Free will rant

[Chumbimba]

I just finished the Aaron Hernandez documentary. If you do not know, Aaron Hernandez is a former football player for the New England patriots who was convicted for two murders of three people. During the documentary I radically turned inward and it made me realize that I am and all human beings are capable of murdering another person if their survival was on the line. 

Football players can suffer trauma to the head and develop a disease called CTE. at the end of documentary they showed a picture of his brain scan after he killed himself

 

He literally has a hole in the frontal cortex of his brain. So I can understand to a certain degree why those murders were committed. He had no control whatsoever. The most important parts for rational decision making and judgement were severely damaged. But the legal system won’t consider “oh he didn’t have free will of his actions” because the entire system is based on the premise of people having control and shall be punished for the actions that people commit. The whole legal system would have to thrown out and reconstructed if they realized free will didn’t exist. 

Anyway I am acting self-righteous and all knowing and trying to sound smart and impressive but I just wanted to show my little finding that I became conscious of 

 

[purerogue]

System is in place to put dangerous people in jail, does not really matter if they have free will or no, what is important is to keep such people away so they do not harm others. What could be questioned though is to put him in jail,or mental health institute. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by purerogue

[Consilience]

A question for you in response to your rant - what is Free Will? 

[Chumbimba]

@purerogue Definitely put him in jail if he committed crimes. I’m just trying to convey my level of understanding on why the criminal possibly committed the murders 

[purerogue]

9 minutes ago, Chumbimba said:

@purerogue Definitely put him in jail if he committed crimes. I’m just trying to convey my level of understanding on why the criminal possibly committed the murders 

I understand, but there are people who commit crime by their choice and I am not to blame anyone, it is very complicated matter and most people put in certain situations, growing up in certain environment are capable of committing them, what is even more funny is that lot of people are committing crime and are just to blind to see that because their approach does not fall in standard definition of crime , so they take it as normal survival. 

[RevoCulture]

7 minutes ago, purerogue said:

I understand, but there are people who commit crime by their choice and I am not to blame anyone, it is very complicated matter and most people put in certain situations, growing up in certain environment are capable of committing them, what is even more funny is that lot of people are committing crime and are just to blind to see that because their approach does not fall in standard definition of crime , so they take it as normal survival. 

loved that... funny to reflect on the state of the environment, communities of animals & humans & plants that are affected in detrimental ways in order to maintain the status quo... but.. as you say... "their approach does not fall in standard definition of crime"..   looks like i made the cut, i'm in the group..   purerogue you truth speaker you..

@Chumbimba   feel ya on this too... wild how we can think we are in control.. 

[Chumbimba]

Im just looking at the CTE scan and Im surprised that people don’t have sympathy or understanding for a person with that large of a whole in his brain 

[purerogue]

6 minutes ago, Chumbimba said:

Im just looking at the CTE scan and Im surprised that people don’t have sympathy or understanding for a person with that large of a whole in his brain 

Everyone deserves compassion my friend. 

[RevoCulture]

@Chumbimba If it is any consolation... change happens over time and incorporating knowledge of any age happens slower than we would like.  If you look to history, it is inundated with examples of people being treated poorly while reputable information is being collected.   And you are right in that he should be treated in accordance with his condition..   And if you look at @purerogue insight that upon inspection our own lives contain these same injustices... we are living in ways that cause great harm while being armed with knowledge of that fact..

Don't go hard on yourself.. This truth is one that many of us are wrestling with and trying to figure out what to do.. I does humble us though, when we are faced with stories of others that we may be quick to judge and say "I would never do that"... well... actually... 

A person's whose life is being taken, the end result is they no longer exist, do they care if it is because of a gun shot or that their water supply is contaminated because people demand jet fuel for spring break vacations or plastic to make their everyday life possible.   The person having their life taken only focuses on the fact that their life is being taken... We all have blood on our hands... we didn't ask for it.. but we are responsible for figuring out what to do.. it all start by turning the pointed finger back to ourself.. 

[Chumbimba]

*hole 

[Chumbimba]

Yes it’s self-deception at its finest and selfishness. But I’m the most selfish of them all 

[RevoCulture]

@Chumbimba I'm  right there with ya... i'm sure we make good company though... 

[Chumbimba]

I use television an other people to point out self deceptions in others and myself. I also have a soft spot for criminals because I can deeply understand how traumatic experiences of abuse can be so I’m definitely biased when it comes to the psychology of criminals which is deceptive af

[RevoCulture]

@Chumbimba Good on you... I like to say I am all expressions, there is no one or no-thing that isn't inside of me.  I am capable of all things, I am no better or worse than anyone else... With that said i will live a biased life, full of ego judgment that seeks out the practice of unity and the awakening of consciousness... but I don't think that is better than anything else.. it is just what I am desiring...   I applaud your interests and the warmth you are able to project upon people who deserve and need to be loved, forgiven, understood... We are all living out the great dance, the spiral of evolution is underway, we are all tasked to carry every experience... and it isn't until we have been something that we know it, we get it, we forgive, we love, we accept....   sounds like you are on your way... you will be questioned often, misunderstood often, condemned... but that is the burden you are meant to carry.. every now and then you will come across those who get you.. who see you... drink it in.. fill your cup.. know that you are known.. you are appreciated and keep on going.. 

