Leo does not understand simulation theory

[Mafortu]

In Leo's video [Why Reality CANNOT Be A Simulation - A Clear Answer], he argues that reality cannot be a simulation and that anyone who entertains on such ideas are deluding themselves & not understand non-duality. He goes on further down-playing several well-known academics for subscribing to such "silly" ideas.  

First of all, no one is arguing that reality itself is a simulation, rather, our experience of reality existing inside a simulation is very well inside the grounds of possibility. For Leo to argue against this would be a contradiction on his views on infinity, you see, if reality is infinite in its possibilities, we then cannot throw away the possibility of beings/entities having a conscious experience inside a supercomputer. 

In other words, we are not saying reality = simulation, rather, simulations are just one of the infinite pieces of reality, and we might as well be living inside one without knowing it.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

If we were in a simulation, our simulation would be just as real as the reality in which we are being simulated. So the chain would go on with infinite simulations. But reality itself no matter what level of the simulation would be pure consciousness. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Mafortu said:

and we might as well be living inside one without knowing it

No, you can become conscious that you are not inside a simulation.

Your reasoning is assuming dualities which you could transcend and be free off.

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

If we were in a simulation, our simulation would be just as real as the reality in which we are being simulated. So the chain would go on with infinite simulations. But reality itself no matter what level of the simulation would be pure consciousness. 

Boom. Cant get much more concise than this ??

[Mafortu]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, you can become conscious that you are not inside a simulation.

Your reasoning is assuming dualities which you could transcend and be free off.

@Leo Gura Yes you can become conscious of it, but it doesn't change the fact that we may live inside a simulation inside infinity. I just dont see why you made an hour and a half video mocking this notion and calling it a lowly materialistic paradigm. 

One can believe in both non-duality and simulation theory simultaneously. Arguing against this would be like saying you cant believe in both non-duality and astronomy. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Mafortu
more words

[Derek White]

2 hours ago, Mafortu said:

First of all, no one is arguing that reality itself is a simulation, rather, our experience of reality existing inside a simulation is very well inside the grounds of possibility. For Leo to argue against this would be a contradiction on his views on infinity,

I don't think he contradicts the possibility of your experience being generated by a simulation. He was trying to point you to 'being' or 'direct experience'. Direct experience or reality is different from experience created by a VR headset. Reality is reality even if it's a simulation; it's groundless.

[Mafortu]

@Derek White

2 minutes ago, Derek White said:

I don't think he contradicts the possibility of your experience being generated by a simulation. He was trying to point you to 'being' or 'direct experience'. Direct experience or reality is different from experience created by a VR headset. Reality is reality even if it's a simulation; it's groundless.

Oh I agree, its good that he wants to push matrix fans further down the rabbit hole, further than they thought they knew, its just that the video did come off a little bit patronizing  which is uncharacteristic of him.  Simulation theory is a wonderful subject and is not in fight with non-duality.

[RevoCulture]

I am tossing this out there from a speculative position, purely for fun without any real weight behind it... exploring..

There is a new book out called The Case Against Reality, in this book he proposes that humans are programmed or designed to not experience reality as it is but are geared to recognize "fitness rewards".   That what we see are more like icons on a desktop, icons attached the "real" essence of what is being represented through the symbol.  

Again I am not trying to lobby for anything, I just like the thought exercise.  

Could humans program a virtual reality with an AI that experience the virtual world in a way that seemed like reality?  Is it possible that another entity of vast knowledge could create a VR that is what we are?  Would that reality be nested inside of the actual reality, yes.  Because it is nested within truth does that guarantee its ability to connect with that truth?  Would it depend on its state and stage of evolution?  Regardless of position everything is built on the fabric of truth, the unified field so can it be VR or just a level layered in ignorance?   Then if we start factoring this upcoming spacetime, space, time are emergent properties and not fundamental; everything has been and will always be... Is there any level or distinction even present... IDK I'm just a fleshy sack with an imagination.. 

I appreciate people kicking it around.. fun to see... 

Again I am not trying to lobby for anything, I just like the thought exercise.  I don't fall anywhere specific on the issue.. 

 

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Mafortu said:

@Leo Gura Yes you can become conscious of it, but it doesn't change the fact that we may live inside a simulation inside infinity. I just dont see why you made an hour and a half video mocking this notion and calling it a lowly materialistic paradigm. 

One can believe in both non-duality and simulation theory simultaneously. Arguing against this would be like saying you cant believe in both non-duality and astronomy. 

What your calling a “simulation” is made of the same metaphysical substance as the hypothetical “reality” creating this proposed simulation. This is what simulation theorists can’t see and fundamentally the false axiom simulation theory rests on. As such, you can become conscious of the fact that there is no such metaphysical duality as “simulation” and “reality.” It’s all one. If you want to know what reality is, you have to go deeper and see past this mind constructed duality. From a very authentic perspective, this duality isn’t even a possibility - alas, this is what you need to become conscious of. 

[purerogue]

Form mind nothing can be for certain, you can accept something as truth, but in absolute sense saying that you know for a fact is just ignorance. 

You never can, you never will, what you can do is go out of mind, where such questions do not matter. 

