Leo Gura PUA

[Gili Trawangan]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Good to know you're not a rapist

LOL, the Chuck Norris gif gets me every time.

[Dumuzzi]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Men have been hitting on women since the dawn of time. It ain't about to stop. It's merely a question of: Will they do it skillfully or unskillfully?

What's more disgusting is online incels who are too afraid to even talk to a woman, blame women, and then go shoot up an elementary school because they can't get laid. But of course even that is not disgusting. It's totally understandable.

You have to appreciate how strong the sex drive is in men. It will not just sit quietly. Either it will be channeled in a healthy way or an extremely unhealthy way. Men who can't figure out a healthy way of getting laid will create social disturbance, start wars and fascist movements. In this sense RSD is helping the world to avoid that.

Those are good points, on the other hand, it opens up a can of worms.

The very essence of spirituality is that you control those urges and channel them towards a spiritual purpose, by transmuting those energies. That is literally the first step, which is why so many traditions demand celibacy. 

The entire point of Tantra, for instance, is to take that incredibly strong sexual urge and use it to lift yourself up spiritually. The Lifestyle of a PUA is completely incompatible with that objective, particularly since most of them are highly promiscuous. Tantra does allow a partner to practice with at the higher levels, but the purpose isn't pleasure or satisfying the sex drive, in fact it is precisely the opposite.

Also, traditionally, the male sex drive was controlled through legal prostitution and there was a sharp distinction between good girls (those for marriage) and bad girls (prostitutes, bar girls, singers, dancers, actresses, etc...) who were fair game. Not many would have dared to be disrespectful to a good girl, duels for disrespecting the honour of a woman were common back then. The current trend towards treating all women as if they were prostitutes up for anything is a moral cesspool and a distinct characteristic of the last innings of the Kali Yuga.

[Girzo]

3 hours ago, Dumuzzi said:

The current trend towards treating all women as if they were prostitutes up for anything

Explain to me how chating up a person or dancing and having fun with her at a club is treating her as a prostitute?

I think you are exaggerating by a lot.

[Dumuzzi]

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

Explain to me how chating up a person or dancing and having fun with her at a club is treating her as a prostitute?

I think you are exaggerating by a lot.

You completely missed my point and I did not say that. What I am saying is that there used to be a sharp distinction between "good girls" and "bad girls" and in some countries there still is. The whole hook-up and pick-up culture that has captured the West lately has completely blurred those distinctions. 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Leo Gura Actually you are right and thanks for your advice. But, I dont crave sex as much. I dont feel needy towards sex. I can probably sometimes, but its not the root of my neediness.

I have a massive ego and I feel neediness towards trying to show her im the best as cheesy as it sounds. I feel needy towards trying to make all the tricks and escalate from one stage to the other. Cuz if not, why are we dating? My mind gets calculative and hyper aware as to not fail the opportunity to prove my game. 

But again, this only happens after I have being thinking about pickup, learning about it, setting my mind to do cold approach and then setting a date. My anxiety is towards not failing. 

I have never been needy with my family and it had happen in very few occassions that I have been needy. Even with my closest friends of years ago. But this doesnt always happens, is suddenly ocasional.

I figured out I cause my own neediness. Its self created by expectation towards perfectionism. 

I will watch your videos on this 2 topics.

Cuz the thing also is if Im not aware of certain things to get her attracted, like touching her and flirting, the relationship will set into a friendly frame or boring one. But doing the touch has to be done in a perfect natural manner to create tension.

Meanwhile, if im not thinking about anything, just being, I getter better results in general. But still, there are a few things that are to be planned like finally getting her to your bed and not messing it up. That last move makes me get anxious as for what will be her reaction. Making me needy and switching the whole frame from abundant to scarce. 

Its a tricky thing. Thats why I call it a "weird neediness". 

For example, lets say the girl shows signs she likes me and the dating is doing good. My mind goes like, you gotta turn her on now and quick. You dont have time to go on 3 dates to get laid. Be the best now! And there starts my neediness. I dont want to wait. Its like results now! Even if I consciously know it takes time. Is not the sex. Its like, you have invested too much energy on learning this stuff. Get the result now!

If I get on more than 3 dates without sex or at least a blowjob, she might friendzone me. So I have the pressure on to prove and sexualize as quickly as possible as to not waste my precious time failing. 