Look up Viktor Frankel if you feel up to it.. The Unheard Cry For Meaning if you have a chance... there are sections where he is speaking truth of meaning to men serving sentences.  it is powerful how freedom isn't always determined by the body but can often come from perception and understanding... 

Edited January 18, 2020 by RevoCulture

[purerogue]

5 minutes ago, RevoCulture said:

@Chumbimba Good on you... I like to say I am all expressions, there is no one or no-thing that isn't inside of me.  I am capable of all things, I am no better or worse than anyone else... With that said i will live a biased life, full of ego judgment that seeks out the practice of unity and the awakening of consciousness... but I don't think that is better than anything else.. it is just what I am desiring...   I applaud your interests and the warmth you are able to project upon people who deserve and need to be loved, forgiven, understood... We are all living out the great dance, the spiral of evolution is underway, we are all tasked to carry every experience... and it isn't until we have been something that we know it, we get it, we forgive, we love, we accept....   sound like you are on your way... you will questioned often, misunderstood often, condemned... but that is the burden you are meant to carry.. every know and then you will come across those who get you.. who see you... drink it in.. fill your cup.. know that you are known.. you are appreciated and keep on going.. 

Mind has its own qualities, it is just different way to experience, is it worse, or better is up to mind to decide. 

[RevoCulture]

@purerogue  Can you expand on that thought process.. I feel like I see it being said but not with much meat on the bones.... 

Also would you say that how you are treated by others has no real good or bad for your person?  As in we collectively as a society shouldn't really focus on what people are doing we should only focus on how we interpret what they are doing because there really isn't good or bad, its just a mind thing.. 

I'm totally open to the idea, i just need to be walked through it. 

[purerogue]

3 minutes ago, RevoCulture said:

@purerogue  Can you expand on that thought process.. I feel like I see it being said but not with much meat on the bones.... 

Also would you say that how you are treated by others has no real good or bad for your person?  As in we collectively as a society shouldn't really focus on what people are doing we should only focus on how we interpret what they are doing because there really isn't good or bad, its just a mind thing.. 

I'm totally open to the idea, i just need to be walked through it. 

I mean that mind is just one of many forms of experiences, it has its own qualities of how you can experience life.

Your question is exactly one of many ways how mind experiences and it is up to mind to decide on how it will experience. 

[RevoCulture]

@purerogue One of many forms, what are the others? what are the qualities you speak of?

And if you could attempt to answer the question proposed, from what you have stated it seems like what people do is a matter of our minds interpretation and not based on what they are doing and I would like to know how that plays out in society and why don't collectively follow what you are prescribing?  

I have my mind, but I am curious about yours saying actions are only interpretations based on mind and free of the action itself, no real good or bad outside of the mind...  How does that play out in your life and how do we embrace that philosophy in daily life and change from saying actions have consequences to actions are only defined by the quality of our mind?

Thanks.. Interesting ideas.. 

[purerogue]

Just now, RevoCulture said:

@purerogue One of many forms, what are the others? what are the qualities you speak of?

And if you could attempt to answer the question proposed, from what you have stated it seems like what people do is a matter of our minds interpretation and not based on what they are doing and I would like to know how that plays out in society and why don't collectively follow what you are prescribing?  

I have my mind, but I am curious about yours saying actions are only interpretations based on mind and free of the action itself, no real good or bad outside of the mind...  How does that play out in your life and how do we embrace that philosophy in daily life and change from saying actions have consequences to actions are only defined by the quality of our mind?

Thanks.. Interesting ideas.. 

Other forms are your senses and countless more that are not in human reach.

Qualities like learn, understand,interpret based on everything that mind can perceive, like human senses and  which then leads to forming way of understanding and interpreting it in its own way.

Actions are based on everything and it works in layers, unfortunately it will be very difficult to see mechanics behind it, it will take very strong awareness and selflessness, it is not like mind does not play any role, or other senses do not play any role, they all do, but on surface you only see outer minds interpretation of situation, which leads to confusion of why I do this , do that. 

[Stakres]

@Chumbimba Great findings!

Check out this video by a top Stanford neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky on Free will. He is one of the leading researchers in neuroscience.

He says that there is no free will and that society has to be restructured to account for the fact that killing just happens and people don't have control. He doesn't know how to solve that issue. In our current society it's unimaginable.

 

Another paraphrased quote I like: There is no free will, but it doesn't mean that you can go out there and do anything you want.