that it was always like that. It felt like walking was never my choice, it was always done for me. Despite the lack of control over the body, it was in line with what I wanted to do. I felt that this agreement between movement and will could create the illusion of control in my everyday life. I could only see this happening for my legs but at that time I was sure it is also happening for the rest of my body and also my thoughts, but I'm not aware of it yet.

When I finally arrived at my friend's house, I was curious what I would do next. I went to the entrance to the building and rang the intercom. All that was done for me automatically. Luckily he wasn't home. Then I realized something. For the last 15 minutes I didn't know where I was going but I felt that I had a destination. When I realized there was no friend at home, I stood still and felt tense, as if my body did'nt know what to do next. After a minute I started to walk again, this time knowing that I don't have a destination. It was even weirder. I walked a bit and sat on the bench. I don't know how long I sat there. I started to worry about not getting up and freezing but eventually I went home.

After returning home I went straight to bed. I was calm but felt empty inside. Suddenly I was struck by the thought that the ego is completely useless and I take credit for the merits it has not done. I started crying and explaining to myself that I didn't know I was useless. I cried that I had good intentions, that I wanted to be helpful and didn't know that I was only disturbing. I cried that I just wanted to be loved and I really tried my best. I cried that I have to die and there is no choice. It was so sad to know right before "death" that I was useless all the time. It lasted several minutes. As I write this, tears came up in my eyes, even though it's been two months since this event.

Then I stopped crying and fell silent again but it wasn't long before I started to cry again. But I didn't say "I" anymore, I started saying "you". I said that "you" were the best ego I could have. I cried that being so small was his best advantage. I cried that "you need to die and you know it". I cried that I am extremely grateful to him, that he brought me to this point and that it would not have been possible without him. That I love him very much but he needs to die. As I was crying, I realized that something was dead but the ego was still present. I even said to my dead ego that I (ego2.0?) would soon die and join him. It was a strange feeling to say goodbye to the deceased myself, knowing that I am still alive but I will die soon and join him and leaving myself (ego3.0?) alive again.

Few days after this incident I started to observe what is happening while walking. One day when I came home after smoking marijuana, I felt the same feeling of automatic walking. Shortly after that I was able to sense it soberly, but it was a weak feeling. Yesterday, when I was coming back from the doctor, I felt it almost identically, as under the influence of LSD. I was even worried because I didn't know where I was going again. I was hoping that I would come home and luckily I did but I was coming back on an unusual route.

 

Based on these experiences, I came to many conclusions that caused me more confusion than understanding. So my questions are:

1) Can you make a change in your life if are unable to control your actions? I was only aware of walking but I have a sense that its not the only thing that is out of my control.

2) Is there any sense in planning? Before these events I was interested in developing my skills in creating strategies for my life. I felt that it might be interesting to treat life as a strategic game and be a strategist in it. Now I doubt that.

3) Is it possible to create a life purpose or do something meaningfull in life? I have started a life purpose course and I really like it. Now I'm not sure as everything I do is out of my (ego) control. Am I wrong? Should I stop it and wait to see where meditation will lead me to? Eckhart Tolle, Osho and Mooji are saying that there is no purpose of life. I was not enlightened but I feel that there is a truth in their statement, that the only purpose is the life itself. I am actually afraid of this being true as I always wanted to achieve something. I'm a programmer and I wanted to master my profession and create something meaningfull. Now I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should read books and continue to learn. I recognize my ego in it but it doesn't make anything easier.

4) Am I exaggerating with my doubts? I'm not even sure if anything that I said has any value. I don't know if all those experiences and conclusions were real or just caused by a drug. I feel like I'm lost but it doesn't feel bad so it makes me doubt that I'm lost. I'm calmer than ever before and quite happy. Sometimes I dont feel anything and my mind is empty. For now I stick to what I planned a few months ago but I don't know what to do next.

5) What question I didn't ask that would help me? I don't know why I'm asking this but it seems relevant to me.

