Overcoming stage green ego

[Bno]

Hello Leo and fellow self-actualizers, I saw this video and really put things into words about intuitions I've been feeling even among stage green people. How much does race and gender play into blinding people with their ego, even when they are stage green?
I hope you can understand some frustrations I've been feeling as a minority. Even though there are some minorities that want to embrace the progressive movement, sometimes minorities do not feel welcomed because people, mainly whites (not all, there are a few who I feel very welcomed by), doubt my knowledge.

The whole video is insightful, my main points are explained starting 46:30 into the video though.

 

[purerogue]

Almost none in Democrat party gives a damn about Left, or country,  in my opinion Democrats have most fake and manipulative people you can get to see, they will take you and throw you out as soon as you  are of no use, changing opinions and sides as socks. 

Unfortunately Left is to blind to see manipulation and like to overreact way to much, making it difficult to make many connection with other party, 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Bno said:

How much does race and gender play into blinding people with their ego, even when they are stage green?

Even though there are some minorities that want to embrace the progressive movement, sometimes minorities do not feel welcomed because people, mainly whites (not all, there are a few who I feel very welcomed by), doubt my knowledge.

At an individual level my experience and observations is that stage green white people often have a lot of subconscious biases, subconscious privilege and subconscious guilt to work through. I grew up in a relatively affluent white community and it took a lot of work to get through subconscious conditioning. A lot of it was really uncomfortable and it took some serious work. Most helpful to me were diversity workshops, I've lived in poor minority communities in the U.S., Honduras, Guatemala, Peru and Colombia. I also was in a relationship with a black women who wasn't shy about calling out my subconscious biases. I've purified out a lot of it and aware of much more in myself and others. For example, I now notice how men in committee meetings often interrupt, talk over and correct women. I've also noticed some green white people change their demeanor in subtle ways when interacting with minorities. It's like a subtle form of of how adults change their demeanor when talking to children or someone with a disability. "Oh Tyrone, you make such a good point. Thank you for sharing it with us". There can be a frothy tone to it. Yet meanwhile the voices of white males are carrying the most weight. 

At an institutional level, there is a lot of underlying unfair structure that favor men and the majority. This also takes work to overcome and whites and men will be less motivated to change it. One thing I've noticed at my institution is that minority people want to implement more fair policies and have their voices and concerns heard. Yet there isn't as much energy to educate white people and help them decondition subconscious biases. At my work, that is one thing I try to do. As a white male at the top of my career ladder, it may carry more weight. If so, I might as well use that privilege to help progress. Yet I've found that most people are really uncomfortable talking about subconscious biases and subconscious privilege. It can trigger strong emotional responses and defenses - even with green white people (although the intensity is less). When it comes up, I have to be careful how I handle it. People have a "stretch zone" for growth and a "panic zone" that blocks them from growth. 

[Derek White]

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” - Socrates

Edited January 17, 2020 by Derek White

[RevoCulture]

Interesting.. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by RevoCulture
no need to comment.. just watch..

[Bno]

@Serotoninluv Thank you for sharing this. I have definitely noticed these types of behaviors from stage green whites in the work place but also in college. It also depends on where they've grown up and who they consider close friends. And it feels like a brand new world when you live in other countries. 

I think overcoming this ego, for everyone, can be achieved if we change our education system to be more open to learning the realities of different cultures. I remember Leo suggesting in Part 4 of Conscious Politics that he'd make it a requirement for young students to study abroad at least once.

[Forestluv]

Well said. I work at a University and think a required study abroad is a good idea. I would add an extra component: the study abroad environment must be significantly different than their counterparts conditioned environment. A white student that grew up in an affluent white community in the suburbs of Boston doesn’t get to study abroad in in an affluent white community in the suburbs of London. 

At institution, all language majors must study abroad one semester and must live in the “International House” on campus for one semester. I’d like to see this expanded to all students, yet it can be challenging with logistics and finances. It could be done, yet would take a coordinated effort by a lot of people. Hopefully, an academic institution does this as their “brand” and it attracts enrollment. Then other schools will follow to stay competitive in the market for students. There is also a business side to academic institutions. 

[Derek White]

@Serotoninluv Yea as a person of color I feel awkward talking to some 'progressive' people. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. There is a general air of awkwardness when some progressives talk to POC. Especially when it has to do with my culture, everyone just freezes as if I said a bad word.

On the other hand I have talked to some progressives and conservatives who are not like that.

