Overwhelmed by too many practices and teachers.

[Matteo]

I tested many meditation techniques, some of them in more depth than others. (I did two vipassana retreats and lived in sadhguru's ashram for three months, practicing several hours of yoga every day)

 

Many teachers advertise one technique or more, and they have their own explanation on why it's supposed to work. They also have criticisms towards other teachers and techniques, which confuses me even more.

 

I like to test things for myself and see if they work, so that I don't have to take somebody else's opinion about what to practice, what works, what is safe, what delivers results in a reasonable span of time, but in my experience I can't really tell if anything that I've done had some effect on me or not.

 

Right now I'm very confused and overwhelmed by the quantity of instructions and techniques out there and the fact that they seem to require so much time to start delivering results. In this confusion I find almost impossible to pick one technique and stick with it. I haven't practiced regularly in months.

 

Do you resonate with this? I don't want to just give up the whole thing, but I feel that this is what is going to happen if I don't resolve some of my confusion.

 

You may share some techniques that really did something for you and describe your experience with them a little bit.

 

What I'm primarily looking for is more happiness, long lasting peace and satisfaction.

 

Also, I heard so many times the idea that I am God, I am the absolute, that reality is an infinite hallucination, that all is one, that I would love to see if this is true for myself. And possibly maintain that awareness.

[OmniYoga]

kind of resonate with you
I meditate 4 years or more and only noticed small minority shifts in my perception ( towards myself, others, and world)
but at the same time people change with time as well - so I can't be even sure is that due to meditation or not 
when you don't have direct experiences and results, it seems like those people are deluded and what they talk about is fairy tales and all of that doesn't make sense whatsoever

and I wonder it would be just better to live your life {in a rational manner - like bill gates or warren buffen} - and don't even bother with at all woo-woo mabo jambo that can't not be proven

[purerogue]

You must have done something very ,very wrong if you say that you have not seen any improvement.

What kind of practices you where doing and how much time did you put it them.

 

Omni. problem is that you only sit like vegetable and hope that God almighty will strike you with 10 years worth of work, if you expect something from 15 min meditation then you have better chance by putting thous 15 min into running. Can't see how anyone who  seriously want changes would be able to give only  such small amount  their daily  time. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by purerogue

[iamme]

Listen to the original audio files of Lester Levenson, read the autobiography No Attachments No Aversions, read the book Releasing Technique and see if you can stick to that. It's basically hard core self inquiry and you should have free time and determination to get results fast. Or read Ramana Maharshi and meditate on that. But self inquiry is the fastest way there is if you don't want to rely on psychotropics.

[WelcometoReality]

@Matteo I did one practice for several years. My whole life became the practice. That might be another possible approach.

[Aaron p]

@Matteo yo, bro. People get stuck for ages. You gotta learn how to say "hmm, I wonder if this dickhead is right?" You have to *study* Leo's material, it is the best. Do not believe me, believe your heart. Sadhguru will not get you enlightened...mooji baba might get you enlightened if your INCREDIBLY wise, gifted and lucky. You need leo. And in my opinion the 2 most important things you need (if you actually want to make progress with this shit) is tougher standards and an intuitive sense of the voice of the holy spirit. 

Tougher standards. It's not enough to just go "aw yeah this guy looks like the real deal hmm I'll listen to him." You gotta be like this; "right, this boy seems to be wise. I can sense the spirit in me resonating with his words. But is this motherfucker giving me what I need to attain actual liberation? Or is he just trying to make me a nicer person along with his thousands of other unelightened followers. I should let the holy spirit within me, guide me to stronger teachers, since enlightenment will not come about easily." 

 

You gotta be ruthless motherfucker, or you will waste a lot of time. Mate, if someone's giving you wishy washy techniques that take fuckin 10-20 years with minimal results...holy fuck, that's moronic. Powerful Psychedelics! Test kits! Kryia yoga (get the book)! hardcore self enquiry! That intuition is the most important thing. Listen to it until you know what it's telling you. Sit silently with a single question at a time and just let the vibration tell you what the holy spirit is saying

[fridjonk]

2 hours ago, Matteo said:

Also, I heard so many times the idea that I am God, I am the absolute, that reality is an infinite hallucination, that all is one, that I would love to see if this is true for myself. And possibly maintain that awareness.

Ever thought about trying psychedelics ?  

