Still confused with how Spirituality works with self-development

[Javfly33]

 I'm discovering I as a self do not exist and this (thoughts, ideas, sensations, feelings of being like this or that) is just a mechanical process. It's becoming to me quite clear that nobody "owns" this process. 

However this "process" shows certain traits of malfunctioning. What Western psychology calls self-esteem or confidence issues etc. Again, nobody really suffers this lack of self esteem. This process just creates an illusion of an I suffering this lack of self esteem.

So I'm confused. If I try to have control over this life, I'm playing the game of self-delusion, if I don't, I settle for having a malfunctioning mind.

I guess if I would be totally awake I could actually let go of any desire to self-develop my mind because it would be clear nobody is victim of the mind. So really who cares if any malfunctioning trail arises since there's nobody there to suffer it? But since I'm not there yet, I feel this ilusion of self should keep having thoughts of control and strategizing to "fix itself". Is this right? Or is it falling to a trap?

I just not sure if I don't do anything how the mind will stop being malfunctioning. I'm sure I need to do a lot of shadow work and for that I need strategy and control

Then again, I'm not sure control and strategy actually is what gets results in self-development. It it would be that simple everybody would have a clean and purified mind so it cant be that simple. Help me out guys.

 

 

[VeganAwake]

Walk the middle path....❤

Stay grounded and open-minded simultaneously.

It's a paradox because you can still spend some time on the self, while still being aware its an illusion.

It's okay to make the station wagon a little more comfortable... just don't try to turn it into a Rolls-Royce because it isn't yours...?

 

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, Maximus said:

I run into this problem too of accepting who I am vs. making progress in reality. I feel the latter is an illusion but I agree it is the basis of self-development and basic material success is a nice experience. I would go with whatever one you have more energy for. Both are rare in their full  completion. If there is a conflict choose one that is easier for your current energy level. I don't think there is a wrong one. Also, sometimes completion of one leads to another. For example, a massive retreat can oscillate into a massive idea, or being burnt out from completing an idea can lead to a massive retreat.

 

21 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Walk the middle path....❤

Stay grounded and open-minded simultaneously.

It's a paradox because you can still spend some time on the self, while still being aware its an illusion.

It's okay to make the station wagon a little more comfortable... just don't try to turn it into a Rolls-Royce because it isn't yours...?

 

Wow thanks for both answers they really help and juicy answers they are 

[Aaron p]

@Javfly33 justttttttt be very careful. There's a huge difference between thinking you don't exist and realising you don't exist. The process of egoic death is extremely slow and you must dip yourself into the acid of self enquiry every day for hours and days and weeks and years to slowly dissolve yourself. And when you actually start to *realise* that you don't exist there will no longer be physical reality. Just consider what that actually means....consider the fucking gravity that the phrase "physical reality literally doesn't exist" carries with it.

This is vital because the mind will convince you that you've understood. But you will only have created an idea *about* the truth,.as opposed to a realisation of the actual truth. 

Your one and only job here is to become God. To do this "you" must die. To so this you must do hardcore spiritual practises. Find the one who is asking these questions. Find yourself and watch him. Then think. Who is watching this one. Follow your intuition

[LfcCharlie4]

@Aaron p You don't necessarily need hours upon hours of practices, you might but if you believe you have to work hard and seek forever, you could end up pushing yourself further away from the truth. 

The truth is always right here, right now. This is it. Not 100 hours in the future once you've done your due diligence of self-inquiry & other practices. 

Now, I'm not saying these practices aren't incredibly useful, however, if you believe you have to do it for months on end, that will be true for you.

Sure, even post-awakening there's integration work to be done, however, I think it's dangerous suggesting you'll only find the truth after hundreds of hours of work when reality is only ever right here and right now. Enlightenment isn't some future attainment, it's always right here, right now. 

As I said, I'm not suggesting to stop self Inquiry or anything else, it's an amazing practice, but what you've said sounds like it's coming from a hardcore seeker that believes they must struggle their way to the truth, I also used to think that, but if anything it hindered progress, as I believed it would always come after the next book, the next video, the next meditation session, the next trip etc etc. 

Always Now, Always Here. This Is It. 

[Javfly33]

10 hours ago, Aaron p said:

@Javfly33 justttttttt be very careful. There's a huge difference between thinking you don't exist and realising you don't exist. The process of egoic death is extremely slow and you must dip yourself into the acid of self enquiry every day for hours and days and weeks and years to slowly dissolve yourself. And when you actually start to *realise* that you don't exist there will no longer be physical reality. Just consider what that actually means....consider the fucking gravity that the phrase "physical reality literally doesn't exist" carries with it.

This is vital because the mind will convince you that you've understood. But you will only have created an idea *about* the truth,.as opposed to a realisation of the actual truth. 

Your one and only job here is to become God. To do this "you" must die. To so this you must do hardcore spiritual practises. Find the one who is asking these questions. Find yourself and watch him. Then think. Who is watching this one. Follow your intuition

@Aaron p yes...thanks for this message. I can definitely see the mind is falling/creating the trap, I had small realizations but today I woke up, I saw a post in social media about my ex (lol what a sincronicity because it was ages since I saw post of her) and I felt a little bad. So in that moment I saw my.ego telling the story that "oh wait but human beings do not exist" I can see the mind repeated this in a form of believe. Even if this believe is coming from a clear realization, now the fact is coming from belief/memory. I am actually not conscious that I do not exist. I think...when I self inquiry who is talking I actually can't sort out who is...so in a sense I see this is real but in another sense...I'm still coming from belief...yeah I'll be on the watch out. Thanks

[LfcCharlie4]

@Javfly33  Be careful not to spiritual bypass here. 

