Trying to observe the observer

[Spaceofawareness]

I spend much time during the day observing my mind and bodily reactions. I have learned to be able to observe these things like they are objects, so it’s like they are observed externally and objectively, not from within those states, subjectively.

So now I want to try and observe this one who is observing, as I know since I am aware that there is one observing, it must be able to be observed. I’ll start with the initial observing of either a mind object or sensory object or movement, from this external objective location, then, when there is recognition of this observation, I try and step outside of that place and look back at this observer (figuratively speaking) however, I haven’t been able to discern anything about this observer, it’s like stepping out and looking at nothing. It can’t be viewed as an object, therefore it seems it must be pure subject. But why is it there can be awareness of this observer, yet it can’t be observed as any thing?

i have read that this is what must be done, to observe the observer. I’m not sure if I am correctly approaching this, however I have only really tried recently so I think I need to persist to see what occurs. Does anyone have any experience with this? There are still times when what is observed has power, it hasn’t yet been fully deflated of its affectiveness, I try to observe even this, the one being affected by pains or pleased by pleasures.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Spaceofawareness
Misspell

[purerogue]

Not sure where you read that you need to do it, you can observe observer of observer of observer and so on, I mean maybe it can give you some understanding,  you need extremely strong awareness to do it, it might be reason why someone suggested to do it , other then that I see no point. 

[VeganAwake]

This video talks a little bit about what was discussed here...❤

 

[SOUL]

Please allow me to offer a conceptual understanding that differs from many on this forum..... don't separate the objective and subjective as if they are not one perspective, ultimately they are one.

To be in awareness from the so called 'objective' observer one will 'subjectively' view themselves through that 'objective' perspective. We are 'subjectively' viewing the attached subjective experience from an unattached subjective perspective which we call 'objective' observation.

So then to observe the 'objective' observation we will 'subjectively' view from a point that is unattached to the 'objective' observation. As we continue to view from a point increasingly unattached to any one specific point we view them from all points and become aware of our presence in all perspectives.

So the difference between the conceptual perspective of 'objective' and 'subjective' ceases to be obstacle to genuine unified perspective. This is what some call non-dual awareness.... I would call it holistic awareness.

[purerogue]

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Please allow me to offer a conceptual understanding that differs from many on this forum..... don't separate the objective and subjective as if they are not one perspective, ultimately they are one.

To be in awareness from the so called 'objective' observer one will 'subjectively' view themselves through that 'objective' perspective. We are 'subjectively' viewing the attached subjective experience from an unattached subjective perspective which we call 'objective' observation.

So then to observe the 'objective' observation we will 'subjectively' view from a point that is unattached to the 'objective' observation. As we continue to view from a point increasingly unattached to any one specific point we view them from all points and become aware of our presence in all perspectives.

So the difference between the conceptual perspective of 'objective' and 'subjective' ceases to be obstacle to genuine unified perspective. This is what some call non-dual awareness.... I would call it holistic awareness.

It begs to make many questions of why you experience only one of perception , if they all are present and how it effect whole perception together. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by purerogue

[SOUL]

14 minutes ago, purerogue said:

It begs to make many questions of why you experience only one of perception , if they all are present and how it effect whole perception together. 

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here but if I'm not mistaken your point I will say yes all perspectives are present in the holistic awareness as 'oneness' perspective.

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here but if I'm not mistaken your point I will say yes all perspectives are present in the holistic awareness as 'oneness' perspective.

My point was that this experience we are having is getting experienced trough many states,perspectives at the same time, but we are only experiencing  couple of them at the most, that is how I understand it, now the question is how does it shape up whole experience as there is effect on whole experience from state of observation. 

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

My point was that this experience we are having is getting experienced trough many states,perspectives at the same time, but we are only experiencing  couple of them at the most, that is how I understand it, now the question is how does it shape up whole experience as there is effect on whole experience from state of observation. 

There are dynamics with the brain and our minds that will limit the degree of awareness we have of the infinite perspectives that are present simultaneously because of it's focus on just one or few of them. We are the objective and subjective, the finite and infinite simultaneously.

Consciousness work can allow us to increase our experience of unattached awareness so we aren't attached to just one or a few of the separate perspectives which ironically brings on a sense of 'connectedness' to all views that exists in the oneness perspective.

Edited January 28, 2020 by SOUL

[VeganAwake]

Our minds create an individual story...

Our minds create an overlay that's placed on top of reality and judge it according to our conditioning.

If it's something that helps the story of ME or goes along with my beliefs it's labeled good. If it goes against my beliefs it's labeled bad.

This ME characters story is called Maya the illusion of the self. It isn't real.

If we were to remove the thinking mind out of the equation it's just existence happening for no one. There would be no purpose no meaning nothing to do and nowhere to go. Just existence happening the way it happens....its THIS!

Duality is an illusion, there was never any separation because there is no one actually here to be separated, it was an illusion(Maya)

Note:

This cannot be understood by the dualistic thinking mind, typically an Awakening needs to occur before this is seen through...

After non-dual awareness is present the line between subject and object blurs because it's recognized the separation never occurred.

It's simultaneously recognized that Free Will and choice is also an illusion. Things are just happening regardless of whether we are creating a personal illusory story about it or not...

❤

 

 

 

[Consilience]

12 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

It's simultaneously recognized that Free Will and choice is also an illusion. Things are just happening regardless of whether we are creating a personal illusory story about it or not...

It's also an illusion to think that things are just happening without will. This is a tough one to become conscious of though... Basically shit isn't just happening randomly, and the most fitting word I can find to describe it is as Will, but it is not the egoic, individual sense of will everyone thinks they have. 

