Leo (and of course all the other members of this forum), what should I do?

[actualizing25]

Hi guys, so basically Im searching for some advice on this forum, especially I want to know what Leo thinks should be the best way for me. So heres my situation: Im currently 23 years old, and Im really realizing that nothing in this material world makes me really happy nor will it ever in the future. Things like food, sex, relationships, money, success, socializing, working a job etc. nothing of this gives me happiness( a few years ago I thought they would, but I grew and developed myself and realized that I really dont need them for my happiness). Of course having some good friends or eating some good food can be a enjoyable, but it doesnt really make me happy. I really could live without all of these things. So I really got interested in finding a way out of all of this and I stumbled upon spirituality, awakening etc. and got interested in pursuing it (havent done any spiritual practice so far). On the other hand to be honest, I really dont care that much about questioning reality and contemplating things like reality, time, reason, consciousness, god, truth etc. I am not that much intereseted in metaphysical questions, so contemplation as a spiritual practice would not work for me. I really just want to find a way out of this "rat race" and want to experience bliss, joy etc. Its not that Im totally not interested in metaphysical questions, I am to some degree, but it is really not that much, that I could sit down and contemplate the nature of reality for the next hour. Maybe if I start the pursuit of awakening, the curiousity and desire for these questions will come? I dont know. So is it possible to get awakened if you are not interested in these questions, but just want to find a antoher a way out?

Thanks guys, appreciate all of your answers.

[lain]

So first 

Why are you not interested in them? Find out the reason. There might be a missassumption about reality which causes you to be uninterested. 

Another idea: Try out meditation for a month or two and see what it brings. This was for me first tiny taste of what spirituality might eventually look like. Got me more interested.

Or what about a psychedelic experience? Many people experience big changes in perspective from just one. But be very very careful with that. It's just a possible way, I don't say it's the best or something. Just an option. 

Do you know what your passions are? Maybe try focusing on life purpose and passions? 

I don't know if it's possible to awaken if you are not authentically interested in it. I don't think so tho

I guess if you just want to awaken because you wanna feel a great high, you won't reach it. But I have to admit that one of my motivations to meditate everyday is that these high awareness states do feel amazing. Not mindblowing yet, but amazing. 

[actualizing25]

@lain I havent found my Life Purpose. I tried to find it the last 5-6 years, but really havent found it yet. Im really struggling to find passions which you can build a career out of. 

What do you mean with "missassumption about reality"?

[SOUL]

You are actually in a perfect place to find inner peace right now because all the external things usually serve as a distraction from finding it.

Once you can have contentment in just being present no matter the conditions or externalities this will allow you to express this peace with everything you experience.

[actualizing25]

@SOUL but is awakening possible for me?

 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

Things like food, sex, relationships, money, success, socializing, working a job etc. nothing of this gives me happiness( a few years ago I thought they would, but I grew and developed myself and realized that I really dont need them for my happiness).

I really dont care that much about questioning reality and contemplating things like reality, time, reason, consciousness, god, truth etc. I am not that much intereseted in metaphysical questions, so contemplation as a spiritual practice would not work for me.

I really just want to find a way out of this "rat race" and want to experience bliss, joy etc.

Maybe if I start the pursuit of awakening, the curiousity and desire for these questions will come? I dont know. So is it possible to get awakened if you are not interested in these questions, but just want to find a another a way out?

These are just my impressions. If they allow insight, great. If not, that's fine too.

My impression is that you are in a form of limbo - there is dissatisfaction with the surface-level self seeking stuff - like sex, money, job etc. If you genuinely don't have the energetic desire and motivation for such things, you are really far ahead. I spent 20 years of my adult life seeking knowledge, relationships, career success, financial security until I had an existential crisis. None of that stuff was working anymore and the was a void I could not fill.

In this regard, you may be advanced. However. . . My impression is that your energetic orientation has not shifted to "transpersonal" seeking of Truth. I think it is good that you acknowledge this and are being honest with yourself about it. Going through the motions without the energetic desire is unsatisfying, frustrating and counter-productive. I don't think one can fake it. 

From my observations, the most common traits I see in the deeper awakenings are:

1. Their suffering becomes so intense that they are desperate and on the edge of life or death (E.g. Eckhart Tolle). Intense suffering can lead to surrender that allows space for awakening to arise, yet to me it seems rare that this alone is sufficient. I think Eckhart is an exception). One of the problems with this dynamic is that the person is still highly attached/identified to the personal construct. They want relief from their personal suffering. They are not oriented toward transcending the personal construct. So this route is very indirect. Everytime the person faces discomfort and pain along the spiritual path, they will recoil. Thus, this is a conditional orientation. They just want the relieving aspects of spirituality.

