Fear in my abdomen

[Buba]

After last psychoanalysis session it turned out I repressed my homosexual feelings, so they were stored in my unconscious. It induced fear in me and I found it disgusting. 

Now I have intense fear in my abdomen and intrusive thoughts that I will never accept my sexuality fully because of my family conditioning and will get stuck in this conflict and commit suicide.  2 years ago in my Dark Night of the Soul I had such fear and intrusive thoughts that if I dont get enlightened I will get stuck in this hell forever.

So does intrusive thoughts induce fear or fear induces intrusive thoughts? If second, then What causes that original fear that takes different forms (themes)?

Also I let thoughts go and bring my focus in now and feel fear mindfully and it increases fear and something in the background craves for validation, so I think or google things which will make it calm down. I know it since my childhood and know that after just several minutes it will start to panic and crave for validation again. So I leave it to starve and bring my focus to now and just relax and be. This increases fear and sometimes I panic I will go insane, so I step back and start to think in order to feed it in the background. How many hours or days or months continually being in the now will starve that shit to death? 

[Buba]

This fear first time appeared after months of meditation, that is why I posted it in Meditation subforum.

[dharm4]

"what you resist persists"

Feel your emotions in your body and look at them without giving them a label.

Don't try to overcome them, just look at it without judgment.

There is a voice inside you that says "I don't want to feel this" and it creates the seperation between the emotion and the self.

Mindfulness is the key.

[DrewNows]

To share an experience i had while on a mushroom trip, there was the very same experience of fear/pain or an aspect of me trapped within the abdomen. I believe it was related to the suppressed feminine side. I was sitting on the floor and breathing into the pain, eventually laid back and put my hands over my abdomen and continued breathing into the pain. There was wholeness and freedom, i had been completely ready and willing to die, to surrender, the sense of self/ego and only then was the healing/release of energy possible. Eventually I was overtaken by the divine feminine as i completely let go. Turned into an amazing experience, best trip by far.

Edited January 12, 2020 by DrewNows

[Buba]

Thank you for your responses.

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

To share an experience i had while on a mushroom trip, there was the very same experience of fear/pain or an aspect of me trapped within the abdomen. I believe it was related to the suppressed feminine side. I was sitting on the floor and breathing into the pain, eventually laid back and put my hands over my abdomen and continued breathing into the pain. There was wholeness and freedom, i had been completely ready and willing to die, to surrender, the sense of self/ego and only then was the healing/release of energy possible. Eventually I was overtaken by the divine feminine as i completely let go. Turned into an amazing experience, best trip by far.

When you came back from the trip, did that freedom disappear?

Does feminine side implies homosexual side in a man?

[Buba]

11 hours ago, dharm4 said:

"what you resist persists"

Feel your emotions in your body and look at them without giving them a label.

Don't try to overcome them, just look at it without judgment.

There is a voice inside you that says "I don't want to feel this" and it creates the seperation between the emotion and the self.

Mindfulness is the key.

Is that emotion I resist is universal or does it have a truth content which is different in everybody and in my case it is my gay side.

[Nahm]

When you let go of judging yourself, you have heard the message of your feelings, and your abdomen, fear, and panic subside. 

 

 

[Buba]

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

When you let go of judging yourself, you have heard the message of your feelings, and your abdomen, fear, and panic subside. 

 

 

I cant let go of judging myself. Because:

1. I am scared if I let everything go I will become full gay, sucking and jumping on dicks. I can accept everything but not this. This is my red line.

2. Even if I accept myself at intellectual level, I still dont accept myself deep down. And judging goes automatically. I dont think on purpose. When I come closer to the core fear, a thought comes which is so scary I cant help but go to the thought and think to calm myself down.

If I manage to bring myself in the now each time a thought comes, will something happen? Because I feel something big will happen, and shake out my body. And it seems if finally I feel it fully it will disappear. But how long should I be in the now for it to disappear? Because it is very hard, over time fear increases if I dont think to calm myself down.

Sexual identity crisis and existential crisis make me paralyzed and draw me to inside my head.

[Nahm]

@Buba You could, now, realize it is the judgment which feels bad, wether you are judging gay people, being gay, yourself, or anyone else. The feeling says your perspective is not true altogether. Why recreate the same perspective over and over when feeling guides you? 

Do you ever feel like, “maybe I’m wrong about something here”....”maybe it’s been fine to feel fine the whole time, and there never was a “problem”...?

Is there someone in particular, that you want validation / love from? Who?

[Farnaby]

Probably intrusive thoughts because you have a lot of resistance towards the possibility of being gay. 

Did you grow up in a very homophobic family or culture? 

I'm a straight guy and I've had moments of doubt regarding my sexuality, so I think most people have these moments. I've also had moments of low libido where I thought I was asexual, but when I started having healthier habits, the sex drive regulated itself again. Just the normal flow and change in feelings, not what the thought about asexuality was pointing to. It was just a congruent thought with my emotional state at that moment.

