Spirituality for the chronically ill

[mindcentral]

What spiritual options do chronically ill people have (e.g. people with severe fibromyalgia)?

How much of a spiritual limitation is a chronic health condition with no chance of improvement and which is possibly even progressive in nature?
Kriya Yoga, for instance, is no option for me because I can't sit straight in a comfortable way for longer than five minutes. Long regular meditation sessions are much more difficult as well with a decrepit body and brings with it other obstacles (e.g. falling asleep during meditation because of low energy).

I've had a lot of intense and full-blown mystical experiences on psychedelics, but my decrepit body remains a limitation in this domain as well.

Are chronically ill people spiritually fucked unless they have inborn spiritual talent? I know Ramana Maharshi was decrepit and totally neglected his body, but obviously he is an aberrant case.

Note: not looking for health advice here. Just take it for granted that healing is not an option.

[The1One]

Get up and walk

This is all imagination and all limits are self-imposed

[mindcentral]

bump

[purerogue]

You do not need to be sitting to do most of practices, you can adjust them to your daily life, it will  be more difficult because of distractions, but there is no reason you can't do them, if anything I think that sitting practices make you to comfortable. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by purerogue

[WelcometoReality]

@mindcentral You might be limited in certain ways but so is everyone else, beliefs are in themselves limiting you from awakening.

So it's not the çhronical illness that is limiting (ofc it is in a physical sense). It is the belief that the chronical illness is limiting that is limiting (more limiting than the illness itself).

Edited January 24, 2020 by WelcometoReality

[Leo Gura]

You're thinking about this is backwards.

Your fibromyalgia is likely the result of you living your life in unspiritual ways.

The fibromyalgia isn't holding you back from spirituality, it is PUSHING you to wake up!

Your body is screaming at you: WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WE CAN'T KEEP LIVING LIKE THIS! CONNECT ME TO SOURCE!!!!

This is a much more robust issue than merely meditation. Your entire life needs to be spiritualized and infused with mindfulness and consciousness and love.

Quote

Just take it for granted that healing is not an option.

No, we will not take that for granted.

You don't take for granted that healing is an option. Healing happens on many levels: physical, mental, spiritual.

I recommend you find a local psychic healer / reiki healer who can help you work on your fibromyalgia and give you guidance.

Fibromyalgia especially is a spiritually-related illness. If you had a broken spine, that might be another matter.

[Gneh Onebar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You're thinking about this is backwards.

Your fibromyalgia is likely the result of you living your life in unspiritual ways.

The fibromyalgia isn't holding you back from spirituality, it is PUSHING you to wake up!

Your body is screaming at you: WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WE CAN'T KEEP LIVING LIKE THIS! CONNECT ME TO SOURCE!!!!

This is a much more robust issue than merely meditation. Your entire life needs to be spiritualized and infused with mindfulness and consciousness and love.

No, we will not take that for granted.

You don't take for granted that healing is an option. Healing happens on many levels: physical, mental, spiritual.

I recommend you find a local psychic healer / reiki healer who can help you work on your fibromyalgia and give you guidance.

Fibromyalgia especially is a spiritually-related illness. If you had a broken spine, that might be another matter.

In your perspective does this also counts for genetic muscle disorders like FSHD? I'm doing all my practices anyway, I'm just interested in how you think about this.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Gneh Onebar

[remember]

one of the options you could try to relief yourself from your suffering is relieving it by relieving most animals from suffering and trying veganism. and i mean take it on for both reasons! i know that some fibromyalgia is wrongly diagnosed serum negative rheumatoid arthritis. but whatever it is i would start with nutrition. go raw vegan for some weeks until you feel a betterment of your condition (can take from three weeks to three months) - then only after you can feel that your condition improved, slowly try single kinds of food like dairy products and register how and if your condition changes in the course of 24 hours. try processed foods like soy milk, meat, wheats, eggs, but not all together only one at a time, taking notes, at least at the beginning returning to your raw vegan afterwards. if there are stronger pains inbetween try to figure out how much that could be linked to foods. this is a longterm project for around four to six months until you have figured out what you can eat. if you can afford it do a panchakarma. before or after your little spring challenge - i don’t know a better way to get rid of toxins from the tissues.

i was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis because i didn’t let them send me away from the start, until they found inflammatory processes. then i found out to get symptom free through veganism even though everyone says it’s the fat i found out it’s the proteins, and the more people i talk to with diabetes and other autoimmune diseases the more i realize that almost all who live with their condition and don’t have to take medication anymore turned vegan. make this spiritual travel, you will leave much baggage behind. i‘m not sure how much fibromyalgia profits from veganism but i‘m almost sure it will. if not you will at least have spiritual insights. maybe you would even want to stay raw even though vegan would be sufficient.