[Farnaby]

2 hours ago, Matteo said:

I tested many meditation techniques, some of them in more depth than others. (I did two vipassana retreats and lived in sadhguru's ashram for three months, practicing several hours of yoga every day)

 

Many teachers advertise one technique or more, and they have their own explanation on why it's supposed to work. They also have criticisms towards other teachers and techniques, which confuses me even more.

 

I like to test things for myself and see if they work, so that I don't have to take somebody else's opinion about what to practice, what works, what is safe, what delivers results in a reasonable span of time, but in my experience I can't really tell if anything that I've done had some effect on me or not.

 

Right now I'm very confused and overwhelmed by the quantity of instructions and techniques out there and the fact that they seem to require so much time to start delivering results. In this confusion I find almost impossible to pick one technique and stick with it. I haven't practiced regularly in months.

 

Do you resonate with this? I don't want to just give up the whole thing, but I feel that this is what is going to happen if I don't resolve some of my confusion.

 

You may share some techniques that really did something for you and describe your experience with them a little bit.

 

What I'm primarily looking for is more happiness, long lasting peace and satisfaction.

 

Also, I heard so many times the idea that I am God, I am the absolute, that reality is an infinite hallucination, that all is one, that I would love to see if this is true for myself. And possibly maintain that awareness.

Wow, this really resonates with my own experience. Also, what @OmniYoga said about not being sure if it's the practices that are helping or just the maturity gained from the years of life experience. I also tend to second guess myself like that and be extremely skeptical towards anything that has such a big subjective component to it. 

But if it really were only because of the normal changes due to aging, everyone would feel more grounded as they age and that's not always the case. If you observe people, there are indeed many who seem more grounded but also many that don't, so I definitely think what you do with your time has an impact on your well-being, and meditation, etc., certainly helps with returning to a centered and calm state more easily.

@Matteo what I personally find to have a big impact is approaching life in a holistic way. Focusing only on spiritual seeking isn't enough IME. Things that I found really helpful: 

- Meditation (but not following a particular step by step technique, just letting go and observing anything that arises in my awareness). This is really helpful to be able to tolerate discomfort and the void we may feel when we're not distracted. 

- Exploring my unhealthy habits and their possible underlying causes (usually some sort of avoidance of emotional/existential discomfort). 

- Psychotherapy, exploring my relationships, my beliefs, how this relates to what I've experienced in life.

- Making an effort to go out of my comfort zone, especially when it comes to speaking my truth and having honest conversations with important people in my life (still working on this lol).

- Trusting the flow of life 

- Having a balanced routine (when I backlash, I go to sleep really late, binge on video games and used to regularly smoke weed, wake up late, eat unhealthy food, stay at home too much, etc.). I found keeping an eye on these habits is really important to feel grounded and mentally stable. 

These are the things that come to mind. Generally speaking, I would suggest finding a balance between more intellectual and spiritual seeking and just plain down to earth matters such as work, relationships, diet, exercise, etc.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Farnaby

[OmniYoga]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

You must have done something very ,very wrong if you say that you have not seen any improvement.

What kind of practices you where doing and how much time did you put it them.

 

Omni. problem is that you only sit like vegetable and hope that God almighty will strike you with 10 years worth of work, if you expect something from 15 min meditation then you have better chance by putting thous 15 min into running. Can't see how anyone who  seriously want changes would be able to give only  such small amount  their daily  time. 

I don't know why do you underestimate my work and effort
name at least one thing in the world that you stick to it for even a 15 minutes everday over long period like 4-5 years and you won't notice progress
I know only two - self -help and spirtuality - both are in realms of mental masturbation

also I don't understand why god is hiding from me in the first place
the truth is truth whether you sit there for a minute or an hour
same with applies to whether something is working or not

nevertheless I'm willing to accept that challange and  expand meditation time to an hour per day ... minium
how long will take to see first resluts 30 days? 60 days? 90 days? it will be easier for my psyche to have a concrete number to stick to it

[purerogue]

18 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

I don't know why do you underestimate my work and effort
name at least one thing in the world that you stick to it for even a 15 minutes everday over long period like 4-5 years and you won't notice progress
I know only two - self -help and spirtuality - both are in realms of mental masturbation

also I don't understand why god is hiding from me in the first place
the truth is truth whether you sit there for a minute or an hour
same with applies to whether something is working or not

nevertheless I'm willing to accept that challange and  expand meditation time to an hour per day ... minium
how long will take to see first resluts 30 days? 60 days? 90 days? it will be easier for my psyche to have a concrete number to stick to it

Why , because 15 minutes is nothing, with 15 minutes you are lucky if you will be able to  enter meditative state, let alone have time to do anything.

