Bobby's perspective vs actualized.org

[jimwell]

13 hours ago, jimwell said:

Is this the point where Jesus, Osho and Sadhguru are at now? Is there anybody alive aside from Sadhguru who is at this point? 

@Leo Gura How could you not answer such a very relevant question? Saying "I don't know" is ok. Being inauthentic is not.

[jimwell]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

Cart’s before the horse. ?

You’re believing your thoughts that there’s a Sadhguru, etc. If “Sadhguru” is a word you learned...what is that ? What is Sadhguru without your labels of Sadhguru, human, man, enlightened, guru, etc, etc...?  What is Jesus but a story within your story? What did he tell you but this exactly? How do you know he is not you, telling you?

It doesn't answer the question. The goal is to simplify things, not complicate.

[jimwell]

10 hours ago, Dino D said:

Osho and sadguru can never stand on the same page with Jesus...

The first two are obvius jerks, may they be enlightened... if the Jusus story and power is true, than he was so in tune that he could heal, walk on water and what not, those two are also buisiness man who love attention and they smart appearance... they are expensive, very expensive, jesus is free and so on...

Even if the Jesus story aint true, that false story can never be compered with the facts about osho and sadg. Thats not the same ,,level,, not even close...

I don't know whether you're a Christian. But I see you point. It's sensible.

[Nahm]

@jimwell lol!  I know, there’s the matter of realization (sorry)...but it couldn’t be simpler than realizing it’s your thought. 

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, jimwell said:

Is this the point where Jesus, Osho and Sadhguru are at now? Is there anybody alive aside from Sadhguru who is at this point? 

There are 1000s of awakened people all over the planet.

Most of them aren't celebrities so you won't hear about them.

Don't limit your worldview to what is popular on YouTube.

Some of the most awakened people are not in the public eye at all.

[MAYA EL]

This thread is like 50 Shades of Grey Guru Edition LOL. It's hilarious to see so many personal Concepts being thrown around like it's a game of frisbee golf while Leo is wearing his football gear stiff-arming everybody with his opinion when his opinion is no greater than the next. Or any more accurate for that matter.

I'm sure people will disagree with me when I say this but I do believe the original concept of non dualism was that you can't make a concept whatever concept you have is wrong because if you have a concept that automatically makes your opinion different than anybody else's opinion there for that would be two opinions and that would be dualism so non-dualism would be if no one had any opinion concept or idea of reality but the second you do (which we all do ) you're in duality and that was the original meaning behind non-duality

Secondly I'm not sure where you can see a manifestation or as I call them and Echo of the all creator in daily life that proves that the all Creator is this unlimited Fountain of consciousness. Firstly I still hold to the fact that you can talk around the idea of the all Creator but you can't actually directly talk about the all creator because it's too complex to put it simply but just to interject and throw a wrench in the concept bucket everybody seems to agree with the fact that the all Creator is consciousness however the echo I find in life is that the majority of life is unconscious and then and even closer example would be the human body see your conscious right now and aware and doing certain things but you can only consciously do maybe three things at the same time however unconsciously you're firing hundreds of thousands of muscle fibers pumping organs creating s*** digesting food in other words you're doing millions of times more things unconsciously than you are consciously and without that unconscious action you would die instantly

so your body would cease to be so wouldn't that mean that the all creator would be unconsciousness and not consciousness because Consciousness is only where something is to be observed and the all Creator is before physicality and before anyting but how can Consciousness be before anything when Consciousness only exists to be conscious of something therefore the all creators not Consciousness if anything you could label it unconsciousness I prefer the term no-thing but definitely not consciousness because that's just a human ego trip right now.

[Derek White]

@MAYA EL Consciousness and infinity are beyond thoughts and concepts man.

[MAYA EL]

1 hour ago, Derek White said:

@MAYA EL Consciousness and infinity are beyond thoughts and concepts man.