 

Thanks for reading this, I would appreciate every comment from you. I had a need to finally talk about it. I hope I didn't make too many mistakes, or at least I wrote it in an understandable way. It took me more than 3 hours to finish it.

[VeganAwake]

There is no right or wrong answer, you are free to do whatever you want.

There is not a controller, I think it's just Boundless Energy doing its thing infinitely. 

We are it and it is we ?

 

 

 

[DreamScape]

Unconsciousness. I've noticed the same thing within myself, although I just stopped thinking while washing trays at my work. It was like my body did it without me. 

Yes, you can make changes in your life. But for me, I have to either 1) overlay what's already there or 2) let go of what's there and replace it with something new. Option two is my preference. 

[VeganAwake]

We think that if our body freezes in time, the world will freeze with it.

The world doesn't freeze, it just goes on doing its thing without us being apart of it.

The make-believe story of the individual feels so important...

everything has perfect equal importance...

 a perfect balance of zero ?

[Galyna]

@VeganAwake Thank you very much for all your wisdom. I was reading some other posts by you and have a question.

Before you became liberated, have you ever felt that since you were not a controller, this is no point, all this is so funny and does not make any sense. 

Honestly, it feels so lonely and depressing for my so called "illusory ego". I feel like a fool. All meanings are lost. I am not enlightened yet to grasp it with my little brain, but I am not interested to feed my ego with various stories either. This is ridiculous how much of importance we want to put on our meaningless existence. 

Thank you for your time and answer.

[VeganAwake]

I understand exactly what you're saying ❤

The message that nothing really matters feels threatening at first to the separate self. Later it's recognized that it's pure boundless freedom and unconditional love.

The separate self knows nothing else but to seek.... this constant seeking perpetuates the belief in its realness and on and on running on the hamster wheel endlessly. It will even turn not seeking into a form of seeking. 

"The ego says seek but do not find"

- A Course in Miracles

The thing to recognize is that one way isn't better than the other, it's all happening within THIS...and its WHAT IS ❤ you are absolutely perfect just the way you are nothing needs to happen.

What is being communicated is, sometimes this illusory separate self falls away and it's recognized that it never existed. 

It's important for you to find your own truth about this... do not just take my word blindly... check it out for yourself ❤

 

[Galyna]

@VeganAwake Thank you so much for your answer ❤.

Never heard about Helen Schucman, thank you for sharing a nice quote. 

I really truly believe I am not a doer, however, desires of mine drive me crazy. IF, I can not change anything what is the point of wishing, right? Just take your life as it unfolds without any expectations. Live it in the present moment. I understand it with my mind, but not with my heart. Because deeply I want to realize something and I can not let it go. As soon I start to suppress it, subconscious mind delivers my desires in my dreams. This is so annoying. This creates suffering. I am so tired of this. I want to surrender and let it go.  But from time to time, I start daydreaming about my  desire and it takes me into the land of the mind constructions, stories, false beliefs and so on. I want to be free from my desires. I also know that there is only one way to this Freedom, and this way is Enlightenment. I just hope by the end of my life somehow I will achieve it. Perhaps, you would tell me ( as in your prior topics you told other people) that I set a time frame for this event to happen and I should not do it.  Anyway....

How lucky your are to see through the prism of this silly illusion❤. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Galyna

[VeganAwake]

The cosmic joke is when Enlightenment occurs the 'I' or 'ME' character has fallen away.

I or ME is used here as an expression so it's understood what is being explained.

Sometimes practices appear to perpetuate the belief of the illusory self and sometimes it appears to assist in waking up.

It seems this energy simply wakes up to itself when its ready, but who knows.

Tony Parson says it doesn't matter about practices....a person can be drunk in the gutter and have realization or be practicing yoga for 20 years. I'm sure there will be a lot more study on this.

How attached an individual is to the illusory sense of self may play a role.

What happened here was there was a desperate Seeker that made a commitment to find Enlightenment or die trying.... I was harnessing my anxiety energy to do this. Although at the time I didn't even know what I was seeking... kind of funny

After about a year I felt myself burning out I thought I must have come across the answer by now what am I missing.

