Psychedelics Paradox

[actualizing25]

Hi guys, so as you know psychedelics are a powerful tool when you are on the spiritual journey and pursue awakening. There is always a warning that you should only take them, when your mental health is ideal and when you are in the best condition possible physically and mentally, otherwise it can be dangerous and you could harm yourself. But on the other hand psychedelics are used to treat mentally unstable people, who are suffering depression, anxiety, OCD and so on and they are really successful in doing so. So obviously there is a paradox here and it confuses me. If you want to take psychedelics you should be in a perfect mental condition, but then on the other side they are used to treat mental disorders. How do you explain this?

Thank you guys:)

[purerogue]

My guess is probably dosage, people who get treated clearly do not take huge dosages. 

[VeganAwake]

I always just made sure I had a clear conscience before doing any tripping...

If I needed to do something important apologize to someone or take care of business and pay somebody back I would always do that first before having fun.

When you are free you are free you are free ❤

[Mattie]

When you take them with friends and they dont know how your mental state is or you dont know the agenda of your friends, then it can create bad trips.

People that take them to help them with anxiety or depression take psychedelics with a proffesional tripsitter that can guide you trough the trip

[Aaron p]

I wouldn't overthink it bro. Psycs amplify your current state of mind. I've noticed that Leo always put quotations around it when he says "bad trips". I know exactly what he's suggesting...he's suggesting that there's no such thing as a bad trip just an easy trip or a hard trip. But both are usually in the direction of healing and a hard trip usually heals you more. So really what people refer to as bad trips are the best trips

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Yeah, I know that this can be a little confusing when you're starting out. I think the best advice that you can give anyone is to really listen to your own intuition and to always start small; just carefully babystep your way towards higher doses and don't rush anything - and if your gut tells you that something is a bad idea, then DON'T DO IT. Most importantly: Never do anything in order to impress people (or yourself for that matter). Belonging to the "cool kids club" is definitely not worth a psychosis.

In short, always listen to your heart & keep your intentions pure and you should be fine.

[Javfly33]

Ive never agreed You shouldnt take them ir You are in a 'bad place' in your life but rather that If you are not willing to do serious work and you are willing to surrender to the experience / be humble. 

For example having depression can be a 'bad place' but there are people that might have depression but inside them there is something that has still  hopes / wants to change then I don't see a problem doing a psychedelic. 

On the other hand someone who might not been in such a 'dad place' in life but might be very stubborn,  reckless,  cocky or stubborn might not very reccomended to him to have a trip at that time in its life.  It might occur the psychedelic go too strong on him

[actualizing25]

@Javfly33 so you mean, you have to be very openminded?

[actualizing25]

@Bazooka Jesus how old were you when you had your first psychedelic experience?

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@actualizing25  Oh, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too old, lol! Let's just say I wish that I had discovered psychedelics at least ten years earlier; but I guess better late than never, heh. - I think it's true though that you are probably better equipped to deal with the mindfucks that psychedelics have in store for you when you're already somewhat grounded in life and have gone through & survived the mindfucks that regular adult life throws at you over the years; but like I said, you are ready whenever you personally feel ready. (It can be tricky though to distinguish the neurotic ramblings of your ego from the genuine intuition which is your inner voice of wisdom; really listen in on yourself and try to finetune your heart's radio dial in order to pick up a clear signal that can serve as your compass. The whole psychedelic journey is basically a process of finetuning; the more often you trip, the more you get in touch with your intuition, which in return leads to better and deeper trips.)

I also think that Javfly33 definitely has a point when he says that the credo "People with depression should never ever do psychedelics" is way too simplistic; personally, I have been depressed out of my fucking mind over the years, and I gotta say that mushrooms and LSD have been the greatest discovery for me ever since I learned to walk!

[The1One]

Mushrooms will change the world

Psychedelics = for those who are willing to confront 'themselves' harshly

[Forestluv]

@actualizing25 I haven’t seem anyone suggest a person needs to be in “perfect” mental health to take psychedelics. Average mental health is fine.