 That is just a concept you made up or heard and decided to agree with that is all because you cant know infinity because infinity is not observable or able to be experienced and consciousness is only found where things to be observed are therefore it is not beyond anything infact it is limited.  Don't just regurgitate Leo forum epistemology on me I've heard it many times now if you have any concepts that you developed on your own then I'm more then glad to hear them and test them.

[Leo Gura]

@MAYA EL You're getting close to getting kicked off this forum.

You're acting like a know-it-all when actually you're just being dense and spreading ignorance.

[Prabhaker]

19 hours ago, Dino D said:

Osho and sadguru can never stand on the same page with Jesus...

Jesus was on the same page. He cursed a fig tree which was not yielding any fruit. In the temple of Jerusalem Jesus took a whip and started beating the money changers. Jesus had only twelve fools around him.These twelve fools became twelve apostles.

[tsuki]

On 25.01.2020 at 10:58 AM, Leo Gura said:

I recognize that bhakti is one path out of many for some people. I recognize the relativity of all paths to awakening. The question is, do you?

You're right @Leo Gura, I didn't, it just occurred to me that it's relative.
I don't think that bickering about whose teaching is better is good though, so I don't support Bobby's conviction and never have.

On 25.01.2020 at 10:58 AM, Leo Gura said:

Personally it's a path I don't resonate with. Or, you could say I am doing bhakti yoga, but my deity is reality itself, not any one classic avatar. My devotion is to Truth and Consciousness in their pure, abstract, formless form.

I understand this because during one of my awakenings, I understood the nature of contemplation. Its results come about because it is a form of channeling that is answered because of devotion to Truth. I also understood viscerally that I am God, reality itself, and that I am ultimately praying to myself. Not my limited self, but the origin of my selfhood, the Source. My atheism was preventing me from seeing it previously so I had to let go of it.

I do think, however that it is possible for the Truth/God to influence the material world in other ways than simply by providing understanding in samadhi. Not in the sense that Truth literally materializes/imagines everything (which is true). I mean personally influence things. I believe that this is how paranormal occurrences/siddhis happen. My understanding of the Bible has led me to believe that Jesus Christ was the literal incarnation of Love, Man-God, Word made flesh, and that the miracles that he (supposedly) performed back this claim up.

I do have personal, psychological reasons for this search and I am mindful of them. I'd very much like to believe that the world is a friendly place and that there is somebody that will take care of me. I have abandonment issues and I may be trying to fix them with beliefs. I'm willing to go and explore Christianity though and I haven't been disappointed so far.

Ahh, this is so embarrassing to talk about my beliefs here.
More than dropping shit-jokes in a serious conversation. Sorry about that, Leo.

Edited January 26, 2020 by tsuki

[jimwell]

@Prabhaker  Jesus might really be on the same page as Osho and Sadhguru.

[Aaron p]

*rant incoming, related to video*

He said: "as Christian's we cannot connect to god without jesus. Before, I believed that I was God and that man is God and everyone can actualize God within themselves. This is what the scriptures warn against."

He also says "there is only one god and we are not him, we all hold god within us but that does not mean that we are God."

He is getting it backwards, he does not realise that he is an illusion and that the essence that is most truly "him" *is* the god inside him. It's not like he is a person with God inside him he is God with a person outside him hahaha. He does.not under this.

"We can find our way to the lord, only through Jesus." Absolutely correct. The thing that he is also misinterpreting here is..."Jesus" is anyone who is void of an ego! 

what *made* Jesus, Jesus?
The Bible says we are made of three parts, spirit, soul (mind) and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23).  The Bible also says that Jesus grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52) referring to his mind, revealing to us that he has a limited mind. And if Jesus existed in modern times you could easily replace each of his *physical* organs surgically, and even remove the muscles and bones in his arms and legs and he'd still be jesus. His mind and body where not essential for him to be Jesus. I'm sure he could lose a memory or a piece of skin here and there. Still Jesus. It's his spirit* that granted his divinity. The same spirit that lives in us! (Romans 8:11). And if we realise that our minds and body's are not us, we realise that we are our spirit. Which is the same as saying that we are God's spirit. 
Or you could say "But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit." (1 Corinthians 6:17).
Being *one* with something is the same as saying that you *are* that thing.