2. A predisposition to spirituality.  Some people seem to have spiritual gifts and things come easy to them. For example, I meditated for over 20 years without a single strong mystical experience. I noticed fellow meditators in the sangha having mystical experiences and realizations in far less time and effort than me. I've even met a couple people that suddenly had deep realizations with little effort. It just appeared and they didn't think it was that big a deal. 

3. Karma, past lives, place of birth/upbringing, genetics. To me, it seems like if someone is not carrying a lot of previous karma, conditioning and are in a relatively high conscious environment - there is a higher chance of awakenings. Someone born into poverty in Africa that is getting abused daily, is malnourished and has a family history of violence and trauma is less likely to have space to awaken. I'm sure it can happen, yet that is a lot to overcome.

4. Desire of Truth for Truth's sake. I would say this is the most important orientation. With this orientation, the person will constantly be drawn to Truth. I've seen a range of desire intensity. When it gets strong, the desire can be overwhelming. This can lead to intense curiosity, openness and willingness. If Truth is the highest desire the person will be willing to let go of there most treasured beliefs to reach a deeper level of Truth. They will be willing to sacrifice themselves and experience Truth. They will be willing to lose everything for Truth. They are even willing to die for it. . . I would say this is the most important energetic orientation since the person it open to all forms of Truth. They don't care whether it will make them happy. They don't care "what's in it for me?". The highest desire is to find Truth whatever it might be. If discovering Truth means experiences of insanity, terror and sorrow, that's just how it is and they are willing to walk through it. This orientation is not conditional on what flavors of Truth are revealed. Yet very few people have this orientation because it involves dynamics that threaten the survival of the self and the wellbeing of the self.

I would say Adyashanti, Leo and Nemo have (or have had) this energetic orientation. For example, Adyashanti had an insatiable desire to awaken. He wasn't seeking relief or seeking to be happy. He was seeking Truth. He meditated long hours and put all his effort into it. Before his major awakening during a meditation session he realized he may die right now - yet he kept going because he knew he would realize Truth prior to his death. Similarly, Nemo was handed a pill that guaranteed him realization of Truth. Nemo didn't know what was behind the door. It could be an eternity of pain and suffering. Yet he had a higher desire to know Truth. . . Many people love this moment and often try to identify as someone who would take that red pill of Truth. Yet I think very few people would actually do it. . . The closest we have to this in life is psychedelic "ego-death" experiences.

In terms of awakening - it doesn't sound like you have any of these orientations (other than perhaps #3). You may not have a heavy load of karma and conditioning). Yet I don't think that is sufficient - I think it just allows space and opportunity - yet other factors also need to be present. You've clearly stated that you do not desire realizing Truth for Truth's sake. That is fine, yet it means you will be very unlikely to realize Truth.

I can say that Truth is an acquired taste that can develop over time. Since you are not desiring material things, it could be that a genuine desire and appreciation for Truth may develop over time. However, if that isn't resonating with you now, I wouldn't force it. I would follow my genuine desire. Perhaps there is a desire for something like experiencing new things. If so, I would do something like travel to foreign countries and immerse myself into different cultures. Or perhaps learn to master a new skill of expression and creativity - like learning a musical instrument. 

If you are simply experiencing blissful experiences, I might look into using recreational drugs responsibly. After a while, one may realize that chasing blissful experiences doesn't do it either. They could then let go of that orientation and perhaps go deeper. 

[actualizing25]

@Serotoninluv Thanks for your long answer:) very kind and helpful words, I try to figure out now, what will be next for me. I hope that I can develop a desire to experience Truth for Truths sake.

[SOUL]

3 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@SOUL but is awakening possible for me?

 

Awakening is possible for anyone and it is a process, when one finds inner peace then the veil of self falls away in an evolving way. By peace I am speaking about the absence of conflict within you.

If you are already in a state where your desire for externalities or any of the 'spiritual' things others chase after then you are ripe for the type of contentment that awakens the inner being to liberation.

So just be still in your consciousness and observe. If you are hungry then eat, if you are tired then sleep but don't fret over what you think you should or shouldn't do...... Just be present in peace.

