Bernie Sanders can get the nomination

[Apparition of Jack]

When even a stage Orange MSNBC pundit is saying Bernie will likely be the one to win in Iowa, you know the direction the winds are blowing.

The biggest threat to his nomination is the Biden voters who like Bernie's ideas but still think he's "too unelectable" because of a misplaced fear of the socialist label, since there’s a lot of them and they’d need convincing if Bernie is to have a shot at the nom. But it can be done. At this stage Warren isn't a player IMO.

As people interested in consciousness and collective awakening, I think it's important that we support Bernie Sanders and do everything we can (within reason) to help seize this opportunity and move America up towards Green.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Forestluv]

The energy of the movement spreading and getting stronger. People are taking notice and not everyone is happy about it. 

[Bno]

Could this be what Ken Wilber talked about in The Religion of Tomorrow: the next stage of consciousness spreads exponentially across the world once it reaches 10% of the population?

[SoothedByRain]

 

[Annoynymous]

Trends are with Bernie now. Oh gosh i feel very excited!! If he continues to keep the momentum, surely he's going to be the democrat nominee for 2020  

[Cocolove]

1 hour ago, Bno said:

Could this be what Ken Wilber talked about in The Religion of Tomorrow: the next stage of consciousness spreads exponentially across the world once it reaches 10% of the population?

I don't think so. Green is already over 10% Unless yellow at 10% would make green move up a bunch. What he seemed to be talking about was a yellow version of the green 1960's, or of the orange enlightenment. This is just a rise of solid green.

[Bno]

@Cocolove Yea that's what I meant, the rise of more stage yellow pushing stage green.

[Revolutionary Think]

It might be Yang he's more stage Yellow where Bernie is still in Green. 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Revolutionary Think  Yang is cool but his vision isn't as holistic as Bernie's IMO. His UBI is very popular, but it by itself doesn't do enough to redress wealth inequality, and it comes at the cost of existing welfare benefits, which is a bad idea. Also he seems a little to attached to the idea that it's automation that is the main source of America's ills, and while this has some truth to it there are structural issues that go much deeper than just job automation causing these problems.

Bernie's vision - a mass movement of working-class Americans getting energised and involved in fighting for their rights to make America a more equitable, sustainable, enjoyable place to live - has more long-term staying power in terms of actually transforming America than Yang's UBI IMO. Plus Bernie has the experience and record of pushing great policy, whereas Yang - as successful as he is - is still a political newcomer who would very likely be stonewalled by Congress.

[Hatfort]

Well, I hope so, I'm pro Bernie and you can call me biased all you want, but those who do, just ask yourselves if you are not biased for whoever or whatever first, I think that's fair. I have heard what the different candidates had to say before making my choice, if that means something.

I think he is the best candidate, he speaks well, he wants to balance power and economy inequality between low and middle classes and high class and big corporations. He presents the most ambitious health system reform, ambitious in the USA context, because in many other countries in Europe it exists and works, even conservative people love it once it's running. If it's not now, it will come later, in the future they will look at not treating people for lack of money as insane and inhuman, Medicare for all is at the right side in history, simple as that.

His position on wars in general and potential Iranian, thanks to Trump, in particular is very reasonable. It's also humane, he makes a brief revision of Vietnam and Irak, their motivations and consecuences, but it's not naive either, he does not discard using military force when necessary. I'll link a video of some days ago because he spoke well about all this.

He is not young, he is quite old in fact, but he still looks fine to me. We have Trump in front and my biggest concern is how easily he is able to inflame wars with foreing countries. Iran is clearly the choice they have made, after sounding out Venezuela and North Korea first. I guess it's still more popular to attack muslim countries in the Middle East and Kim Jong Un is just too crazy and would totally drop nuclear bombs to South Korea and USA if necessary, even if it costs eveything to them, because it totally would. I just want to say getting rid of Trump is a priority, for that, I will support whoever wins the Democrat nomination, but I'll go with Bernie for now.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Hatfort

[Bno]

Everyone, as systemic thinkers, let's realize that Trump is not the problem, but a symptom.

Having him as president is equally as bad as having Obama, Biden, Warren, Bush, Clinton, Klobuchar, or anyone else in the corporate establishment. We will continue to bomb other countries for oil, deregulate big industries, cut welfare, not have single payer healthcare, have stagnated wages as the price of living goes up, have jncreasing student debt, etc. This is because they all get paid by the same people, the rich elite.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Bno

[Bno]

 

56 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

I just want to say getting rid of Trump is a priority, for that, I will support whoever wins the Democrat nomination, but I'll go with Bernie for now.