1 h  is good start, but you will need more then mediation if you want fast results.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by purerogue

[OmniYoga]

1 hour ago, iamme said:

 read the book Releasing Technique 

@iamme full name and author ? - I can not find it

Edited January 15, 2020 by OmniYoga

[Consilience]

If you want an actually effective meditation approach look into samatha practice outlined in The Mind Illuminated. It directly works towards transforming your mind, perceptions, and emotional system. Ive seen enormous results from practicing so far and look forward to continuing it in the years to come. Typically meditation alone doesnt do much. This samatha practice starts by working to stabilize your attention span. Only until your mind can actually stay focused for extended periods of time do the true benefits of meditation start to unfold. So after you’ve worked towards this stabilization process, you work towards increasing mindfulness, basically increasing the potency of your perception. This has massive carry over into everyday life a life starts to become much more vitalized, it’s like your conscious is being sensitized. Eventually as your mind becomes unified (a process I dont care to write up about) you begin to have the ability to generate pleasure, happiness, and joy during your meditation with ease, which makes the sits incredible. Eventually these pleasurable, happy, joyful qualities start to permeate into life off the cushion. Once your mind has achieved this state of samatha, your ability to contemplate and introspect has dramatically increased. 

In my experience, this approach to meditation has made everyday life feel like Im micro dosing psychedelics, or have a light buzz from weed without the mental fog. Bad habits have been falling away, good habits are spontaneously arising. Im not trying to overstate the benefits but this has been my experience. If you want to learn how to truly, consistently transform the mind, get the book, follow the steps outlined. 

[Commodent]

6 hours ago, Matteo said:

Right now I'm very confused and overwhelmed by the quantity of instructions and techniques out there and the fact that they seem to require so much time to start delivering results.

In my view, this is a good thing. It's an invitation to find your inner authority.

[Matteo]

@Consilience I heard about that book several times. There is even a sub Reddit dedicated to it. How long did it take for you to see results? Months ago I was doing a concentration practice suggested by Om Swami, staring at a candle for minimum 7 minutes, two times a day for 40 days. Are you referring to something similar when you talk about stabilizing the attention span? When I did this practice, I haven't noticed significant changes.

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

If you want an actually effective meditation approach look into samatha practice outlined in The Mind Illuminated. It directly works towards transforming your mind, perceptions, and emotional system. Ive seen enormous results from practicing so far and look forward to continuing it in the years to come. Typically meditation alone doesnt do much. This samatha practice starts by working to stabilize your attention span. Only until your mind can actually stay focused for extended periods of time do the true benefits of meditation start to unfold. So after you’ve worked towards this stabilization process, you work towards increasing mindfulness, basically increasing the potency of your perception. This has massive carry over into everyday life a life starts to become much more vitalized, it’s like your conscious is being sensitized. Eventually as your mind becomes unified (a process I dont care to write up about) you begin to have the ability to generate pleasure, happiness, and joy during your meditation with ease, which makes the sits incredible. Eventually these pleasurable, happy, joyful qualities start to permeate into life off the cushion. Once your mind has achieved this state of samatha, your ability to contemplate and introspect has dramatically increased. 

In my experience, this approach to meditation has made everyday life feel like Im micro dosing psychedelics, or have a light buzz from weed without the mental fog. Bad habits have been falling away, good habits are spontaneously arising. Im not trying to overstate the benefits but this has been my experience. If you want to learn how to truly, consistently transform the mind, get the book, follow the steps outlined. 

6 hours ago, purerogue said:

You must have done something very ,very wrong if you say that you have not seen any improvement.

What kind of practices you where doing and how much time did you put it them.

 

Omni. problem is that you only sit like vegetable and hope that God almighty will strike you with 10 years worth of work, if you expect something from 15 min meditation then you have better chance by putting thous 15 min into running. Can't see how anyone who  seriously want changes would be able to give only  such small amount  their daily  time

 

[Consilience]

@Matteo Something similar yes. In the book, the object of focus is the breath at the nostrils. And really, the minimum he recommends is 45 minutes. I do 1 hour per day and noticed an immediate improvement within 1 week. In the book, he characterizes 10 stages of meditation practice, I progressed through stages 1-4 very quickly due to my prior meditation experience, 5 was about 1.5 months and Ive been at stage 6 for around 2.5 months but starting to see glimpses into 7/8. I suspect the later stages will take a good bit of time to manifest. 