Edited January 16, 2020 by SOUL

[Nahm]

 

3 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

Im really realizing that nothing in this material world makes me really happy nor will it ever in the future.

Nothing in this material world makes me really happy. Passionate, carefree, creative, and in love. I’d see what nothing is if I was you. 

 

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

Im really realizing that nothing in this material world makes me really happy nor will it ever in the future. Things like food, sex, relationships, money, success, socializing, working a job etc.

Why doesn't this include responses from a forum? Subtly you're trying to cling onto this material world by taking external responses on here seriously. If you're actually sincere about what you say, stop that. What's the thing that makes you desire answers from here? Contemplate on that? Maybe that whatever that is, is the problem here. 

[Leo Gura]

@actualizing25 Overall you got a bad attitude about life. You are taking life soooo for granted.

It's not that those things won't make you happy, rather all things should make you happy.

Right now you are looking for some escape hatch from life via awakening, but the thing that awakening will reveal is that the escape hatch leads right back here! There is nowhere to go since here is already nowhere and nothing. The secret to happiness is simply taking great interest and joy in the tiniest things, like holding a glass of water in your hand or feeling the texture of your shirt as you put it on in the morning. 

The magic and joy is found in Being itself, not in any destination.

Life requires passion. Awakening requires passion. Stop waiting around for passion to come from outside. Generate it from within by starting to notice how amazing reality is at every corner. Don't take anything for granted.

Cultivate a curiosity and passion about reality. Then awakening will be possible.

Take a psychedelic to remind yourself how magical being is. You have lost touch with being. And being and awakening are one and the same.

[actualizing25]

@Leo Gura thanks for your answer, Leo, really appreciate it. But how can I develop a much deeper passion and curiosity for reality? Do I need a mystical experience first (through psychedelics for example) in order to enjoy Being more? Should I try to force myself to love Being and reality more? Can I do Yoga and Meditation to develop this curiosity/passion for reality and metaphysical questions in general? What are some real practical tipps?

[OmniYoga]

Quote

 just want to find a way out of this "rat race" 

consider deeply a thought - there is no way out

[Jonac]

3 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

What are some real practical tipps?

@actualizing25 writte down 5 or 10 things you could be interesting to. Investigate them (i.e. could be a desire to know what Yoga is, why people feel lost in particular ages of their life, what a black hole is, why there is something called spirituality, why there are humans among 'lesser' other animals, etc. You get the point) This will clear your mind.

[remember]

@actualizing25 did you ever go backpacking? somehow i have the feeling you are a person who might need to surrender yourself to a situation in which you need to realign yourself with your surrounding under more, let’s say challenging conditions than other people. like traveling china by bicicle or traveling by foot through peru or africa - i could also imagine you doing a trip to the north pole with an inuit tour guide or swim with sharks. i guess one of your problems is that because you are not interested in anything you never ever really start to get interested in anything.

[Mu_]

19 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

Hi guys, so basically Im searching for some advice on this forum, especially I want to know what Leo thinks should be the best way for me. So heres my situation: Im currently 23 years old, and Im really realizing that nothing in this material world makes me really happy nor will it ever in the future. Things like food, sex, relationships, money, success, socializing, working a job etc. nothing of this gives me happiness( a few years ago I thought they would, but I grew and developed myself and realized that I really dont need them for my happiness). Of course having some good friends or eating some good food can be a enjoyable, but it doesnt really make me happy. I really could live without all of these things. So I really got interested in finding a way out of all of this and I stumbled upon spirituality, awakening etc. and got interested in pursuing it (havent done any spiritual practice so far). On the other hand to be honest, I really dont care that much about questioning reality and contemplating things like reality, time, reason, consciousness, god, truth etc. I am not that much intereseted in metaphysical questions, so contemplation as a spiritual practice would not work for me. I really just want to find a way out of this "rat race" and want to experience bliss, joy etc. Its not that Im totally not interested in metaphysical questions, I am to some degree, but it is really not that much, that I could sit down and contemplate the nature of reality for the next hour. Maybe if I start the pursuit of awakening, the curiousity and desire for these questions will come? I dont know. So is it possible to get awakened if you are not interested in these questions, but just want to find a antoher a way out?

Thanks guys, appreciate all of your answers.