@Hatfort Please do not forget that Trump is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is money in politics preventing policies from benefiting working people and grossly enriching elites. If we got rid of Trump and had Biden, Buttigieg, or Warren, a symptom (Trump) would be gone, but the problem is still there. Therefore getting rid of Trump is not a priority, but a step that needs to be taken with the right course of action. That right course of action is electing a true progressive as president and continuing to protest/inform/push for positive change.

Be wary of the "blue no matter who" mentality. This is what keeps society stuck.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Bno

[Hatfort]

12 minutes ago, Bno said:

Please do not forget that Trump is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is money in politics preventing policies from benefiting working people and grossly enriching elites. If we got rid of Trump and had Biden, Buttigieg, or Warren, a symptom (Trump) would be gone, but the problem is still there. Therefore getting rid of Trump is not a priority, but a step that needs to be taken with the right course of action. That right course of action is electing a true progressive as president and continuing to protest/inform/push for positive change.

Be wary of the "blue no matter who" mentality. This is what keeps society stuck.

I agree to some extent, because I would not be very satisfied with a nomenee like Biden or Warren. Trump is a symptom, but is also a problem himself, he is red, very unstable and volatile and he has authority as president. I think a war with Iran will continue to be on the table with him and may happen on his next term, for this reason, I think it's a priority to take him out.

That's over any other consideration for me, I don't think the Democratic candidates will trigger a war like Trump is doing. Iran has nothing to gain from this, see how they avoided to respond with American casualties for now. What's happening is on the USA, but if the USA continues provoking, in some point, even if it's for pride, Iran may respond more severily and then Trump and the interests behind having wars for profit, will go all in. Trump has to go, the faster, the better.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Hatfort  If you're truly that worried about getting Trump out of office (which is completely understandable), then even then Bernie is still the best candidate. I agree that Trump is going to have an uphill battle no matter who is the nominee, but if it's Bernie then he's all but guaranteed the lose. Bernie's populist policies and rock-solid record make him without a doubt the Trump's toughest opponent to beat, and Trump knows this. Like, it would be very possible that a Bernie victory over trump would be 55%-45%, a total wiping of the floor, compared to a much tighter race between Trump and Biden or Trump and Warren.

Bernie is extremely popular. He's a good orator who's ideas are intuitive and appeal to the majority of Americans. He's personable and has a genuine sense of integrity that every can respect, and it shows. He really is the best man for the job, and the best man to remove Trump from the White House, bar none.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Bno]

@Hatfort Hillary Clinton was being way more hawkish than Donald Trump during 2016. She even said she would "totally obliterate (Iran)." Let's also not forget her horrible foreign policies that even ended with an open slave trade in Lybia. Under the Obama administration, we ran out of bombs on the 7 countries we were (and still are) attacking: Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, and Somalia. 

The silver lining with Trump is that he is so dumb that rather than spend a year building a good argument for getting us into Iran, like Bush did with Iraq and Afghanistan, he impulsively just assassinated their well respected general. People were shocked and the war was disproved by an overwhelming majority. If it was Hillary or another corporate Democrat, they would've worked their way up to starting a war and many people would buy it.

[Hatfort]

@Apparition of Jack Yeah, I agree, I hope Bernie wins the nomination, but it's not guarantied yet.

@Bno I know, there's a lot to talk about questionable past interventions on foreing countries or conflicts and there are hidden interests under the carpet always. But what may happen in Iran is more equivalent to what happened in Irak or Vietnam, it's on the USA to start it or not, it has to be avoided. Hillary Clinton was an awful candidate for that reason too, even Trump used that against her, although now he is the one doing it. But we are not in 2016, we are in 2020. Let's hope Bernie wins, the nomination and the election, both will be difficult though.

[Bno]

@Hatfort Agreed, he and Tulsi are the only true anti-war candidates.

[Hatfort]

@Bno Tulsi is growing fine on me too. I don't prioritize identity politics, but I acknowledge that it can have some influence and maybe even value too, she could be a nice first woman president. It took Bernie a long time to get where he is now, a bit late to be honest, but Gabbard is young, speaks well and may have a future. I'd like that.

[Revolutionary Think]

@Apparition of Jack I'd watch this full video if I were you. 

   

[purerogue]

He should get nomination, but Democrat party does not want him, thous pools are fake, there is no way Biden is Democrat choice. 

But he will would lose to Trump. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by purerogue