I remember hearing it is a turning within and a falling away process.

I immediately turned inwards.... it seemed that energy I was harnessing recognized almost immediately the sense of self was an illusion made up of beliefs ideas and perceptions about myself. The layers started crumbling away and burning up within the light of awareness. This energy seemed to fall back into itself which is everything and nothing.

It seems to be an energetic shift and not just a conceptual understanding.. as I've come across a lot of people that understand but haven't had the energetic shift happen... this can't explain it over here either...its crazy!

Anyways other things seemed to follow this first recognition... it was recognized the Mind had been identified with this energy and believed it to be the sense of ME.

There was an untangling from social conditioning and a snapping out of the Matrix as I like to describe.

After walking through this gateless gate when you look back you see the illusion of the self was never even there... it was energy in disguise as an I. It was a misidentification...

" The separation never occurred"

- A Course in Miracles

Remember this message of Enlightenment does not help the believed individual. In fact the illusory individual does not want to hear this message and can't hear it for that matter. There has to be something that awakens from its slumber and removes the veil.

Let those who have ears to hear listen. ❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake You don't really know what you're talking about. You say the right words but you are deluded by spiritual concepts. Enlightenment will improve the individual condition. Spiritual practices work. They will make you a better a person, and make you feel good (god).

But talking on forum at ego's is not spiritual practice. This is not giving back. For those seeking enlightenment, inspect beliefs and figure out why you want it. There is a real path, but delusion is difficult to overcome early on the path.

[VeganAwake]

Trust me I understand your judgments bud... it's hard enough using language to describe anything let alone texting it on a forum...❤

Good luck on your journey my friend...

I'm here if you ever want to private message me or do a Skype or something ?

[Galyna]

@VeganAwake Thank you for your advice. It is very informative. I have couple of questions, though....do you mind answering?

[VeganAwake]

I can try...❤ sure

[Galyna]

@VeganAwake Man, I am afraid the moderators will complain I am flooding the thread with the topic that does not pertain to the conversation about Free Will.

[VeganAwake]

You can private message me if you like.

 

 

 

[Galyna]

@VeganAwake sure, thanks. Let me frame it first, then I will send you my questions, I need to contemplate a bit how to wrap it. 

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, Galyna said:

@VeganAwake sure, thanks. Let me frame it first, then I will send you my questions, I need to contemplate a bit how to wrap it. 

If you have time...this is an amazing video I recommend on this forum all the time. 

It almost mimics exactly that of my own experience ?

The way it explains the egoic self agenda is profound...

[Nahm]

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

1) Can you make a change in your life if are unable to control your actions? I was only aware of walking but I have a sense that its not the only thing that is out of my control.

Imagine a character in a movie sitting down and beginning to realize he’s been reacting - following a script, filling the roles of a character. And more deeply, the actor begins to realize he’s been ‘playing the part’ of a human. Upon further inspection, ‘he’ discovers who he actually is, and as such, is entirely free - always was. So he begins living the life he actually wants, free of ‘others thinking’, free of ‘self referential thinking’. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

2) Is there any sense in planning?

“Sense”, is feeling...sensation. When viewed through the ‘what other people think’ or ‘what is logical & appropriate’ (collective beliefs) lenses...logic is misunderstood as ‘making sense’. “Makes sense” is feels amazing, or, the living of life which is full of sens-ation, in love of “living”. In this, new sense is “made”, siddhis, intuition, etc. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

Before these events I was interested in developing my skills in creating strategies for my life. I felt that it might be interesting to treat life as a strategic game and be a strategist in it. Now I doubt that.

I think this is because you’re looking at your experience from a one sided limited view. In noticing “you” are not “doing the walking” per se, you reduced your idea of you, rather than realizing your idea of you is just an idea, and never was actually you. You could say, relatively speaking to that reference, that actual you is the ground, the motion, the electromagnetic field, gravity, energy, etc. Rather than reducing an idea of you, inspect, scrutinize, actual you. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

3) Is it possible to create a life purpose or do something meaningfull in life? 