[purerogue]

Here we go again Vegan  

[VeganAwake]

26 minutes ago, Consilience said:

It's also an illusion to think that things are just happening without will. This is a tough one to become conscious of though... Basically shit isn't just happening randomly, and the most fitting word I can find to describe it is as Will, but it is not the egoic, individual sense of will everyone thinks they have. 

Maybe It's tough to become conscious of because it isn't happening...

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake What practices do you do? You are not done on the path, yet you act like you have hit max level. 

What exactly do you do all day? 

[SOUL]

44 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Our minds create an individual story

Then you go on to create a story shared by many on this forum

46 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Our minds create an overlay that's placed on top of reality and judge it according to our conditioning.

The type of conditioning on this forum is typically of the 'non-dual' variety

49 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

If it's something that helps the story of ME or goes along with my beliefs it's labeled good. If it goes against my beliefs it's labeled bad.

Or as 'truth' and 'illusion' which is the conditioning of this forum but derived from eastern religious teaching

51 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Things are just happening regardless of whether we are creating a personal illusory story about it or not

...which you dutifully did nonetheless.

[VeganAwake]

13 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@VeganAwake What practices do you do? You are not done on the path, yet you act like you have hit max level. 

What exactly do you do all day? 

I've been going through a 3 year gradual Enlightenment experience.

About a year-and-a-half ago, I stopped seeking and turned within and recognized the self created ME character was simply an illusion compiled of energy, thoughts, beliefs, ideas and perceptions about myself. I began shedding the layers of the illusory self.

The ME character fell away and it was simultaneously recognized that it never existed. 

I untangled from social conditioning and snapped out of The Matrix...

At this point I would consider myself completely liberated from the prison of the mind.

I'm a senior equipment operator first class in the US Navy Seabees on active duty. I've been in for 18 years... I'm stationed in Port Hueneme California.

I have more free time than most people in the military because we are currently in Home Port and I just manage and make sure people do their jobs.

I really don't do any practices any longer because it feels like a constant meditative state.

 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

11 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Then you go on to create a story shared by many on this forum

The type of conditioning on this forum is typically of the 'non-dual' variety

Or as 'truth' and 'illusion' which is the conditioning of this forum but derived from eastern religious teaching

...which you dutifully did nonetheless.

Yes there can still be a message shared but it does not belong to a separate individual because the separate individual is an illusion.

Liberation is the end of suffering because it's recognized the individual suffering was an illusion. ?

[Forestluv]

@Spaceofawareness An "observer" awareness can be very profound. Rupert Spira calls it "enlightened duality". 

A good meditative exercise for this is "thoughts are logs". While meditating, imagine you are sitting on a river bank watching watching logs float down the river. Each thought is a log. With practice, there can be an emergent awareness that is unattached to thoughts. They are simply logs floating down the river. . . It's not just an intellectual construct. There is a direct experience essence revealed. It is a major goal of many meditations and can be very profound. With enough meditative practice, an awareness that "thoughts are logs" can arise throughout the day - while studying, on a date, while at work, playing a sport. With practice and new conditioning, the mind can "flip" into this state of consciousness and it is one of the most common states of consciousness I engage with. It can change how one perceives and relates to reality and there are many beautiful spiritual writings of this.

In a state of consciousness, this "observer" is simply awareness. Yet the tendency is for the self construct to become attached/identified to the "observer". . . "I am the observer, aware of my thoughts". Over time, this can lead to a highly sneaky self-construct hiding in the shadows. The self co-opts the "observer" and is now flying under the radar in "the background".

As someone said earlier in the thread, awareness of the observer entity is a very high conscious level. It's not just an intellectual concept of abstract imagery. There is a direct experience and realization - for me, the subjective experience was that I was losing my mind and going insane. . . I would go in and out of this "observer" awareness for over 20 years, until a "higher awareness" was revealed. . . About three years ago, I watched Rupert Spira explain this detached "observer" awareness and I appreciated how beautifully he explained it. Yet then he said "This is the halfway point". I thought "What, there is more?".  . . I couldn't quite grok the "higher" level he spoke of. I sorta got it intellectually, yet didn't *get it*. What he said stuck with me and kept re-appearing in my mind. Every time a subjective sense of an "observer" arose, there was no an appearance of "there is more". . . One day I was hiking in nature and entered this detached "observer" state. . . Then there was an appearance of me alone in a movie theater watching a movie. There was detached awareness of this observer watching the movie. . . This sounds really simple, yet the direct experience of this was really profound. . . For the first time, there was awareness of the "observer" watching the movie (external reality). . . This is awareness aware of itself. . . Then there was an imagine of me peeking through a window observing the person watching the movie (the observer of the observer of the movie). Then an imagine of me standing on the street observing the person peeking through the window. . . Layer after layer appeared until my mind couldn't hold it anymore and it collapsed into Infinity. My mind lost control of imagery and the narrative - and then Nothing/Everything appeared. I would consider this one approach to breakthrough into nondual Nothing/Everything/Infinity. Yet it can be uncomfortable in direct experience. To me, it felt like death as I spiraled away grasping at grounding. . . Yet after "breakthrough" I started laughing. . . 

 

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes there can still be a message shared but it does not belong to a separate individual because the separate individual is an illusion.

...and in your story what you believe in your perception is the 'truth'.

Edited January 28, 2020 by SOUL

[VeganAwake]

What's being explained is there is no my story and there is no your story,  it's just stories being shared with no one lol...

It's completely incomprehensible and wild...❤

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Aaron p]

When getting lost in that which is seen, I've found a good question to ask is: "have I (the observer) been lost, or am I still here?"