Could learning game turn you into a people pleaser with low self-esteem?

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What do you think about Pick Up in stage Blue society?

I live in a place where if you randomly approach a girl, she will most likely be traditional christian type of a girl who doesn't have sex until marriage.

How would you deal with that without moving to another country?

That's difficult.

Although we have an inside joke about Christian girls in the pick up community. The more she professes to be a devout Christian the more of a slut she is

Do not believe for a second that religious girls won't fuck on a dime. But of course overcoming some of that cultural programming can be a pain sometimes and may not be worth it. Do you really want to sleep with a stage Blue girl? Careful what you wish for.

Make your life easy and look for girls who are comfortable with their sexuality.

When you go to a bar/club the whole point is that the girls there are DTF. Anyone in a bar/club is fair game. They aren't there for intellectual stimulation.

The best thing you can do for your game is move to a large city with lots of girls and good nightlife. You're not gonna get good with girls living in the countryside.

[bazera]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's difficult.

Although we have an inside joke about Christian girls in the pick up community. The more she professes to be a devout Christian the more of a slut she is

Do not believe for a second that religious girls won't fuck on a dime. But of course overcoming some of that cultural programming can be a pain sometimes and may not be worth it. Do you really want to sleep with a stage Blue girl? Careful what you wish for.

Yeah, but the fact that the girls you want to approach are probably stage blue, adds more emotional labour to this whole matter, because then you don't know where to find girls who are not stage Blue, except Yoga classes maybe

And in a family-orianted culture, girl's family becomes another problem, because maybe she is not a typical Blue, but chances that her family is traditional are very high. So the new thing to worry about becomes the fact that her brother or father may kill you for having sex with her lol. 

No wander why PU is not a common practice around here. 

Quote

The best thing you can do for your game is move to a large city with lots of girls and good nightlife. You're not gonna get good with girls living in the countryside.

Yeah, the thing is that Georgia (not US state) is a little country, and it's the capital city that is the main biggest city in which I live. All the others are considered as the countryside, so, that doesn't leave many opportunities.

Moving to another country is not really an option at this point because of financial reasons, and also, doing Pick Up in another language, which is not your national one, adds much more difficulty on it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by bazera

[Derek White]

@bazera I'm Indian and I know your pain. 

[Meetjoeblack]

On 1/28/2020 at 3:34 AM, Leo Gura said:

There are right and wrong ways to learn game.

+1

I concur @Leo Gura however, that's what calibration is 

16 hours ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What do you think about Pick Up in stage Blue society?

Stage blue society as in plugged into the matrix? 

[Meetjoeblack]

30 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

A much better strategy to lead conversations is to ask the woman questions about her. This has several benefits:

 

WRONG! 

There is no best way. There's just opening. Breaking the ice. Anything will suffice. Just do it. 

As stated in the game;

STATEMENTS> QUESTIONS. 

Its not even a debate. There's compliance or next! There's down to fuck or next. There's no guarantee but my approach is blow me or blow me out. There's no half stepping or ljbfs. 

There's no backdoor pretend just friends and shock later. From Go! Its apparent, I will take it out the first chance I get. It weeds out attention seeking behavior real fast if she isn't putting out. 

 

Unapologetic FTW! 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, see_on_see said:

A much better strategy to lead conversations is to ask the woman questions about her.

No, that is the worst strategy.

Asking a woman questions is one of the biggest newbie mistakes.

Charismatic people do not interrogate you with questions about yourself. They talk about what they want to talk about without asking for your permission.

[Leo Gura]

Look, triggering attraction in women is a very specific and highly counter-intuitive skill. It has also been well documented and validating in-field.

I have not interest in arguing over what works. I've approached 1000s of women and I've seen what works and what does not. You can do the same and find out. Otherwise speculating about it is a waste of time.

Women are not attracted to what they logically tell themselves they are attracted to. And it's pointless trying to convince women logically about how attraction works. Attraction works exactly how it works and no amount of talk will change that.

You might as well try to convince all men that they shouldn't like boobs. Good luck.

[Meetjoeblack]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's difficult.

Although we have an inside joke about Christian girls in the pick up community. The more she professes to be a devout Christian the more of a slut she is

Do not believe for a second that religious girls won't fuck on a dime. But of course overcoming some of that cultural programming can be a pain sometimes and may not be worth it. Do you really want to sleep with a stage Blue girl? Careful what you wish for.

Make your life easy and look for girls who are comfortable with their sexuality.

When you go to a bar/club the whole point is that the girls there are DTF. Anyone in a bar/club is fair game. They aren't there for intellectual stimulation.