Try accepting that doubt like any other thought and it will slowly cause you less fear. Not everything you think is true.

However, it could be good for you to sit with the possibility of being gay and let the feelings that arise flow. It would help you face that fear and find out how much truth, if any, there is to your fear.

[Buba]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Buba You could, now, realize it is the judgment which feels bad, wether you are judging gay expel, being gay, yourself, or anyone else. The feeling says your perspective is not true altogether. Why recreate the same perspective over and over when feeling guides you? 

Do you ever feel like, “maybe I’m wrong about something here”....”maybe it’s bee fine to feel fine the whole time, and there never was a “problem”...?

First comes feeling and then a judging thought. So even if I did not judge, still the feeling is negative. What I can do is to ignore or repel the thoughts, and bring focus to feelings, which is hard.

By the way are you in a constant state where you never feel there is a problem and you are always in peace.

[Nahm]

11 minutes ago, Buba said:

First comes feeling and then a judging thought. So even if I did not judge, still the feeling is negative. What I can do is to ignore or repel the thoughts, and bring focus to feelings, which is hard.

First “comes” the only actual sensation....unconditional love (which is actually you, and you don’t come & go).    Then a thought (duality) is “added”, and an “emotion” is created & experienced.

It IS the judgement.......”the feeling is negative”.     Who would you be, without judging feelings?  

Quote

By the way are you in a constant state where you never feel there is a problem and you are always in peace.

States come & go within I am.  By creating the distinction of “state”, you are inherently pointing to that which comes & goes, vs what is “constant”. It is you which is constant, not states. 

If there is something that in the relative (I am separate) perspective doesn’t suit me, or is not beneficial to that belief that I am separate - then I would label that - a “problem”. When that perspective is let go, being seen as “self” serving, but not at all Self serving, then there is no “problem” anymore.  When you ask if I experience “problems”...you are asking if I judge situations or people as “problems”, or if I just see that they simply are, as they are. They are, as they are. 

“ I “ could never be “in” peace. I am peace...states, problems, distinctions, feelings, thoughts, perspectives...these come and go. Peace does not come and go. Music comes and goes in silence, silence doesn’t come & go. 

 

You might be thinking...and trying to find, in thinking, if you should feel ashamed.

Take a step back from that, and honestly ask yourself if you even believe in shame to begin with. If the answer is yes, given how it feels - why continue believing in it?

[Buba]

2 hours ago, Farnaby said:

Probably intrusive thoughts because you have a lot of resistance towards the possibility of being gay. 

Did you grow up in a very homophobic family or culture? 

I'm a straight guy and I've had moments of doubt regarding my sexuality, so I think most people have these moments. I've also had moments of low libido where I thought I was asexual, but when I started having healthier habits, the sex drive regulated itself again. Just the normal flow and change in feelings, not what the thought about asexuality was pointing to. It was just a congruent thought with my emotional state at that moment.

Try accepting that doubt like any other thought and it will slowly cause you less fear. Not everything you think is true.

However, it could be good for you to sit with the possibility of being gay and let the feelings that arise flow. It would help you face that fear and find out how much truth, if any, there is to your fear.

Yes I grew up in homophobic family and culture.

Have you ever had sexual fantazies with men?

[Farnaby]

6 minutes ago, Buba said:

Yes I grew up in homophobic family and culture.

Have you ever had sexual fantazies with men?

It makes a lot of sense that you are afraid of these thoughts having been conditioned to believe it's a sinful thing people should be ashamed of. 

Do you need to hold that belief or does it belong to other people and can be dropped? If you want to let go of this belief, you can do it. It won't be easy and may trigger a lot of fear (after all, you had to believe it to be accepted and loved), but it is definitely doable.

You wont become gay just because you stop judging yourself. It's the same as if you let yourself feel your anger. You won't act out on it just because you allow yourself to feel it. 

To be honest, I've imagined sex with men some times and never found the idea arousing or appealing. But don't take this to litteraly, because you may be so scared of being gay that you can unconsciously arouse yourself even if you aren't gay. 

The best advice is to let judgements aside and sit with your thoughts and feelings.

[DrewNows]

11 hours ago, Buba said:

When you came back from the trip, did that freedom disappear?

Does feminine side implies homosexual side in a man?

Only the need to express it did. That aspect became a part of awareness 

Not it goes beyond attraction. I could be bisexual but I’ve always had a strong attraction or aversion to women 

[Buba]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

First “comes” the only actual sensation....unconditional love (which is actually you, and you don’t come & go).    Then a thought (duality) is “added”, and an “emotion” is created & experienced.

It IS the judgement.......”the feeling is negative”.     Who would you be, without judging feelings?  