one clue is never giving in to what doctors say and finding out the truth for yourself. if your body shows signs of deformation it is NOT FIBROMYALGIA but rheumatoid arthritis and you need completely different medication. also don’t assume that there is no healing method, that would mean giving in before you even really tried (although i took medication until there were significant signs of betterment - until you can walk without it sometimes pharmaceuticals are still needed) it’s worth trying even though it seems like a rehab - it is like one, you will feel cravings and have times were you make exceptions (but if you do also notice what happens). but for the possibility that you might even forget that you are ill - yes it’s totally worth it. it will change your life dramatically.

Edited January 24, 2020 by remember

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Gneh Onebar said:

In your perspective does this also counts for genetic muscle disorders like FSHD? I'm doing all my practices anyway, I'm just interested in how you think about this.

I have not researched that disorder.

In general I'm suspicious of "genetic" as a justification for anything. Sure, a few very serious things might be genetic, but for the most part you should assume you got good genetics and look for other problems -- ways your genetics are being improperly expressed or used. Many problems that people tell themselves are "genetic" really are not, and are changeable with research and effort. You won't know until you try.

[Heaven]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have not researched that disorder.

In general I'm suspicious of "genetic" as a justification for anything. Sure, a few very serious things might be genetic, but for the most part you should assume you got good genetics and look for other problems -- ways your genetics are being improperly expressed or used. Many problems that people tell themselves are "genetic" really are not, and are changeable with research and effort. You won't know until you try.

I’m suffering lately from tension headaches..do u think it’s also the case of my body cannot handle with my lifestyle?

[Leo Gura]

@Heaven I don't know. Sounds likely.

It's not normal to be having headaches. There must be a deeper issue you're not addressing. Headaches are not some genetic disorder.

[Ananta]

On 1/21/2020 at 1:06 PM, mindcentral said:

How much of a spiritual limitation is a chronic health condition with no chance of improvement and which is possibly even progressive in nature?

It's not a limitation. If you can't sit straight up, then lie down. I personally always got more out of Self inquiry, then meditation. Anyways, me and another moderator here have multiple sclerosis. Mine hasn't given me any problems in several years, but regardless it doesn't limit you spiritually. Not in my opinion. 

[Gneh Onebar]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have not researched that disorder.

In general I'm suspicious of "genetic" as a justification for anything. Sure, a few very serious things might be genetic, but for the most part you should assume you got good genetics and look for other problems -- ways your genetics are being improperly expressed or used. Many problems that people tell themselves are "genetic" really are not, and are changeable with research and effort. You won't know until you try.

In the materialist paradigm it certainely is: I got a scientific confirmation. However I spoke with a psychic and she has a completely different view on things: she says it is a manifestation of psychological issues/tensions in the body. So if I resolve them, the body will heal.  

[Leo Gura]

@Gneh Onebar Luckily the materialist paradigm is horseshit.

Still, of course, that doesn't mean anything goes. Some stuff you simply may not be able to heal under your limited human powers. But you'd also be amazed at how much stuff can be healed. So it's worth a try.

Even if you can't heal a thing, you might still be able to reduce the symptoms and suffering. You can find coping strategies too.

If you have a serious health disorder, doing lots of research and experimentation is crucial.

[Gneh Onebar]

5 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Anyways, me and another moderator here have multiple sclerosis. Mine hasn't given me any problems in several years, but regardless it doesn't limit you spiritually. Not in my opinion. 

I'm very sorry to hear that. Do you do any spiritual practices to strengthen your body? 

[Gneh Onebar]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Gneh Onebar Luckily the materialist paradigm is horseshit.

Still, of course, that doesn't mean anything goes. Some stuff you simply may not be able to heal under your limited human powers. But you'd also be surprised as how much stuff can be healed. So it's worth a try.

Even if you can't heal a thing, you might still be able to reduce the symptoms and suffering.

 

I'm seeing an other psychic next week to have a second view on the issue. I somewhere heard that Ramaji said, that this women is one of the most powerful healers on the planet today. Let's see where all this leads to. In the end permanent liberation is my goal anyway.  

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Gneh Onebar

[moon777light]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

You're thinking about this is backwards.

Your fibromyalgia is likely the result of you living your life in unspiritual ways.

The fibromyalgia isn't holding you back from spirituality, it is PUSHING you to wake up!

Your body is screaming at you: WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WE CAN'T KEEP LIVING LIKE THIS! CONNECT ME TO SOURCE!!!!

