Attachment Styles

[DrewNows]

@Martin123 have you watched this one from the Moo man? 

[Martin123]

@DrewNows Hi Drew, thanks for the input and sharing. Yes I believe I have seen this particular video from the 'Moo-man'.

I have also witnessed the controversy of numerous allegations of sexual-misconduct and cult-like behaviour from the Moo-man. While Mooji certainly seems to have some form of wisdom, it is absolutely essential for all the ones who have felt oppressed by his spiritual supremacy to 'Moo' back at him to no longer tolerate cycles of victimization. 

[PenguinPablo]

@Nahm no I agree with you.

 

ive been using this whole psychoanalytic, attachment theory perspective for a while to figure things out and I think I’ve become less happy. The time for mourning about my past has ran its course. How many times will I keep replaying the same story over and over in my head? How many more days of my life will be lost holding onto this sadness, fear, resentment?

I get it. I saw the movie enough times already to know. I started contemplating the drawbacks of feeling like this. Applying it to every thing. Every time mind creation started to make me miserable time and time again yesterday when was breaking down. When my mind became clear of all these chaotic waves, a profound bliss arose.
 

I will continue to do so as this chapter has just begun.

 

 

 

[Nahm]

@PenguinPablo Yay. For. You. Attachment to attachment is a slippery slope, and I think you glimpsed that now. Feel the feeling, notice tendency to ‘go into a thought story’ in avoidance of the feeling. Let the feeling run through you, and purify. 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Nahm no I agree with you.

 

ive been using this whole psychoanalytic, attachment theory perspective for a while to figure things out and I think I’ve become less happy. The time for mourning about my past has ran its course. How many times will I keep replaying the same story over and over in my head? How many more days of my life will be lost holding onto this sadness, fear, resentment?

 

 

This in itself may have helped.  These things can sometimes run deep in the subconscious mind and eventually after beating it to death with, for example CBT like they use to treat OCD (just an example) the mind gets tired of it and realizes it has to let it go..so going through it experientially can in itself can be a healing process.. 

 

[ElvisN]

51 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Btw, it will certainly be addressed in what I recommended, both in the direct experience of choosing what you yourself want, and reading the recommended book. In noticing the resistant thoughts, and inspecting them, writing about feelings, using the emotional scale...the understanding you are wanting directly arises. 

While what you are saying is true, my point for the book recommendation was that, it teaches necessary information and skills that are essential for overcoming anxious attachment. There are a lot of details to the issue and much to be understood from it, much like the way you recommended The Six Pillars for knowledge on self esteem. I had read briefly on attachment styles years back, but didn't realize how important it was for me to overcome my problem. I know I keep harping on the book, but it's hard for me to communicate it's importance if you've not read it @PenguinPablo.

 

Love you Nahm <3

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by ElvisN

[Nahm]

@ElvisN If there was some miscommunication, to be clear, learning is great. Read books. Read that book. Not a word in them is true about you. Kind of a, Both.  I love you Elvis! Of course, I’m picturing Elvis Presley, but I love you too. If that’s you’re real name, freakin sweet. 

[ElvisN]

@Nahm No miscommunication.

And nah, my real name is not Elvis. My name is Vishal

[DrewNows]

@Martin123 Are you bringing the allegations up in relation to the value in understanding attachment styles or do they really concern you? 
 

Personally I learning attachment styles in the forum, partly from you, it helped me significantly in “coming to terms” with the past, gaining some understanding and finding self forgiveness/acceptance, so I’m definitely not knocking it haha. 

But I do realize there may be some ramifications to accepting the self referential knowledge as truth, like perpetuating the illusion, an undesirable story or victim mindset and even overlooking the value in attaining personal wisdom, indeed necessary for taking on the pain of the world

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, DrewNows said:

@Martin123 Are you bringing the allegations up in relation to the value in understanding attachment styles or do they really concern you? 

The allegations are concerning for sure. It's in-tolerable to be quite honest, there should be no negotiation or patience around that, and it should be swiftly brought to an end by any just means.
But in terms of attachment, a person who is fully securely attached will have no chance of conducting any sexual harm as they will have full understanding of their own boundaries as well as respect for the boundaries of others.
 