Any suggestion toward this specific aspect? 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Dumuzzi said:

The very essence of spirituality is that you control those urges and channel them towards a spiritual purpose, by transmuting those energies. That is literally the first step, which is why so many traditions demand celibacy

You don't need to stop dating or having sex to awaken. Many awakened people have sex. In fact I would say most of them.

[Girzo]

5 hours ago, Dumuzzi said:

What I am saying is that there used to be a sharp distinction between "good girls" and "bad girls" and in some countries there still is. The whole hook-up and pick-up culture that has captured the West lately has completely blurred those distinctions. 

If our goal is to create a more conscious and loving society then blurring the lines is great news.

One arbitrary distinction that limits human behaviour less.

Learn to thrive in new environment instead of praising an old solution that is no longer relatable.

I understand that the old solution had it's plus sides and the current reality may be more confusing for some, but it's nevertheless a better situation.

[Nahm]

@Kalki Avatar Good luck not blowing this off right out of the gate ? but...give Abraham Hicks a solid listen or two. It’s your ‘two birds’ in one. 

@Dumuzzi Of what you said...what of it is belief, what of it is conjecture & influence, what of it is your own judgements (which seem not to be, by assigning authority to another)...what of it can you honestly say, is actually absolute truth? 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Pell Nice one. Will read it. 

[Kalki Avatar]

 

@Pell@Roy To get laid by being yourself is easier said than done. You still need techniques, planning and social awareness to make the right move at the right time. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Kalki Avatar said:

planning and social awareness to make the right move at the right time.

This is very true if you want to get laid consistently and not just accidentally.

[Dumuzzi]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need to stop dating or having sex to awaken. Many awakened people have sex. In fact I would say most of them.

That is true, but even in those cases, monogamy or more accurately, marriage is recommended. The idea that some enlightened sage or Boddhisattva would go around picking up random girls is preposterous. Certainly no mainstream religious or spiritual figure would contemplate sex outside marriage.

There is quite a lot of sex on the tantric or Left-hand path, at certain stages of the process. Even temple orgies were known to have happened, but this all has a very specific religious purpose, there is a ritual involved and the people participating are carefully selected.

 

45 minutes ago, Girzo said:

If our goal is to create a more conscious and loving society then blurring the lines is great news.

One arbitrary distinction that limits human behaviour less.

Learn to thrive in new environment instead of praising an old solution that is no longer relatable.

I understand that the old solution had it's plus sides and the current reality may be more confusing for some, but it's nevertheless a better situation.

It is most demonstrably not a better situation. Society as a whole is collapsing before our eyes, not least through crashing birth rates and the current situation does not benefit anyone, except, ironically, pick-up artists. You really have to live in and experience different cultures, with very different social and sexual mores to understand why this is. I have lived in many different cultures throughout my life, such as Poland, Hungary, Ireland, the UK, Singapore, India and Thailand as well as travelled extensively, which gives me a unique insight into what works and what doesn't and what the differences actually do to people and society in practice. It would take several books to explain.

30 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Kalki Avatar Good luck not blowing this off right out of the gate ? but...give Abraham Hicks a solid listen or two. It’s your ‘two birds’ in one. 

@Dumuzzi Of what you said...what of it is belief, what of it is conjecture & influence, what of it is your own judgements (which seem not to be, by assigning authority to another)...what of it can you honestly say, is actually absolute truth? 

Some of it comes from my own experiences, some from those of my friends and extensive conversations we've had about the topic and a lot from other sources, such as by studying history and societies in different historical time periods, as well as the similarities and differences between different societies in various parts over the world over time. The topic is so vast, that I can barely hope to outline even the basics of it.

But, just to give you a taster, in Thailand for instance, it is common for girls to stay virgins until marriage, even if marriage never comes. So there are literally a ton of 40-year old virgins over there, who did not get married for one reason or another, therefore they never had sex. I used to date a girl like that, she was 35 at the time and she never had sex with anyone before me. When we slept together, it was assumed by her that we were now committed to each other and would be getting married soon, in fact she started pressuring me on that front almost immediately and there was considerable pressure from her parents too. In the end, our relationship didn't work out. However, I've heard many stories from Thai-Farang (White Western Foreigner) relationships, where the guy assumed they could just lay a girl and dump her. Such a move is incredibly risky and could end in retribution from the girl or her family. I've even heard of stories where the girl's father took out a hit on the guy who disrespected her daughter in that way. This is just to illustrate the good girl - bad girl dichotomy I talked about. You can play around with girls you might pick up in a bar, but you'd better not disrespect a good girl or you'll most definitely be sorry. Admittedly, things are now changing due to western influences, but even today, there are facebook groups for Thai girls for instance where they expose guys that are "players" and warn others away from them. 