I think a lot of people appear progressive because of political correctness but are really just closet conservatives. One time, I was part of a club in high school in grade ten in Canada. We were just waiting in a classroom after school to begin the club meeting, the teacher of the class was still there doing school work on the side. As we were waiting, I started telling someone my school experience in India, how schools there are are better in academics and how I was about 3 years ahead of everyone when I came here. Upon hearing this the teacher, sitting in his desk, interrupted our conversation and said how Canadian school are statistically better on average in a snobby way. I was about to respond, I think I even started my sentence, but then he aggressively said, " why don't you go back then?". I was about to respond to this too, firstly I was in grade ten so it's not in my power to go anywhere and I was not talking about 'averages', and there are so many other reasons as well etc. etc., but he never let me. Before I could say a word, while my mouth was still open, he just hit me with an angry "Yea" and looked away to do his paper work. I think he realized what he said was politically incorrect. The thing is he was well liked by students and taught social studies, seemed like an open minded and 'progressive' person. Later on I found more things about him which were quite bigoted like the above mentioned example or even worse. 

I was merely stating facts. it's well known around the world that Indians are smart, and a lot of that has to do with schools. Obviously not all schools but many upper-middle class schools are very good in academically, maybe not in terms of overall development but academics for sure. I was just sharing my experience. I wonder if it was another country, say Finland or Sweden,or if another 'Canadian' said this, would he get angry? Also some people are just always going to view others as immigrants, no matter how long they have stayed in the country, or how much they have contributed and left behind. Even if you give constructive criticism they will tell you to 'go back if you don't like it'.

I think it more about "our culture and religion is better than yours", east vs. west attitude (although there is racism too). I think if you believe your culture is the best in every field, your country has done nothing wrong, and your religion is the only true one, you cannot help but be xenophobic, whether you are a minority or not. 

[purerogue]

Everyone is bigoted and everyone has their subconscious biases, rather sad to see so much blame put on white people as if others are above it, none is, if you want to talk about subconscious biases then at least make it fair and do not put all on white people as if everyone else are angels. 

 

[Bno]

@purerogue No one ever said or implied that everyone else is an angel, just that white people have a certain subconscious priviledged ego that other people don't have because of how our current societal system operates. Did you watch the video?

[Forestluv]

“Everybody is. . . “,  “They do it too” , “Both sides-ism” and “Why should I have to work on this issue if they don’t have to?” are common ways for a white person and people to avoid taking looking at their own subconscious biases and privilege. This also clouds seeing disproportionate biases at the population level. . . . Similar to “Reverse racism” mentality. It’s one of the challenges I face when trying to discuss the issue with white people. 

One thing to keep in mind is disproportionate impact. Black/brown people are impacted much more by white subconscious biases than white people are impacted by black/brown subconscious biases because white. has more power and leverage. 

This is just my pov, others have different povs

[Nahm]

@Bno An additional perspective...in the from green to yellow vein...what can you share with me about the green views, which is other than your thoughts, perception, and sensation? 

[Bno]

@Nahm They view inequality as evil. Many dismiss or "cancel" anyone that has displayed an action that they perceive as being oppression towards a certain group or towards the environment (cancel culture?). Their biggest moral value is equality and fairness. 

Tbh, I've watched Leo's videos on spiral dynamics and I've read The Religion of Tomorrow by Ken Wilber, which integrates spiral dynamics into his stages of conscious development, but I haven't read the book on Spiral Dynamics in Leo's book list yet.

[purerogue]

12 hours ago, Bno said:

@purerogue No one ever said or implied that everyone else is an angel, just that white people have a certain subconscious priviledged ego that other people don't have because of how our current societal system operates. Did you watch the video?

Yes I did, what exactly this video has to do with white people "subconscious privilege", I guess you see whatever you want, if you are racist , then you will see stuff like that. 

Video was about abusive and manipulative behaviours, not about your skin color.

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

“Everybody is. . . “,  “They do it too” , “Both sides-ism” and “Why should I have to work on this issue if they don’t have to?” are common ways for a white person and people to avoid taking looking at their own subconscious biases and privilege. This also clouds seeing disproportionate biases at the population level. . . . Similar to “Reverse racism” mentality. It’s one of the challenges I face when trying to discuss the issue with white people. 

One thing to keep in mind is disproportionate impact. Black/brown people are impacted much more by white subconscious biases than white people are impacted by black/brown subconscious biases because white. has more power and leverage. 

