Zen Like Quips.. Respect or Passive Aggressive?

[RevoCulture]

Situation:  Someone is pouring out their heart in an attempt to navigate their journey, seeking meaning in the madness.  The vulnerability it takes for a humble and sincere sharing is noteworthy and appreciated by someone like myself and I imagine many others.  

After the sharing the comments come.  

I am torn about these short Zen like quips that people throw out there.  Obviously it is what it is but.. Is there reason to consider their value in how they are offered?

When someone is expressing an issue, they are expressing an issue; as in it is an issue.  It is an issue, a problem, something that isn't perfect in their life, something that causes suffering and pain.  They are expressing something they wish to explore...  

IMO anybody can throw out some Zen like quip that applies to most situations.  Every time I see a person pouring their heart out, looking for dialogue and what they get in return is a Zen quip... I have to question the person offering it... Who treats another this way.. 

It doesn't take much to throw out these universal quips that apply to almost anything... What isn't easy is to develop dialogue that addresses and explores what a person is expressing.  Doing so in a way that acknowledges and contributes without condemning or belittling.  

These quips can often be more passive aggressive ego inflated statements than anything else.  Why?  You think the person posting hasn't seen these quips before?  You think they haven't been exposed to these expansive ideas crammed into a few words?   Most likely they have, you aren't offering much anything the majority of the time.  More likely you are displaying your own ignorance, IMO.  Demonstrating your own self proclaimed intelligence.  

I think these people would probably enjoy or prefer a "I feel ya or I can relate"  or "I wonder the same".  "I feel that like this"...  to the Zen quip that every says duhhhh, thanks..    

 or maybe people should keep posting stuff like

"It is what it is"...  "It is only in the mind"   "Transcend your ego"..

Whoa.... so helpful... seen it thousands of times... do you have any dialogue to crack into the concepts or are you just regurgitating what some other insensitive ego inflated seeker wrote to you.. you know, to that question that was burning inside your soul.. you know that Zen quip that made you feel small, like you were stupid, like nobody was listening, how mean it seemed to receive such trite responses that take seconds when you spent time giving yourself...  how you were seeking discussion in hopes of finding light.. and instead you got a riddle... 

so... you learned to do the same... treat people with the same trite ego inflated Zen quip throwing approach...

Then again... what is wrong with getting a Zen quip.. whether the person knows what it means or not... if it applies, it applies..

My bad... Guess I just needed to express myself.. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by RevoCulture
spelling..

[Leo Gura]

Generally they aren't helpful and can lead to further confusion.

[Amandine]

I feel ya

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Amandine

[RevoCulture]

1 hour ago, Amandine said:

I feel ya

Thanks.. Some non Zen Zen word play for your participation.. hehe ha ha la la. 

 

Blessings bountiful, blossoming behind

Broken bridges & burnt buildings

Buried in bellies, black bearded birds

Blind & bereft, booming belief

Blessings bountiful, breathe

 

 

 

 

[Amandine]

On 18/01/2020 at 0:57 PM, RevoCulture said:

Blessings bountiful, blossoming behind

Broken bridges & burnt buildings

Buried in bellies, black bearded birds

Blind & bereft, booming belief

Blessings bountiful, breathe

Bloody beautiful, bless ya boyo 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Amandine

[lmfao]

@RevoCulture You're pretty much right. There's a universal pattern in how thoughts block one from introspection, blocks one from seeing hazy unconsciousness with a clearer microscope with higher resolution. It doesn't matter if you change the precise content of the thought by using zen or yoga terms. When provided or contemplating a question one might just give an immediate conditioned answer from the memory structures of the ego, and if one gives an answer like "well such and such a problem is inevitable" then that sort of answer tends to block one from introspecting the precise nature of this thing that is regarded as inevitable. I find this point very well articulated by Jiddu Krishnamurti and Peter Ralston. As Peter Ralston would put it, by filling in space with your "knowing" you prevent exploration of that space. 

I remember hearing something from Sadhguru that clicked with me about how western and eastern approaches differ. He said that in yoga one is, in some sense, "disregarding" their psychological structure. And there is extremely good reason to, its the basis for many meditative practices and getting enlightened and etc. So all these zen quips you hear will be in line with this general theme.
But then there's also the fact that this approach isn't the only tool one has to use. It would be perhaps be unwise to not partake in activities/practices like therapy which relate to western exploration of the psychological structure. I'm thinking of guys like Carl Jung, who push their understanding into mystical and abstract domains , alongside simple down to earth practices as a part of shadow work. The west has yielded spiral dynamics. 

Sometimes I might be purely trying to meditate, trying to stay away from getting "caught" in the content of thought as much as possible. But other times, I will do a fusion of thinking and introspecting. Asking myself why I believe such and such a thing, and then observing it as closely as I can. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by lmfao

[RevoCulture]

@lmfao Yummy.. That was tasty.. Thanks so much for that... 