This is just one example, but I could give you many others on how social mores vary across time and cultures.

[Emerald]

@Dumuzzi "It is most demonstrably not a better situation. Society as a whole is collapsing before our eyes, not least through crashing birth rates and the current situation does not benefit anyone, except, ironically, pick-up artists. You really have to live in and experience different cultures, with very different social and sexual mores to understand why this is. I have lived in many different cultures throughout my life, such as Poland, Hungary, Ireland, the UK, Singapore, India and Thailand as well as travelled extensively, which gives me a unique insight into what works and what doesn't and what the differences actually do to people and society in practice. It would take several books to explain."

 

Currently, there is a lot of dissolution of old social norms and mores. And though this can create issues, it's actually a sign of positive change. You have to break some eggs to make an omelette. And right now, the right eggs are being broken for us to create a fabulous omelette that more people prefer. Raw eggs are not good for most people.

It is the nature of the relationship between order and chaos. Order emerges from chaos which is the primordial soup. And then, once that order no longer works, it dissolves yet again into chaos... the same chaos from which more expansive order will emerge. So, we're always in flux between order and chaos. This is why the dissolution of old social norms and structures is wonderful news, even if its uncomfortable for those that the old order has worked for in the past. So, it will be more difficult for those who liked the old order.

So, reactionary views that seek to resurrect old and dead structures... are trying to put the goldfish back into a bowl that it's already outgrown.

I liken the way that order and chaos works together as being like the life-cycle of a butterfly. 

First they start out with a simpler order as a caterpillar. Then, once the caterpillar has reached its point of maximum expansion and enters the cocoon, that's where the chaos begins.

Inside the cocoon, the caterpillar is dissolved into primordial soup. And then, from that primordial soup, new order constellates and a butterfly begins to grow from the soup. And it eventually emerges from the cocoon an entirely different being.

The same thing is happening now on the societal level. And so many people, especially those that the old order (caterpillar phase), worked for are urging everyone to go back to being a caterpillar. But it won't work... because it is against nature to resist the evolving social order of humanity.

It is time for us to be a butterfly. So, old sexual mores have to go out the window. And we can create new mores that are more conscious and make more sense.

Allow entropy to do its work, so that new things can grow.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Emerald

[Nahm]

@Dumuzzi

“Some of it comes from my own experiences, some from those of my friends and extensive conversations we've had about the topic and a lot from other sources, such as by studying history and societies in different historical time periods, as well as the similarities and differences between different societies in various parts over the world over time. The topic is so vast, that I can barely hope to outline even the basics of it.

But, just to give you a taster, in Thailand for instance, it is common for girls to stay virgins until marriage, even if marriage never comes. So there are literally a ton of 40-year old virgins over there, who did not get married for one reason or another, therefore they never had sex. I used to date a girl like that, she was 35 at the time and she never had sex with anyone before me. When we slept together, it was assumed by her that we were now committed to each other and would be getting married soon, in fact she started pressuring me on that front almost immediately and there was considerable pressure from her parents too. In the end, our relationship didn't work out. However, I've heard many stories from Thai-Farang (White Western Foreigner) relationships, where the guy assumed they could just lay a girl and dump her. Such a move is incredibly risky and could end in retribution from the girl or her family. I've even heard of stories where the girl's father took out a hit on the guy who disrespected her daughter in that way. This is just to illustrate the good girl - bad girl dichotomy I talked about. You can play around with girls you might pick up in a bar, but you'd better not disrespect a good girl or you'll most definitely be sorry. Admittedly, things are now changing due to western influences, but even today, there are facebook groups for Thai girls for instance where they expose guys that are "players" and warn others away from them. 

This is just one example, but I could give you many others on how social mores vary across time and cultures.”

 

But can you see what that actually is....a thought, arising now...believed...influencing you? Not saying it is right or wrong, or good or bad, just wondering if you see what I’m saying here. 