Essentially at first, your goal is to pick a meditation object, the breath is a nice one, and hold your attention there. The moment you see your mind has wandered, acknowledge this “aha!” moment and then gently return to the breath. You want to get really good at noticing when you’ve lost focus, getting good at having ‘aha’ moments. Eventually you’ll get so good at noticing that you’ll be aware in the moment of your attention shifting away, which is the goal. As your attention gets more stable, feelings of pleasure, happiness, and joy begin to bubble up. You’ll also become much more effective at contemplation and get better at tripping on psychedelics, better in the sense that you’re able to contemplate more deeply and handle challenging experiences with more equanimity and acceptance. The book has more techniques outlined as you progress through the stages that will help you along your journey.

Again, this has been my experience. 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, it is a real problem. There are more techniques and teachings than you can study in one lifetime.

Once you sample a handful, you gotta pick the stuff you're going to commit to.

It's like speed dating. The point is to find a good match and then get married. You don't keep speed dating forever.

[Farnaby]

7 minutes ago, Consilience said:

@Matteo Something similar yes. In the book, the object of focus is the breath at the nostrils. And really, the minimum he recommends is 45 minutes. I do 1 hour per day and noticed an immediate improvement within 1 week. In the book, he characterizes 10 stages of meditation practice, I progressed through stages 1-4 very quickly due to my prior meditation experience, 5 was about 1.5 months and Ive been at stage 6 for around 2.5 months but starting to see glimpses into 7/8. I suspect the later stages will take a good bit of time to manifest. 

Essentially at first, your goal is to pick a meditation object, the breath is a nice one, and hold your attention there. The moment you see your mind has wandered, acknowledge this “aha!” moment and then gently return to the breath. You want to get really good at noticing when you’ve lost focus, getting good at having ‘aha’ moments. Eventually you’ll get so good at noticing that you’ll be aware in the moment of your attention shifting away, which is the goal. As your attention gets more stable, feelings of pleasure, happiness, and joy begin to bubble up. You’ll also become much more effective at contemplation and get better at tripping on psychedelics, better in the sense that you’re able to contemplate more deeply and handle challenging experiences with more equanimity and acceptance. The book has more techniques outlined as you progress through the stages that will help you along your journey.

Again, this has been my experience. 

I've tried this (although not so consistently) and I always find myself second guessing myself.

Like for instance when I notice my mind wandering, I tell myself to bring my attention back to my breath. But as I do this, I ask myself: "Isn't this a thought too that's actually taking myattention away from the breath?". You know, like the saying: "if you're thinking about the music, you're not really listening".

Am I doing it wrong by telling myself to bring my attention back again and again to the breath?

[Consilience]

41 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

I've tried this (although not so consistently) and I always find myself second guessing myself.

Like for instance when I notice my mind wandering, I tell myself to bring my attention back to my breath. But as I do this, I ask myself: "Isn't this a thought too that's actually taking myattention away from the breath?". You know, like the saying: "if you're thinking about the music, you're not really listening".

Am I doing it wrong by telling myself to bring my attention back again and again to the breath?

No you are not doing it wrong. This is precisely correct. This meditation system is about allowing the mind to train itself. Bringing your attention back to the breath is mind. Getting distracted in the first place is the mind too. You’ll notice that the mind is both the source of focus and the source of being un-focused. So don’t over think it or second guess yourself. This method is, at its core, about the mind training itself so that the intention of stable focus is the intention that actually manifests. 

A key existential insight - you aren’t the one training the mind, again the mind is training itself. Pretty spooky but fascinating hehe

[Farnaby]

21 minutes ago, Consilience said:

No you are not doing it wrong. This is precisely correct. This meditation system is about allowing the mind to train itself. Bringing your attention back to the breath is mind. Getting distracted in the first place is the mind too. You’ll notice that the mind is both the source of focus and the source of being un-focused. So don’t over think it or second guess yourself. This method is, at its core, about the mind training itself so that the intention of stable focus is the intention that actually manifests. 

A key existential insight - you aren’t the one training the mind, again the mind is training itself. Pretty spooky but fascinating hehe

Thank you! I'll keep doing it like this then and see where it leads me