This is just my pov, others have different povs

Then try to talk about subconscious biases with other races, tell me how it went, you are so far into this mentality that you are blame for all society problems that you should start to look at your own biases in this matter.

Tell me more about my privileges, I want to know more about them so I can start to use thous coupons that are specifically my skin color based.  

 

[Leo Gura]

If you think the progressive movement isn't woke enough for you, you're out of luck in this lifetime.

By fighting with progressives you end up helping the conservative devils who don't give a damn about minorities for the most part.

Don't overthink politics. When you have a choice between A, B, and C -- pick the most progressive one and be satisfied. The system can only evolve so fast.

Today's candidates are the best and most progressive ever. We are lucky to have them. Don't forget how bad things have been in the recent past.

[Bno]

@Leo Gura We need to know which leaders are actually progressive though. If we don't, then we'll be duped into more neoliberalism like what happened under Obama. We then evolved into a Trump administration. Not spreading this awareness of Warren's fakeness and people's unconscious privileged ego instead of taking action to wake people up is like settling with a method for meditation that is taking you slowly towards Self-Actualization and maybe never reaching it when you have other options like taking psychedelics or Kriya Yoga that can speed up the process. 

A lot of people didn't see through Warren's fakeness, mainly privelidged stage green whites who mean well but haven't taken notice of their ego blinding them from this reality.

I'm not saying I'm going to dump or leave the movement, just making an observation and asking people's insights for a conscious solution. This is about improvement. We can't settle for what we currently have, especially when there's so much error. I'm also not seeking any infighting, just seeking a proper way to spread consciousness to fellow progressives who mean well but are unaware of a major blindspot.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Bno

[Bno]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

Yes I did, what exactly this video has to do with white people "subconscious privilege", I guess you see whatever you want, if you are racist , then you will see stuff like that. 

Video was about abusive and manipulative behaviours, not about your skin color.

 

Clearly you didn't watch the whole video, just the part that talks about Warren being an abuser.

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

Then try to talk about subconscious biases with other races, tell me how it went, you are so far into this mentality that you are blame for all society problems that you should start to look at your own biases in this matter.

Tell me more about my privileges, I want to know more about them so I can start to use thous coupons that are specifically my skin color based.  

I'd say do some of the practices that @Serotoninluv did. You need to discover them on your own rather than argue online.

[Bno]

@Derek White Thank you for sharing. It definitely sounds like your teacher lived in a bubble for a long time. Many Americnas don't know that in many countries with colored that have some level of socialism education systems have high performance ratings in literacy and mathematics. It's as though he took it as a threat that people of color in other can be smarter than white north North Americans. All the more evidence that we need to implement required study abroad programs.

[purerogue]

2 hours ago, Bno said:

Clearly you didn't watch the whole video, just the part that talks about Warren being an abuser.

I'd say do some of the practices that @Serotoninluv did. You need to discover them on your own rather than argue online.

Maybe you need to discover some practices too, not point finger.

I think you are not even aware how racist you yourself are. 

Now you start to put some bs in about how why he defended his education system is because he is white and he is afraid of people of colors. 

Do you understand how racist you are, being defensive has nothing to do with your imagination of there being some color judgement,, open your eyes, you are acting no better then these people you are accusing based on your racism. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by purerogue

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura Not talking about 'real' progressives or any major figures, just talking about fake progressives, like fake feminists. You have criticized Jimmy Dore too.. who is a progressive, at-least by name. 

@Bno Thanks man. You're not a racist. 

None's blaming white people, people are blaming bigotry and people in the majority tend to be more bigoted than the minorities. It is counter-productive for minorities to be bigoted. Why would a Muslim living alone in Vermont be bigoted to white people? They wouldn't be able to function properly and they would be less likely to be bigoted because they interact with so many whites it would be hard to put them in a box. It's a lot easier to be bigoted against people you never met or don't need to interact with to survive. 

The majority's bigotry has tremendous consequences whereas minority's bigotry just hurts the minority. It's also disproportionate. Minorities interact with majorities more, rely on them as well, whereas the majority can afford to exclude the minorities (minorities usually don't have that privilege). It's like being a dwarf, dwarfs aren't bigoted against normal height people (usually), but normal height people definitely are.

White men aren't the only ones that get blamed. Don't Muslim men get blamed? Don't Indian men get blamed? Chinese? Hindus? Japanese? Jews? First nations people? Blacks? Everyone has collective guilt.