They do block don't they.  Instead of attempting to creatively craft sentiments and explore, a person can just throw on the ole paradoxical quip and be done with it.  Slap on quip, there we go another thread shut down, another person denied, score one for my super intelligence that has no real idea what the quip means in the depth of its origin.  

I perceive the Zen quip thing as a stage too, I went through it.  This place where the paradoxes are starting to bewilder the mind and then the ability to demonstrate spiritual intelligence to others by wrapping up, putting to bed, owning a conversation by  throwing on a nice think layer of paradoxical sealant.  I do chuckle when I see it, awe.. isn't that cute... 

Seems like some people get stuck in this stage and others continue to grow and find ways to expand conversation with new knowledge, new potential and they aren't as interested in sealing it up as they are in exploring and expanding...  

Can you feel the intent behind them sometimes?   Sometimes a quip coming from a place of compassionate love sits very nicely, maybe garnished with just enough additional insight to direct, satiate satisfactorily.  Then there seems to be the ego inflated harsh mockery quips, ones that jab you in the heart and steal the beauty that was being nurtured.

I was watching a Krishnamurti video clip yesterday... Back around 1910 and the line that grabbed me... People are seeking comfort, not understanding.  

Isn't that precisely dealing what we are dealing with here.  People who want the comfort of "I know, I see, I have the answer, I feel smart, I feel dominate, I feel in control"    They aren't exploring the topic, they are showing humility, they are not seeking understanding...

Again, stages...   The deeper truth that all is within all leads back to the place that even through the lack of effort made to connect and understand through dialogue by using these Zen like quips... it is still seeking understanding... education through periods of gross ignorance and selfish pride & arrogance.  It is all part of the game.. It is all learning..     So tricky to be consciously compassionately critical of the framework through which we educate and congregate with the intention of driving the collective further...

Thanks for sharing... Posts like yours have a feeling to me...  I am on a cliff looking down over a vast and deep body of water... the water is welcoming me through the words, vision, meaning, & comfort of your expression.. Your expression is the water.. I dive headfirst and become embraced by the waters, welcomed as friend.. I swim through the verbiage, I drink, and I feel part of something I know as myself...  Blessings.. 

 

[Consept]

Yeah I agree, these responses are pretty much useless and just serve to elevate the poster to some sort of enlightened guru status and if you don't get it you're just not there yet poor soul. 

They have no real value for the poster. Even if the zen quipper is enlightened he's not speaking to people on their level which makes it pointless 

[lmfao]

On 19/01/2020 at 10:15 PM, RevoCulture said:

 

Seems like some people get stuck in this stage and others continue to grow and find ways to expand conversation with new knowledge, new potential and they aren't as interested in sealing it up as they are in exploring and expanding...  

It's the classic case of casting pearls before swine. If the person themselves is not introspective, no amount of knowledge or data will make up for it. I've talked to many people into meditation in real life, and it's little more than some fad they don't contemplate. Kind of makes me sad how lonely the path is. 
 

On 19/01/2020 at 10:15 PM, RevoCulture said:

Thanks for sharing... Posts like yours have a feeling to me...  I am on a cliff looking down over a vast and deep body of water... the water is welcoming me through the words, vision, meaning, & comfort of your expression.. Your expression is the water.. I dive headfirst and become embraced by the waters, welcomed as friend.. I swim through the verbiage, I drink, and I feel part of something I know as myself...  Blessings.. 

According Carl Jung, water is the commonest symbol of the unconscious. I'm not what that means, or why that symbol, but the idea is out there. I'm clueless on the idea that there are universal symbols for things across all cultures (so the symbols would therefore be inherited in some form), in the same way the collective unconscious is collection of patterns of survival that is inherited and not due to personal acquisition from your own life experiences. 

Hopeful I don't poison your descriptions or contemplations of things with extra knowledge/theories like these which are of no inherent use. 

[tsuki]

On 19.01.2020 at 11:15 PM, RevoCulture said:

They do block don't they.  Instead of attempting to creatively craft sentiments and explore, a person can just throw on the ole paradoxical quip and be done with it.  Slap on quip, there we go another thread shut down, another person denied, score one for my super intelligence that has no real idea what the quip means in the depth of its origin.  

I was so guilty of this...

I used to share these paradoxical quips (and still sometimes do) when I'm in a certain mental space of inner disconnection. I do that when I'm high on structural understanding, but very low on empathy. They are not deliberate attempts to "own the discussion", they point directly to the core of the problem with the intent to illuminate it. The problem with this "solution" is that it's irrelevant. It's like giving a person a ladder that has only the first and the last step and none in between. We're relative creatures, we don't work this way. It's all contextual and we first and foremost want to be felt, not understood.

So, here's a quip for this discussion:
Meet the relative as the relative.

Boom, thread closed. (Just kidding).

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

Meet the relative as the relative.

In the middle of the riddle one feels little.