The best thing you can do for your game is move to a large city with lots of girls and good nightlife. You're not gonna get good with girls living in the countryside.

 truth bomb!

There's a ridiculous amount of single moms in the bible belt in heavily Christian areas. Reminds me of Russell Wilson doing the "rite thing" and marrying future's booty call when he could easily find hotter girl's far younger and not with some other man's kid. He's a star QB.

Its annoying but much of the church is cucked. There's a lot of pushing guys to man up and marry the alphas booty call. Meanwhile there's far hotter girl's much younger without some other man's kid. No thanks.

 

@Leo Gura

 I like how you called out Pickup as Orange and yet, You still see it has value.

Its more annoying when people moralize not doing pickup when in fact, they got stage fright. There's a Netflix documentary on low testosterone. Very informative. I think testosterone and approaching coincide. As in, men who approach and pull have higher not lower testosterone.

[Meetjoeblack]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that is the worst strategy.

Asking a woman questions is one of the biggest newbie mistakes.

Charismatic people do not interrogate you with questions about yourself. They talk about what they want to talk about without asking for your permission.

Lmfao we said that Same thing.

There's a hilarious element of game and mental masturbation. You see it in the moralizing and virtue signaling but doesn't approach. Doesn't pull. Never seen a vjj before. Has a opinion.

 

Statements > questions.

Infield is GOAT.

There's nothing like it. There's no compromise. A man enters game infield. There's reddit sub with guys ripping content. Guys stealing stuff vi's torrent. Never approached ever!

Breaking rapport is king. Seeding anything contrary to PC. Not necessarily being offensive just cause.

Its ideal to live your truth. Speak your truth.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Meetjoeblack said:

I like how you called out Pickup as Orange and yet, You still see it has value.

Every stage is necessary, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

[Derek White]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Look, triggering attraction in women is a very specific and highly counter-intuitive skill. It has also been well documented and validating in-field.

I have not interest in arguing over what works. I've approached 1000s of women and I've seen what works and what does not. You can do the same and find out. Otherwise speculating about it is a waste of time.

Women are not attracted to what they logically tell themselves they are attracted to. And it's pointless trying to convince women logically about how attraction works. Attraction works exactly how it works and no amount of talk will change that.

You might as well try to convince all men that they shouldn't like boobs. Good luck.

Yes!!!! hahah

[TheAlchemist]

@see_on_see Every skill you have, has been developed at some point. Of course when we begin building a new skill it feels inauthentic. But through mastery of that skill it becomes a part of us and becomes who we are. 

Being authentic is not about staying safely where we are, it's about following that call to adventure that comes from deep within, going beyond our current comfort zones.  That's where all growth happens.

Sure, if you suddenly become hyper confident you won't need game. But that's not because you don't do game, the principles of attraction still apply, you're just doing it maybe even without you noticing it. Most people have to build this skillset by practicing, facing our fears and becoming grounded in our sexuality. Eventually it become's who we are and it doesn't feel any more inauthentic than brushing our teeth. 

[mandyjw]

On 1/31/2020 at 0:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

Although we have an inside joke about Christian girls in the pick up community. The more she professes to be a devout Christian the more of a slut she is

 

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Women are not attracted to what they logically tell themselves they are attracted to. And it's pointless trying to convince women logically about how attraction works. Attraction works exactly how it works and no amount of talk will change that.

Isn't everyone attracted to what they want to integrate or free themselves of? If you were raised to believe that sex is wrong, you want to free yourself of that paradigm. Being told you shouldn't do something by people who are trying to control you only makes it more appealing. As Alan Watts says the true purpose of puritanism is to make sex more interesting. 

Sexual attraction is one of the most powerful ways in which people are taken over by the subconscious mind. The subconscious is One, so it only wants one thing, integration. Once you understand this, tap into the subconscious and become aware of your own desires as limited manifestations of one Desire, you see that everything is symbolic.

So I wonder, why would a man use logic and thinking to manipulate his behavior, in order to bypass the woman's own logic and purposefully manipulate a woman's subconscious? Of course from a higher perspective the logical mind and subconscious are one, and both parties are mutually aware and attracting their own experiences. But still, couldn't this from a certain limited perspective be seen as a form of psychic or spiritual rape? The other effect of that is that you've cock(psyche) blocked yourself from the true satisfaction you actually desired of union with your own subconscious. 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by mandyjw

[Meetjoeblack]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Every stage is necessary, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Well said.

 

9 hours ago, mandyjw said:

 I wonder, why would a man use logic and thinking to manipulate his behavior, in order to bypass the woman's own logic and purposefully manipulate a woman's subconscious? Of course from a higher perspective the logical mind and subconscious are one, and both parties are mutually aware and attracting their own experiences. But still, couldn't this from a certain limited perspective be seen as a form of psychic or spiritual rape? The other effect of that is that you've cock(psyche) blocked yourself from the true satisfaction you actually desired of union with your own subconscious. 