 

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

But I do realize there may be some ramifications to accepting the self referential knowledge as truth, like perpetuating the illusion, an undesirable story or victim mindset and even overlooking the value in attaining personal wisdom, indeed necessary for taking on the pain of the world

Of course it is quite significant to realize the relationship you have with the knowledge of attachment, there are individuals whose ego-structures can use such findings into a perpetuation of victim hood. This has to be acknowledged and brought to the surface, and some letting go strategies can be introduced to such individuals, which typically the non-dual community seems to be pretty consistent with (letting go of thought, attachment etc.).
However the double-edged sword of this is using non-duality at the exclusion of everything else. That's what I am essentially speaking up against and won't budge an inch no matter the disagreement of others. It's okay I will not argue, but I won't budge. Exaggeration of letting go leads to forms of spiritual oppression and gas lighting. It's actually pretty serious. 

[Forestluv]

Along the theme of prior conditioning and thought stories. . . Last Saturday, I was with a psychologist friend - she wanted to show me her office. As we sat there, it didn't take long for her asking questions about my childhood. I felt some resistance since it seemed like she was creating some thought story of me. Some type of character or identity. . . Due to the conditioning I received from my parents, I now have "x, y and z" neuroses and physical problems. This just felt like some thought story she was creating. I just wanted to enter what is happening now in my mind and body. What am I feeling now, without any creation of thought stories or characters. . . Yet this didn't feel right either. It was like there was a dynamic of both. . . Yet every time she brought me back to my father's behavior and the consequences on me, it felt like story creation. I started getting really uncomfortable. She switched gears and asked me to describe what my body was feeling and what my body wanted to do. She asked me to push away with my arms "Is that what your body wants to do?". No. . . She kept asking "what does your body want to do?". I didn't know. . . Then I looked at the door and everything became clear. All of the energy in my body wanted to get up and leave. Yet importantly, not to leave her or what was happening Now. . . She told me to go ahead and walk out the door. I couldn't do it. I wasn't allowed to. . . She told me again to get up and walk out the door. . . I was paralyzed. . . And then my body got up and walked out the door. There was this huge relief and release. And a knowing that arose. It had nothing to do with my psychologist friend and wanting her to stop. . . There was absolute clarity. . . During my entire childhood, my father would get upset with me and put me on a couch and lecture me for hours about how I screwed up, how I'm harming the family, how I'm not good enough etc. I didn't want to push him away, I just wanted to be able to stand up and leave. Yet I wasn't allowed to and this feeling got repressed to the point I was no longer able to recognize it. We are talking hundreds of times and hours of this. After a while, I just started dissociating. That was my way of "leaving". . . When I stood up and walked out of her office, I wasn't leaving her. It was the energetic dynamic conditioned into me from my father and not being allowed to ever leave and repressed emotion. 

Some may say I'm just creating a new thought story. Perhaps I am. Yet there also seems to be some energetic dynamic happening now that was entangled with my father. There was not "past" and "present". Both were now. Perhaps similar to entanglement within quantuum mechanics. 

[Martin123]

@Serotoninluv I can feel the tangibility of the relief and healing that you've written about. That's wonderful! Thanks for sharing that, and I'm sorry for the authoritarian attitude of your dad, on behalf of all males who yet haven't found the safety to relate to females in an intimate way, apologies for the harm that was done. May you find the freedom in embracing your boundaries as a tangible blueprint of reminding you how safe you truly are. 

[PenguinPablo]

@Martin123 Magi is one of my favorite anime dude! And yes, even when watching the show even though Sinbad is such a rad dude you can tell he has attachment issues hahahaha

[Martin123]

@Serotoninluv I just remembered you're a guy I am sorry You just have very feminine and gentle nature, it confused me a little.

57 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Martin123 Magi is one of my favorite anime dude! And yes, even when watching the show even though Sinbad is such a rad dude you can tell he has attachment issues hahahaha

Sinbad is the best indeed, what I loved about him is his decisiveness, the divine masculine energy that I've been called to embody in the past 1-2 years.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Martin123

[Forestluv]

@Martin123 All good. I consider it a compliment. 