[Mafortu]

5 minutes ago, Consilience said:

What your calling a “simulation” is made of the same metaphysical substance as the hypothetical “reality” creating this proposed simulation. This is what simulation theorists can’t see and fundamentally the false axiom simulation theory rests on. As such, you can become conscious of the fact that there is no such metaphysical duality as “simulation” and “reality.” It’s all one. If you want to know what reality is, you have to go deeper and see past this mind constructed duality. From a very authentic perspective, this duality isn’t even a possibility - alas, this is what you need to become conscious of. 

 

I agree with you, my point still stands. I believe in non-duality, and I also believe there's a chance we live inside a computer.

[Eph75]

@Consilience

 @Consilience great explanation.

@Mafortu The answer can thus be yes, your illusion/reality can be a simulation from a duality stace. But something is running that simulation. And that simulation can be running in 1000 other instances of a simulations but at at some point the simulations end, and there is something greater, the one, oneness. From a non-duality stance it doesn't matter how the illusion/reality you are operating in is projected, it is still a projection, and if there is only the one, which there is with oneness, all those simulations are inside it/are a part of it, thus, the higher you, the one with that oneness, can never be within a simulation. That would if so meam that such a simulation has no origin and is not running on anything, and if so, can it be a simulation - no.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Eph75

[purerogue]

6 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@Consilience

 @Consilience great explanation.

@Mafortu The answer can thus be yes, your illusion/reality can be a simulation from a duality stace. But something is running that simulation. And that simulation can be running in 1000 other instances of a simulations but at at some point the simulations end, and there is something greater, the one, oneness. From a non-duality stance it doesn't matter how the illusion/reality you are operating in is projected, it is still a projection, and if there is only the one, which there is with oneness, all those simulations are inside it/are a part of it, thus, the higher you, the one with that oneness, can never be within a simulation. That would if so meam that such a simulation has no origin and is not running on anything, and if so, can it be a simulation - no.

But you can be made to believe anything, so you assuming Oneness, or anything else is you just believing something to be a fact and so on forever and ever. 

[Consilience]

28 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

 

I agree with you, my point still stands. I believe in non-duality, and I also believe there's a chance we live inside a computer.

OK. As long as you see how your point is existentially false, have fun with the mental masturbation. 

[Consilience]

@Eph75 Thank you 

[RevoCulture]

1 minute ago, Consilience said:

OK. As long as you see how your point is existentially false, have fun with the mental masturbation. 

Is what you saying also mental masturbation, existentially false under the same pretense?

[Eph75]

@purerogue Yes, of course. Nonduality is a concept in itself, a construction of the human mind. Someone has to transcend the human mind and break the limitations of what we are limited to as humans in order to really know, and that's not within the freedom of the human form. Even with the greatest insights, awakenings, enlightenment or via psychedelics it can not be ruled out that nonduality could be a concept that exists for the sole reason to keep us preoccupied with this nonsense, yet anouther layer of disillusion, a greater trick and anyone claiming otherwise might just be mentally ill. It would not matter how profound the experiences would be. 

If you don't want to acknowledge nonduality, you're not wrong (with a nondual twist). It doesn't mean that it's right either. So trying to argue something from two different worlds of existence, assuming nonduality is only a concept, it absolutely pointless, but then again, everything is pointless and should not be taken too serious.

That concept only disappears when you believe it strongly enough and any other possibility dissappears, and then you are either right - or caught in dogma. But regardless, you are Right. In the sense you can't argue nonduality, as it applies regardless, there not being separation and what really is can never be known. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Eph75

[purerogue]

20 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@purerogue Yes, of course. Nonduality is a concept in itself, a construction of the human mind. Someone has to transcend the human mind and break the limitations of what we are limited to as humans in order to really know, and that's not within the freedom of the human form. Even with the greatest insights, awakenings, enlightenment or via psychedelics it can not be ruled out that nonduality could be a concept that exists for the sole reason to keep us preoccupied with this nonsense, yet anouther layer of disillusion, a greater trick and anyone claiming otherwise might just be mentally ill. It would not matter how profound the experiences would be. 

If you don't want to acknowledge nonduality, you're not wrong (with a nondual twist). It doesn't mean that it's right either. So trying to argue something from two different worlds of existence, assuming nonduality is only a concept, it absolutely pointless, but then again, everything is pointless and should not be taken too serious.

I will come of as arrogant, but I have explored fair share of states, so I think I have some understanding when I say , you will never know for sure. 

Non-dual states simply do not give you knowledge, it just makes separation, or merge, often not even communicable. 

Intellectual states that go outside of mind can not even be explained, so it for sure has nothing to do with your regular information of Oneness , or anything alike. 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by purerogue

[Eph75]

@purerogue That's not arrogant, and I agree. 

[RevoCulture]

@purerogue @Eph75

Question.. Eph75 sick thumbnail pic too.. Would that be a Necker Cube?

What do you two think of say Gautama the Buddha's teachings... The idea of transcending self and mind.. stepping into a nondual state, allegedly then attempting to guide people as if he gained "knowledge".

Is his work total BS then, since that kind of knowledge can't be captured or understood?  A guy selling snake oil BS?

Edited January 18, 2020 by RevoCulture