My response may be a little counter to the traditional answers you will find here, and again maybe not.  You sound like you know what you want and dont want, so why not just live that way?  Yes awakening can happen without any contemplation or practice.  if you dont want to experiment, don't.  If you do, do.   I'd suggest really looking into every detail you call this "rat race" you feel like your in and what would it mean to be out of it, FOR YOU.  Then see if you can do it.  I'd also really be honest with your life and ask yourself is it really so bad, are you taking what you have for granted, could it get worse, like lose your sight, legs, arms worse.  If so, let in the joys of what you have and what it provides you.  So easy to get lost in what we don't have or it not being just perfect the way we like it.

[Kalki Avatar]

If you know what you truly want right know you will experience a joyful Shift and save time.

I used to be in the same spot as you.

Look, right now you as infinite conciousness want to explode. You want to test your potential in the finite. What your soul really desires is self actualization. If you where financially independent, you wheren't in this forum asking. You would be playing with reality, learning, growing your self as a person and having many experiences. Thats what the system wants you, to not do shit, be stuck, have a narrow vision and run away. 

I would not recommend you to go crazy finding your passion and ultimate life purpose right now. You need to learn how to think independently, deeply, rationally, strategically in the middle and stop generalizing the truth. Look for the fastest way that suits you in order to just replace your income and have control of your time. Not to get rich, just to get out. Then after that, you will have more time to build a business and then after that you can start looking for that ultimate passionate life Purpose. Is better to escalate this way than waste your time jumping everywhere. Then after years of you playing with reality and being free, you will know if you want to liberate yourself. You are generalizing happiness. You can live a pretty good life without being enlightened too. No need to go extreme so fast. You will hit many walls like this. Telling you from experience. 

Nevertheless, for high success you still need Presence/Mindfulness, Meditation, Mind and emotional control, good sleep, diet and exercise, self organization, a clear cut vision of what you want, why the fuck you want it and what the fuck will happen if you dont achieve that. A sense of urgency is a must to get high quality results. Contemplation in order to constantly eliminate limiting beliefs absorbed by the external. Social skills and a magnetic personality. Lastly, understanding and experiencing Law of Attraction. 

Trinfinityacademy.com (Empowerment Section) 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[SOUL]

@actualizing25, I know it's easy for someone to tell another to have more passion and appreciation for life but it's not so easy to cultivate it if one doesn't have it. It's like trying to tell someone to appreciate or have passion for a certain song or food by just willing oneself to like it, it doesn't work that way.

Which is why I suggest that within your inner being just be still, don't resist, have acceptance with what is and observe your self. Use the lack of desire for externalities or spiritual practices and methods to your advantage. As you find your comfort in just being present the well being of inner peace will grow.

This will also allow you to perceive things from a place of well being so what resonates with your sense of well being will be what you seek to do in life instead of trying to force your appreciation of things that doesn't resonate with your well being.

Also I don't see how it is helpful to tell someone who is in a passionless or apathetic state that they have a bad attitude so don't take it personally if someone does. Don't allow another person's judgment of your current state to influence your disposition.

Find your peace in just being present so a sense of well being will grow in you and in this liberation you will awaken to what resonates with your genuine being.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by SOUL

[Leo Gura]

19 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@Leo Gura But how can I develop a much deeper passion and curiosity for reality?

Just be curious about stuff. Stop taking things for granted. Go outside and wonder at the ants crawling around on the sidewalk. Buy a magnifying glass to look at them closer. Study them. Appreciate how amazing they are.

And so forth.

Quote

Do I need a mystical experience first (through psychedelics for example) in order to enjoy Being more?

That would certainly help open your eyes.

Quote

Should I try to force myself to love Being and reality more? Can I do Yoga and Meditation to develop this curiosity/passion for reality and metaphysical questions in general? What are some real practical tipps?

All spiritual practices are ultimately about this. But even before you do heavy spiritual practice you can just start by being much more curious about small mundane things like ants, birds, trees, people, clouds, language, politics, religion, science, space, the moon, etc. There is no end to curiosity. Buy a telescope and look at the stars. Buy a microscope and look at the microscopic life in a puddle of water from the sidewalk.

Leonardo Da Vinci is a great role-model for curiosity. Maybe study him and his work a bit.

Or if you're really lazy, just search for cool stuff like this on Youtube:

 

 

 

 

[RevoCulture]

@Serotoninluv You obviously have plenty of time and interaction on this forum.  I have incredibly limited time on the forum in comparison and I have a question.  The topic of this thread, how common is it?  I feel like i have seen this expressed multiple times, it makes sense really.  Thanks