 

That is like asking, why do women divorce rape? More accurately, 80% of divorce initiated by women.

The answer being personal self interest. That and morons keep marrying idiocy. Men want to smash. Women want money. Shocker.

 

[Meetjoeblack]

17 hours ago, see_on_see said:

The thing is, I agree with the things being said regarding attraction. I wasn't really trying to argue about that. 

But I guess what I meant to say, and overall what I'm trying to say when I post in this kind of threads, is I don't really buy into this "performance" thing. This thing of saying any random shit and acting all extroverted and charismatic, just because on the level of attraction it does the job. It obviously works, but it also feels like a bit of an act. I guess it goes back to that thing of being authentic and making an authentic connection. I just find it unnecessary and over time as I matured I found myself dropping layers upon layers of it when I saw that most girls (at least the type of girl I'm into) still get attracted, actually even more, when you act "normal" , without all those exaggerated behaviors. 

Or maybe I'm just a chode,

Because a mans chode till he becomes. Women are. Men must become.

Don't feel bad. 80% of men are chode and women won't fuck till 1. They learn game 2. Alpha stops blowing up her phones.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Meetjoeblack

[mandyjw]

15 minutes ago, Meetjoeblack said:

That is like asking, why do women divorce rape? More accurately, 80% of divorce initiated by women.

Women are the keepers of the relationship. We start em', and we end em'. Relationships are about emotional connection and because emotions are typically the woman's strength she takes the lead in the relationship. But because women don't understand the power of their emotions or the fact that they are responsible for their own emotions, they often fall into a pattern of blaming their spouse for their own being unfulfilled and seek to abandon the relationship. This is all just an effect of living in a society that doesn't value emotional connection or even happiness over measurable and external indicators of success. 

 

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

This is all just an effect of living in a society that doesn't value emotional connection or even happiness over measurable and external indicators of success. 

I had thought about it like this before. 

I’m trying to imagine the criteria Western society would use to describe a “successful relationship”. Here are some things I think many people in society might think is to be a successful relationship. 

— How long together. A lot of people value commitment and longevity. If a couple was together 50 years, I think a lot of people would consider that successful.

— Absence of internal problems. Things like cheating, excessive arguing, domestic violence, couples therapy, separations would be seen as unsuccessful.

—- Overcoming external problems together. Things like working through financial difficulties , death of a child, miscarriage, overcoming cancer would be generally seen as success. 

— Creating something big together. Things like creating a business together, starting a nonprofit, creating a family. 

— Doing a lot of things together. Traveling on trips together, going to the symphony, concerts, community events, taking dancing lessons together etc.

— Keeping the passion alive. Couples that have been together for years and still have chemistry - they still make each other laugh, are playful, regular sex, have passion and look like they want to be together and are enjoying their time together.

— Mutual growth and support. How much did the couple grow and evolve together? Did they make each other better? Did they challenge each other to grow and support each other during that growth. An example of this might be during an achievement award. The person being honored may tell everyone how this was only possible with the help of their partner. That they wouldn’t be the person they are today without their partner. 

— They genuinely care about each other’s welfare. 

 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv Ideally there's no judging or measuring at all, just appreciation/passion/sharing a vision. 

Actually, all partnerships and relationships should be valued that way in my opinion. 

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw I agree. I was exploring another area, yet I didn't present my ideas very well. Thank you for your thoughts. 

[Hardkill]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

No, I never said it was all suffering and pain. I said SOME nights. Other times it can fun, exciting, positive, etc. Overall it's an adventure. Don't think of it as some negative chore you must do.

I don't understand why you need to feel suicidal about it. If you're doing the work, there's plenty of hope and no need for suicide. You will get laid if you go out enough. I guarantee it.

Oh okay. Well, I am actually do believe that I can inevitably get laid again. In fact, I actually did get my first girlfriend ever from cold approaching out on the street using a direct approach style. We've actually been together for almost 2 years now. However, I had to go through hundreds of rejections and tried practically all kinds of ways and avenues to meeting women before I finally got her. Although, I think my relationship could be ending soon because of some personal things going on lately with me and her. So, I plan to go back out in the field and game women if I do break up with my girlfriend.

However, I worry about dealing with the frustration and pain of not being able to break through even if I did approach at least 30-40 girls a week and tried to analyze each interaction I had. Also, how much time do you or did you spend cataloging and analyzing each interaction you have or had with each girl, Leo?