People that have had a history of mental health issues such as anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, PTSD and clinical depression should take extra caution. Especially those on medications like SSRIs. Yes, psychedelics can help alleviate these conditions yet there needs to be care and responsibility. Recent clinical studies have shown psychedelics to be highly effective. Yet this was done in combination with therapy and in a clinical setting with the guidance of health care providers. If someone is trying to do psychedelic therapy on their own, they need to do their research and be extra careful. . . Yet for average people without serious mental health issues, just a basic amount of research and caution is generally sufficient. 

In a sense, psychedelic therapy a form of exposure therapy. The person is exposed to their issue in a way they have never perceived it before. That can be extremely profound and powerful for some people. 

[pluto]

Take the mental health people out in nature for a week, remove all use of smart phones or technologies, give them only fresh clean food and water, spend every day in spiritual practice and meditation, yoga, dance, swimming, hiking, connecting with nature an the elements then after a few days to a week once everyone seems very grounded, dose them with psychedelics 9/10 times they will have a positive life changing experience.

I think its very important to allow the nervous system to naturally calm down before going on a healing journey and being out in nature in a comfortable environment with good vibing like-minded people makes a huge difference.

Namaste

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics are a catalyst for facing one's shadow and transcending one's ego. The more dysfunctional one's ego is, the more shadow one has, the less stable one's mind is, the more things can go wrong during a trip.

People with mental illness or disorders need psychedelics more than anyone, but they are also less likely to handle facing their shadow.

It's like a high stakes bet for such people. If you win, you win big. If you lose, it will be hell.

Proper and very gradual dosing is crucial in such cases. You don't want to bite off more than you can chew. The less mentally stable and whole that you are, the less you can chew, the less you should bite.

Of course if you are mentally unstable the less likely you are to follow my advice, the more sloppy your approach will be, the more likely you are to overdose and freak out. Ignorance cannot help being ignorant.

[liquid]

It would be cool if there was like a 7H guided LSD/schroom video on YouTube regarding different topics such as treating anxiety etc 

[Dylan Page]

@Leo Gura how do I determine my own ego’s  level of maturity?

 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

It’s mainly triggering schizophrenia that you need to worry about.  If your family has a history of schizophrenics, you could be susceptible to contracting it yourself through a mind altering substance, even if it’s just cannabis.  When it comes to things like anxiety or depression, they can help alleviate those things, especially if you go in with the intention of dealing with those issues.  It can happen by accident too, but if you do struggle with those things, you’d best be mindful of the risks going in and go in with the intention to heal.  They do have the capability to make it worse, but only if you let yourself succumb to negative energy and let your thought be taken over by your neurosis.  

[Sempiternity]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are a catalyst for facing one's shadow and transcending one's ego. The more dysfunctional one's ego is, the more shadow one has, the less stable one's mind is, the more things can go wrong during a trip.

People with mental illness or disorders need psychedelics more than anyone, but they are also less likely to handle facing their shadow.

It's like a high stakes bet for such people. If you win, you win big. If you lose, it will be hell.

Proper and very gradual dosing is crucial in such cases. You don't want to bite off more than you can chew. The less mentally stable and whole that you are, the less you can chew, the less you should bite.

Of course if you are mentally unstable the less likely you are to follow my advice, the more sloppy your approach will be, the more likely you are to overdose and freak out. Ignorance cannot help being ignorant.

Lol, I can speak from personal experience that every aspect said here is quite true. 

[actualizing25]

@Leo Gura So, you are saying that it is possible for mentally ill people to heal themselves using psychedelics? I think it would be a better way than taking medications.

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@Leo Gura So, you are saying that it is possible for mentally ill people to heal themselves using psychedelics? I think it would be a better way than taking medications.

Maybe. Depends a lot on what the condition is and how the psychedelics are used.