If you had a hypothetical table in front of you right now and I gave you three facts about what is on the table;
1: there is an orange on the table
2: there is a sphere on the table
3: there is only *one* thing on the table.

If your smart enough to realise it, you must conclude that the orange *is* the sphere. They are one. We are one with God. We are God.

I've spent too much time contemplating this to be unsure about it. Jesus is a picture of yourself. You must die and be brought back to life, born again.

Also we are no longer sinners according to the Bible. In the spirit we are holy and perfect and equal with jesus...because we are jesus. I have verses for these if anyone objects ✌️ it just depends if your looking at physical (false) truths or truths of the spirit realm. 

[Psychonaut]

I wonder what the practical use case here is?

Leo's posts seem pretty logical to me. They are just not useful for the people that don't see it that way. There is something in the way it is worded that just makes it not that useful. If it is not useful to the person reading it, it is a waste of time, as no one is being helped. The people that already know it or have experienced it will accept it, the rest not. But why even bother with the people that already know it? The ones that don't know it are the ones that need the help.

Everything is illusion, no model can explain it. Some are useful, some are truer than others. I am heavily biased towards usefulness. No one can embody the truth anyways. Maybe they can, just not in the human form. What they can embody is just shards of the truth and never the whole thing. 

We all are just trying to help each other. I just wish we would do that in the most productive way that helps the most amount of people. 

[Stakres]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

15 hours ago, Stakres said:

What is after you experience it? What comes after? How do you continue after that experience?

Awaken and find out.

Are you awake? If you are could you please share what comes after awakening?

[Leo Gura]

I am done replying to this thread.

I have spoken the truth. Now it's on you to do the work to get it.

Keep in mind that these are extremely advanced teachings. Treat them with the respect and nuance they deserve. It will take the average person 10 to 20 years of serious inner work to fully fathom what was said in this thread. Sloppiness, laziness, and self-bias just won't cut it here.

[whoareyou]

18 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

With mainstream spirituality becoming more
and more psychologically-based (thinking that everything comes from the “self”)
there is a lack of understanding of anything outer that may be having an impact on
you. The truth is that most spirituality is centered around the belief that experiences
are psychological because the person may not know any better (the teacher who
espouses this sort of understanding may not be at a point of recognizing this, or
wanting to), or more simply, because if you recognize that there are energies, spirits,
and a whole wide world of different experiences, outside of the self, out there, there
is no longer a sense of perceived safety.
(Slight soapbox, but I always find this reasoning interesting, that inherently
you are “safe” if you spiritual work is psychological. Anyone who has done real
shadow work or has worked with not-so-friendly aspects of themselves will know
that there are parts of ourselves that are dangerous, mean, violent, abrasive, or just
not-so-cuddly. In general, people do more damage to themselves than most spirits
ever will. But I digress).
There is a loss of discernment in most modern day spiritual teachings, and an
inability to recognize experiences as either outer or inner. This equals a lack of

safety in doing spiritual work, work that is just in the “mental” realms (is more self-
help oriented and psychologically based), or simply muddied, ineffective spiritual

work. This sort of discernment is sorely neglected and really needed for anyone who
is able to access anything remotely spiritual, which is what a wide variety of
sensitives are able to do. This lack of education on how to do basic discernment with
anything that is “outer” causes many people to act (or react) inappropriately to
spiritual stimuli. For example, you would want to react much differently to a kindly
spirit of a “former human” who was a grandmother in life who is just checking in on
you to see how you are doing and how you are enjoying the home she lived in for
thirty years... vs. a being of non-human origin that wishes to destroy any feelings of
joy you have within you. You would want to take different action for something that
is self-created, an aspect of your Self that wants some attention and healing, vs.
something that is distinctly not an aspect of you.