This is a much more robust issue than merely meditation. Your entire life needs to be spiritualized and infused with mindfulness and consciousness and love.

i agree with this SO MUCH. I was 6 months severly ill, barely had the enrgy to walk, extreme chronic fatigue, had trouble reading, you get the jist. Looking back i knew it was my body screaming for help, for me to take care of it, to start living properly. It wasnt until i started actually living and interacting with the world that i started to get back to my regular self. 

By the way, Ken Wilber, has a debilitating disease and meditates everyday intesnely. I think on one of his blog posts he writes about it. But yeah, hes a good example that you CAN DO IT! He continues to write books and have profound ideas ontop of being chronically ill, so i would look to him as an inspiration. Just dont label your self, because it tends to be a self-fufilling prophecy. It sounds corny and overused but give it a chance. Sending much love <3 

[mindcentral]

On 24-1-2020 at 9:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

Your body is screaming at you: WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WE CAN'T KEEP LIVING LIKE THIS! CONNECT ME TO SOURCE!!!!

This is a much more robust issue than merely meditation. Your entire life needs to be spiritualized and infused with mindfulness and consciousness and love.

 

That's what I've been doing  or trying to do for quite some time. I've been taking frequent, solo investigative trips since I was 22 (27 now) and have connected to 'source' as you call it on several occasions. Been contemplating and meditating steadily for about 2,5 years and am committed to being as authentic as possible.  Over time I've had some improvement (regaining the ability to sleep, mild reduction of symptoms) but currently nothing indicates it will heal. I'm keeping an open mind of course and do try not to turn this into a limiting belief. I added the 'take for granted' caveat because I wanted to know what the best practices are IF my body situation does not improve, but this is not a fixed belief.

Curious what your take on this is, @Leo Gura: My last LSD trip (about 300µg) I became intensely 'aware of awareness' and surrendered myself completely to awareness, dissolving in it. Subsequent to this my body began to behave entirely of its own accord, as if it was an entirely external thing  unfolding of itself (it was no longer 'me'). My body lay down on the floor, shaking its head and contorting its spine, stretching itself out out (especially around the cheeks and neck) in very intense ways.

During this experience, I got flashes of what I at that moment I interpreted as memories of a past life-- images of an underworld filled with prostitution and I 'sensed' even darker things such as murder. The idea arose that I was a portal of human misery, that it was my 'cosmic purpose' to bear the pain of other beings and that my existence had no other function beyond that. At some point 'I' returned and took back control over the body. My body made further attempts to contort and twist, which was frightening, but these attempts subsided as I blocked this process. I cried for hours after that but this wasn't experienced as a negative per se, felt cathartic. Do you think I should have let my body continue to do what it wanted to do? I stopped the process because it felt very dangerous but I also realize that letting it happen might been very cathartic.

I'm not sure how I relate to the idea of past lives. I try to be agnostic about everything but I don't know how to wield the past lives/reincarnation model to understand my predicament with, or if that would be a useful thing to do. (Also, my first sexual experiences were with prostitutes and I only after developed the ability to approach women and form something of a connection with them, so ambiguous feelings about that might have played into my above described LSD experience, but I don't know.)

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

 

 

[Gneh Onebar]

4 minutes ago, mindcentral said:

Curious what your take on this is, @Leo Gura: My last LSD trip (about 300µg) I became intensely 'aware of awareness' and surrendered myself completely to awareness, dissolving in it. Subsequent to this my body began to behave entirely of its own accord, as if it was an entirely external thing  unfolding of itself (it was no longer 'me'). My body lay down on the floor, shaking its head and contorting its spine, stretching itself out out (especially around the cheeks and neck) in very intense ways.

During this experience, I got flashes of what I at that moment I interpreted as memories of a past life-- images of an underworld filled with prostitution and I 'sensed' even darker things such as murder. The idea arose that I was a portal of human misery, that it was my 'cosmic purpose' to bear the pain of other beings and that my existence had no other function beyond that. At some point 'I' returned and took back control over the body. My body made further attempts to contort and twist, which was frightening, but these attempts subsided as I blocked this process. I cried for hours after that but this wasn't experienced as a negative per se, felt cathartic. Do you think I should have let my body continue to do what it wanted to do? I stopped the process because it felt very dangerous but I also realize that letting it happen might been very cathartic.

Maybe reading Christopher M. Bache's book "LSD and the mind of the universe" will help you with this. He there describes similar experiences and speaks about going through the ocean of suffering...

[Ananta]

7 hours ago, Gneh Onebar said:

I'm very sorry to hear that. Do you do any spiritual practices to strengthen your body? 

No worries, I do very well. I don't do anything specific now a days.