What is meaningful...to you?  Do that. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

I have started a life purpose course and I really like it. Now I'm not sure as everything I do is out of my (ego) control. Am I wrong?

Not so much “wrong”, just on the path, self discovering. The ego is made up. It’s a word used for where quantum meets atomic. A “line”. But there is no line there, it’s just where logic breaks down, where infinite wave appears to be finite particles. So in only thinking...this is where thinking breaks down. In feeling though...meaning & purpose are made anew, in the discovery of who you really are.

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

Should I stop it and wait to see where meditation will lead me to?

Both are already unfolding perfectly as one. Enjoy the adventure of living, and the metadventure of discovery the true nature of self & reality. It’s truly the journey of a lifetime. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

Eckhart Tolle, Osho and Mooji are saying that there is no purpose of life. I was not enlightened but I feel that there is a truth in their statement, that the only purpose is the life itself. I am actually afraid of this being true as I always wanted to achieve something. I'm a programmer and I wanted to master my profession and create something meaningfull. Now I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should read books and continue to learn. I recognize my ego in it but it doesn't make anything easier.

“Play it out”...why do you want to achieve something? ...for the experience, & how it feels. There’s an a priori assumption of “how it works”...that you’ll feel better, when you’ve achieved more. But upon ‘having achieved more’...the great feeling, fades, and there is a new ‘thing’ to achieve, to feel the high again. You can see that without the assumption ‘I’ll feel better when’, is conditional living / feeling. Without the conditions, the greatest feeling, is now. If you think about it - there’s no feeling in a past or future. There simply is no past or future. These are thoughts, which only ever arise, now. Now, is when feeling is. Only, now. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

4) Am I exaggerating with my doubts?

They don’t feel good, and you’re focusing on them. 

What does feel good for you? Focus on that, you’ll experience more & more of it. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

I'm not even sure if anything that I said has any value.

You have thoughts about what other people think. That is not actually what other people think. It’s what you think, that other people think. 

If there is ‘high worthwhile value’, or if there is ‘low worthless value’....it’s your own thought, your own perspective, your own belief. What feels best for you, what ‘lights you up’? That is actually valuable to you. Do more of that. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

I don't know if all those experiences and conclusions were real or just caused by a drug.

Give some attention to your direct experience. Have you even experienced real and unreal ? Have no experienced existence, and nonexistence ?

Thinking is quite sneaky. Ideas of unreal, or, nonexistence, are not the same as directly experiencing unreal, or, nonexistence...are they? 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

I feel like I'm lost but it doesn't feel bad so it makes me doubt that I'm lost.

Wherever you are, is here. You’re the one ‘thing’ which can never be lost. 

There is only the believing of thoughts (like Is am lost’), or not. You’re exactly where you “should” be, you’re where you are. Prior to thought, to judgment of it...it’s already perfect, and you can relax and enjoy it as such. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

I'm calmer than ever before and quite happy. Sometimes I dont feel anything and my mind is empty. For now I stick to what I planned a few months ago but I don't know what to do next.

Inspecting, contemplating, as you are, is “facing fears”. They’re all made up, so it feels wonderful to debunk them.  Love is very funny in this way, and can be no other way. That is, to experience, you had to forget who you really are. 

15 hours ago, Eternalcur said:

5) What question I didn't ask that would help me? I don't know why I'm asking this but it seems relevant to me.

What is the source of feeling...what is the value in terms of feeling and maximizing the living & the love experience, in getting all of what you want in this life on a dream board in front of you, so that it all begins to become clear, and in doing so, more & more enjoyable & effortless? 

If there is no separation, such as between the ‘thinking’ and the ‘feet walking’...what happens when you honestly write on the board, what you’re wanting...and let all resistant thoughts to it - go? 

[Galyna]

38 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

If you have time...this is an amazing video I recommend on this forum all the time. 

It almost mimics exactly that of my own experience ?

The way it explains the egoic self agenda is profound...

I have watched it. And also I read a lot of books by other teachers ?

[Qusi]

Interesting experience...I also thought to try LSD, but still not decided