[Dumuzzi]

@Emerald I guess that is that standard progressive argument, but the facts on the ground show it doesn't work. It's rather a moot point anyway, because by the end of the century most "Western" countries will be strict Islamic theocracies. It will actually be a well-deserved outcome, since Western society decided to commit suicide.

@Nahm No, I'm really not seeing your point, sorry. The question is, are you seeing mine?

I have a feeling that few people here have even read the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabharata or any of the Puranas and can see the societal destruction and moral turpitude prophesied to happen in the Kali Yuga. I see every sign of it happening now.

[Nahm]

@Dumuzzi Yes, I’ve read them. Sometimes we forget that the writings are someone’s words, ideas, interpretations...and we believe it is true. 

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, Dumuzzi said:

@Emerald I guess that is that standard progressive argument, but the facts on the ground show it doesn't work. It's rather a moot point anyway, because by the end of the century most "Western" countries will be strict Islamic theocracies. It will actually be a well-deserved outcome, since Western society decided to commit suicide.

The process of human evolution bends toward integration. So, that's very unlikely that the order that will emerge is that of an Islamic Theocracy, as that's an older form of social structure that doesn't work very well in a world that's rational/post-rational. Theocracies grow out of agrarian patriarchal society... not industrial patriarchal societies, and not post-industrial semi-patriarchal societies like all the first world nations of today are. 

Western society as we know it will dissolve... but it's already so far away from Western society as its historically described. The fact of the matter is the Western values have yielded us lots of growth and lots of degeneration. But it has reached a point of diminishing returns, which is why there are so many structures dissolving. So it will and is and always has been evolving the whole time. It's not as though you can look at Western society 100 years ago and Western society now and see the same society. Things are different.

So, Western society has already dissolved and regrown and dissolved and regrown many times. And it will continue to do so because everything in this world is in constant flux. And those that are unable to evolve will thrash against these natural changes and cling feverishly and desperately to the dead orders of the past. But if your battle is against nature, you will lose and just waste a ton of energy in the process.

The wave is coming. You can surf it or be swept up and drown in it. Those are the two options.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Emerald

[Dumuzzi]

@Nahm Ok, then do you remember the prophecies regarding what the Kali Yuga is going to be like, especially towards the end? One of the characteristics of this dark age is that marriage will gradually decline and in the end man and woman will only be held together by the bond of sexuality, like animals. Nobody will heed the teachings of religion and will do as they please until even the memory of those teachings will disappear. In fact this thread is a perfectly good demonstration of that already happening. 

[Forestluv]

@Dumuzzi It's relative to context, objective and person. We could say "In order to reach an objective of abc, an environment of xyz is generally best.". . . 

In order to run a sub 3hr marathon, running 60 miles a week with a mixture of speed intervals and endurance is best. Of course this will vary from person to person. Or, in order to learn Spanish, it is best to live in a Spanish-speaking country. Again, this is a relative generality for most people. Some people could have panic attacks traveling and it would actually make it worse to live in a foreign culture.

You are also setting up a relative construct: "In order to practice spirituality, it is best to transform sexual urges to spiritual energy and to be celibate". This is relative to your definition of "spirituality". There is no objective universal thing of "spirituality". As well, whatever this relative "spirituality" thing is, the mechanism of attaining it is also relative. The dictionary defines spiritual as "relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. One could say that sex is a "physical" thing. Thus, based on this definition - celibacy is necessary to achieve spirit, rather than soul.

Alternatively, some people define "spiritual" as transcending attachment/identification to an illusory self. For some people, sex could be a deterrent to spirituality. Sex could be a distraction. Yet for others, being celibate would the distraction to objective. And for others, sex would be beneficial. I have had many mystical sexual experiences that were "spiritual" experiences. These sexual experiences were as mystical, insightful and transformative as any I have had during meditation, yoga, psychedelics etc. 

 

[Dumuzzi]

@Emerald It's simply a question of math. Western and increasingly, all post-modern societies are shrinking and disappearing fast (inlcluding East Asia now) with birth rates well below replacement levels. Immigration and much higher birth rates in highly religious traditional societies is taking care of the rest. I wouldn't say I'm pleased about it, but I certainly won't shed any tears over the death of Western Civilisation. Its ongoing suicide and eventual disappearance is entirely self-inflicted.