States come & go within I am.  By creating the distinction of “state”, you are inherently pointing to that which comes & goes, vs what is “constant”. It is you which is constant, not states. 

If there is something that in the relative (I am separate) perspective doesn’t suit me, or is not beneficial to that belief that I am separate - then I would label that - a “problem”. When that perspective is let go, being seen as “self” serving, but not at all Self serving, then there is no “problem” anymore.  When you ask if I experience “problems”...you are asking if I judge situations or people as “problems”, or if I just see that they simply are, as they are. They are, as they are. 

“ I “ could never be “in” peace. I am peace...states, problems, distinctions, feelings, thoughts, perspectives...these come and go. Peace does not come and go. Music comes and goes in silence, silence doesn’t come & go. 

 

You might be thinking...and trying to find, in thinking, if you should feel ashamed.

Take a step back from that, and honestly ask yourself if you even believe in shame to begin with. If the answer is yes, given how it feels - why continue believing in it?

I believe you Nahm. But it is beyond my control. I have been meditating for almost 3 years. But my mind is still the same and judges me all the time. I dont know what to do. I also have existential crisis. Sense of self disappeared yesterday. But it was horrible. 

Should I keep meditating and then someday definitely I will accept everything about me?

[Buba]

8 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Only the need to express it did. That aspect became a part of awareness 

Not it goes beyond attraction. I could be bisexual but I’ve always had a strong attraction or aversion to women 

So it was a radical change. So now you accept yourself whatever you do and you would easily sleep with men if you wanted.

[Buba]

26 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

It makes a lot of sense that you are afraid of these thoughts having been conditioned to believe it's a sinful thing people should be ashamed of. 

Do you need to hold that belief or does it belong to other people and can be dropped? If you want to let go of this belief, you can do it. It won't be easy and may trigger a lot of fear (after all, you had to believe it to be accepted and loved), but it is definitely doable.

You wont become gay just because you stop judging yourself. It's the same as if you let yourself feel your anger. You won't act out on it just because you allow yourself to feel it. 

To be honest, I've imagined sex with men some times and never found the idea arousing or appealing. But don't take this to litteraly, because you may be so scared of being gay that you can unconsciously arouse yourself even if you aren't gay. 

The best advice is to let judgements aside and sit with your thoughts and feelings.

I think I have gay side. I enjoy homosexual fantasies. That is why this internal conflict is so huge. I never thought fantasizing makes you gay. But to be honest I enjoy them and I feel I have a great potential to act out on it. However I am still unsure. Also I am in a big denial. I dont know if something is true or just I am in denial. I have had sex with feminine men as an active (man’s role). But I have never ever been atracted to a man in reality as a passive (women’s role). I dont know whether because I dont want it or because I repress my want unconsciously (as my psychoanalyst says), and that is why I dont see it. I am unsure but I can say based on my sexual feelings there is a great potential in me to act on these fantasies.

[DrewNows]

7 minutes ago, Buba said:

So it was a radical change. So now you accept yourself whatever you do and you would easily sleep with men if you wanted.

I wouldn’t say that, perhaps if I developed a close friendship with a guy who identified as gay then I might be open to it. I’ve had a few encounters with gay men either trying to be friendly or openly asking/flirting with me since then and ended up politely rejecting them rather than responding with fear/rejection. I have long hair and don’t care  , although, sometimes I do care what others think and choose not to express myself. I can be feminine and masculine. I love to dance and sing and I used to inhibit myself and judge it as acting girly or gay. I realize now the energy expressed and the principles I choose to follow are expressions of Love and choosing a more full version of me means allowing for constant change/flux modifications to the Identity I bring forth, judgment of myself and others is just a laughing matter as ‘I am’ all that is

[Nahm]

35 minutes ago, Buba said:

I believe you Nahm. But it is beyond my control. I have been meditating for almost 3 years. But my mind is still the same and judges me all the time. I dont know what to do. I also have existential crisis. Sense of self disappeared yesterday. But it was horrible. 

Rather than ‘my mind judges me’.... there’s just one arising thought at a time. Relax & inspect it. Try writing about the feelings. It seems like any which way you “go” you’re heading to self-love, and letting any judging of being straight, bi, or gay, go. It’s not like sexuality is or should be expected to be a black & white thing. Truly, in any case, you’re actually fine. No pressure to ‘make the call’ or anything, right? Explore, learn more what you do like, and what you don’t.

Should I keep meditating and then someday definitely I will accept everything about me?

I wouldn’t hold an expectation of meditation outside of relaxing and letting go of everything. If anything, meditation could be said to be a letting go of thinking of past & future, not a means to a future ‘better feeling’. Now is where & when feelings are, so don’t create a belief feeling better is in the future. Let go, inspect, etc, feel better now.  Maybe do a Judge Your Neighbor (Byron Katie) worksheet or two, to loosen up the current beliefs / perspectives. Writing about feelings is often very clarifying.