Even post-awakening you'll still have feelings and thoughts. 

If you feel sad about your ex, you should definitely feel that sadness and face it head-on, open yourself up and allow yourself to feel sad, feelings are natural and normal. 

Don't just wash over any 'negative' emotions you have with a veneer of Non-Duality, that's just another avoidance strategy. 

[Pallero]

There is no contradition between spirituality and self-development. They are two different things on different levels. But there is a danger of spiritual bypass. Spiritual bypass is when you use spiritual knowledge to make yourself rise above your self-development, because dealing with your issues seems too difficult or scary. So for example when you have a fear, instead of dealing with the fear, you use a spiritual statement like "fear is an illusion" to make yourself think that the fear isn't real. That is not a good idea. It will make you a "zen devil" in Leo's terms. In other words, a person who is deluding themselves that they're spiritual.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Pallero well said, I see this so much on here, people trying to run a marathon before they can even walk round the block. 
 

The basics are and always will be important, enlightened or not, you’re still going to abide as the self, Through this human vessel.

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Javfly33  Be careful not to spiritual bypass here. 

Even post-awakening you'll still have feelings and thoughts. 

If you feel sad about your ex, you should definitely feel that sadness and face it head-on, open yourself up and allow yourself to feel sad, feelings are natural and normal. 

Don't just wash over any 'negative' emotions you have with a veneer of Non-Duality, that's just another avoidance strategy. 

@LfcCharlie4 Yeah I was exactly saying that, I am aware "ego" this morning was using a belief to not feel negative emotion/pain

[Aaron p]

8 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Aaron p yes...thanks for this message. I can definitely see the mind is falling/creating the trap, I had small realizations but today I woke up, I saw a post in social media about my ex (lol what a sincronicity because it was ages since I saw post of her) and I felt a little bad. So in that moment I saw my.ego telling the story that "oh wait but human beings do not exist" I can see the mind repeated this in a form of believe. Even if this believe is coming from a clear realization, now the fact is coming from belief/memory. I am actually not conscious that I do not exist. I think...when I self inquiry who is talking I actually can't sort out who is...so in a sense I see this is real but in another sense...I'm still coming from belief...yeah I'll be on the watch out. Thanks

@Javfly33 an easy way to save a lot of mistakes is to just believe nothing, disbelieve nothing. When your listening to leo and me let it go in one ear and out the other. What the spirit wants you to remember, you'll remember. Don't believe anything. Don't move in any direction. Only look for yourself. And in this process *the* most important thing is following your intuition. I call it the voice of God. Some people say "follow your bliss". If you choose to, you can hear and feel where you are meant to go. Even during self enquiry, relax all your efforts and thoughts every now and again and operate *purely* by intuition. This is of instrumental importance.

 

[Lento]

It's really complicated and it's very simple! You don't have to do anything because it doesn't matter. You're free to do whatever you want. If you actually really truly want something, there will be a desire that will move you, the desire will take over and remove you from the picture, you won't be existing at all, and you won't be asking these questions. You're only asking these questions because you are afraid. The fear is manifesting through your questions which are meant to make sure that you (Mr. Ego i.e. imaginary self) won't die. But you can already see how futile that is! This imaginary self is still in control and it needs to die, but it's trying to survive through asking such questions. There's no answer here. You have to die. Of course, don't go suicide, you're smarter than that.

[Nahm]

@Javfly33

Ever played a video game in which you acquired stuff along the journey, developed (unlocked) skills, etc? 

Ever notice you are not that character in the video game, as ‘into it’ or ‘attached’ as you might have been to enjoying the game?

It’s light, on a screen. What’s the light? The screen. 

Are you the character (light), or the screen?

Do you come & go?

Does all that appears to come & go, come & go, within awareness? 

....Awareness, come & go?

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Javfly33

Ever played a video game in which you acquired stuff along the journey, developed (unlocked) skills, etc? 

Ever notice you are not that character in the video game, as ‘into it’ or ‘attached’ as you might have been to enjoying the game?

It’s light, on a screen. What’s the light? The screen. 

Are you the character (light), or the screen?

Do you come & go?

Does all that appears to come & go, come & go, within awareness? 

....Awareness, come & go?

@Nahm Haha no... I Am always here 

edit: In fact is not even an I. Is just Amness. Is impossible to not be Amness 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Javfly33

[Nahm]

@Javfly33 Yep. Inherent, intrinsic, innocence...amnesty. 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2020-01-27 at 11:49 PM, Javfly33 said:

I guess if I would be totally awake I could actually let go of any desire to self-develop my mind because it would be clear nobody is victim of the mind. So really who cares if any malfunctioning trail arises since there's nobody there to suffer it? But since I'm not there yet, I feel this ilusion of self should keep having thoughts of control and strategizing to "fix itself". Is this right? Or is it falling to a trap?

If you can see that it is an illusion all it takes is the willingness to let go of it. You don't need to be fully awake to do that just decide between truth and illusion.