[DrewNows]

2 hours ago, Martin123 said:

The allegations are concerning for sure. It's in-tolerable to be quite honest, there should be no negotiation or patience around that, and it should be swiftly brought to an end by any just means.
But in terms of attachment, a person who is fully securely attached will have no chance of conducting any sexual harm as they will have full understanding of their own boundaries as well as respect for the boundaries of others.

If that is how you wish to see it. To me it’s the same ole patterns we work to transcend. There are no higher expectation than love. 
 

2 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Of course it is quite significant to realize the relationship you have with the knowledge of attachment, there are individuals whose ego-structures can use such findings into a perpetuation of victim hood. This has to be acknowledged and brought to the surface, and some letting go strategies can be introduced to such individuals, which typically the non-dual community seems to be pretty consistent with (letting go of thought, attachment etc.).
However the double-edged sword of this is using non-duality at the exclusion of everything else. That's what I am essentially speaking up against and won't budge an inch no matter the disagreement of others. It's okay I will not argue, but I won't budge. Exaggeration of letting go leads to forms of spiritual oppression and gas lighting. It's actually pretty serious

Yes we give power to the people not by holding them in contempt but by realizing our own true power, opening our arms and lending a hand. 

[Martin123]

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

If that is how you wish to see it. To me it’s the same ole patterns we work to transcend. There are no higher expectation than love. 

Abuse of power and sexual misconduct have nothing to do with love. Nor does the kissing of guru's feet. It's spiritual oppression, not too far from the abuse of religious hiearchy. Its borderline middle ages behaviour. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Yes we give power to the people not by holding them in contempt but by realizing our own true power, opening our arms and lending a hand. 

I really don't understand what you mean by that, would you mind elaborating please? 

[DrewNows]

@Martin123 I’m just spinning my wheels if anything man sorry about that. I just feel that the need to know is exactly what keeps people trapped in separation and unable to feel free. If there’s a greater force than understanding, it makes more sense to work directly with it, so what I meant is simply self love/ compassion

[Martin123]

@DrewNows No worries Drew it's all good. Love and compassion are always important to embrace, but it must be done in a safe environment that is free of abuse.

On a similar note...
I would like to confront @Nahm

As someone who is a survivor of childhood abuse, and while in recovery, the recognition of manipulative and abusive cycles has become just way too clear. As someone who has experienced self-realization, I can honestly clarify that it does not excuse the behaviour Nahm has been exhibiting. 

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

That’s just your idea of it, personified onto me, judgement. What I suggest, is precisely, and only, what I suggested. 

There’s no such “promise”. You’re projecting this onto what was said again. That’s your idea of this, not what I said.  That “devalues”, is your perspective. That I’m deceiving anyone, is your perspective too. 

That’s also coming from you but you’re not realizing it. I’ve neither mentioned nor encouraged anything like that at all. 

You don’t have to judge people like this. You yourself can transcend it, by inspecting it. 

That is the self. The distinction you’re making, are yours.

You truly don’t see your story at play here? Your story about me? 

You’re adding so much to what I said, and missing you’re doing what I explained right now. 

Here I was raising valid concerns against Nahm's advice and conduct, however everything I had said was turned against me and I was accused of projection, not seeing things clearly, and adding things onto what he was saying.

gaslight
/ˈɡaslʌɪt/

manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.

Such behaviour should not be tolerated, certainly not under the umbrella of spiritual development, especially from someone who is a Moderator, runs their own spiritual guidance business, and a great number of people likely look up to.

If Nahm is unable to change the quality of his conduct, I will ask him to stop interacting with me on the forum altogether (Would blocking him do the trick? I've never blocked anyone before). Frankly I would love for all the individuals on the forum that I care about to be safe from this as well, but that is not within my power.

 

[Martin123]

Hi @Amandine !

thanks so much for the input. I truly appreciate your concern for me, and take it as nothing else as being caring and concerned for me. I wish you don't take it personally that I don't take your advice to heart, also unfortunately because you accused me of having 'unconscious projections', you're blocked now.

 

edit: I apparently can't block people, or can't figure out how, so just politely asking you not to spend your time interacting with me, I don't wish to engage in that. If that is not an option for you, I might really delete this account or something. Although there's not really an option for that either, gosh setting boundaries on this forum is really not an option huh lol.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Martin123