Mary Mueller Shutan - Shamanic Workbook Vol. 1

I agree - essentially the beliefs of "spirits" and other outer influences are a huge distraction to doing the inner work, which is why from my perspective that those things (like spirits) are an illusion, and a huge distraction created by the ego. The same thing can be said about the "god" that Christians believe in - something outside of them - a huge illusion and distraction to doing the real inner work.

What LEO talks about here is indeed the truth - and to add to that point, once you realize that you are GOD, being religious, or spiritual won't make any sense and will even seem silly.

[remember]

13 hours ago, MAYA EL said:

 That is just a concept you made up or heard and decided to agree with that is all because you cant know infinity because infinity is not observable or able to be experienced and consciousness is only found where things to be observed are therefore it is not beyond anything infact it is limited.  Don't just regurgitate Leo forum epistemology on me I've heard it many times now if you have any concepts that you developed on your own then I'm more then glad to hear them and test them.

do you realize that you yourself can’t separate the chicken from the egg anymore, and that’s why you have to realize that you are basically talking to yourself. there is no separation between you and the egg, the egg seems to be stuck there, neither chicken nor egg. itself stuck in itself.

[remember]

...and it’s colour is 

i wonder what colour getting stuck develops into. in the most cases probably blue and then after a while the inflexibility might turn red. however magical one god might be - that’s why christianity is also split into many christianity’s finding one true christianity  is like finding the special in the general the content in the concept and then people think they found the new in the old or vice versa. i‘m sure there are a lot of religions that could use some reformation. so maybe if the dice have fallen and the choice is made, the question is more how much of the religion is corrupted and how corrupted i am then by following it. by making a choice we get corrupted much faster in the most cases. i guess what ikon‘s can teach us foremostly is that it’s not the picture, if we get stuck on the picture we get stuck on the magical tool. the biggest lie and corruption of religions is that they use magic for power but deny magic exists. so the ultimate question is not if you understand what the elephant man stands for, it is if you understand the dance. the question is if bobby decives himself or if he decives others or if he does both or neither of it. 

it might be not paradigm lock but powergod lock, or it is not powergod lock but paradigm lock.

Edited January 27, 2020 by remember

[whoareyou]

10 hours ago, Keyhole said:

The thing is, there is spiritual wildlife out there and there are things that you can encounter while doing this work.  There are abilities, proclivities and sensitivities that many people uncover that have to be addressed, managed, developed, used before a person can maintain a non-dual state.

There seems to be a misunderstanding of how you go about finding and interacting with spirits and whatnot.  You do go inwards, and they reflect themselves outwards.  In order to experience them you need to have a change in your consciousness.

You can have the experience of being God, but bypassing all of the other things that happen within the spiritual realms is not avoiding distraction - it is laziness and/or fear, because people who think that all they have to do is awaken to non-duality, they can then feel they have more control over the process.

Well, it doesn't work that way.

What Leo talks about is a facet of Truth, but he has said that he doesn't understand or experience psychic/unusual phenomenon very often, does not understand it very well, and relies heavily on psychedelics to have these experiences.  My opinion is this - don't go looking for these things - that's the distraction, but if they come to you - then you might learn a thing or two about how little we know about the other "life forms" that are on different waves of consciousness.  On top of this, within these other waves - is where the energetic battle between good and evil takes place and it would behoove all of you not to dismiss it so lightly.

The devil rests within the energetic irony of a song like this being sung in a Gregorian chant.  Within your religions, your institutions - everything that you think is good and right and true.  Right sandwiched in between.
That energy is within the details of what separates the black and the white.  If you all don't know both of those energies, then something isn't right.  If you think there is only one player influencing you and your life, dig deeper.

Know thy enemy.

Except you don't "experience being god", it's not an experience, it's a realization. And you clearly have not realized it, so from your current level of consciousness, my position doesn't make sense to you.

There is no such thing as energetic battle that is taking place between "good" and "evil". In fact, there is no such thing as "evil" and "good", those are very relative terms which your EGO uses to divide things. 

A lot of work lies ahead of you - in order to get rid of your current illusions and to realize that you are god.