How practices keep the self illusion alive!!

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

You don't think Self- inquiry is a useful practice for Self-realization?

If you knew nothing of awakening or enlightenment and didn't do practices, then how would you turn within? Would that even make sense to you, if someone just told you to turn within? Wouldn't you think they were talking of thoughts, feelings and emotions?

How are they to see that the little "me" is illusion without spiritual teachings or practice, such as neti-neti, Self- inquiry, etc?

What your preaching is very neo-advaita, emphasizing the direct recognition of the non-existence of the "I" or "ego," without the need of preparatory practice.

Telling ppl caught in the experiential world that they are illusory, or that nothing can be done to attain enlightenment is not helpful.

No you're way off and you took my information out of context. I'm not preaching either... and who are you to judge whether something is helpful or not..

What I was saying was practicing is not necessary to attain the knowledge about how the mind created self is a fiction. Practice is not required to understand and recognize something.

The ME character is nothing more than layers of beliefs, ideas perceptions and opinions stored in the mind. None of it is actually Who You Are.

For example one person may think you are the nicest person in town, and the next may think you are a selfish jerk. Their opinion of you is not anything permanent, and its dependent on their mood, and their conditioning. If they're in a good mood they may think you're great if they're in a bad mood they may think you're annoying. You see none of it is actually who you truly are.

When all the imaginary labels, perceptions, beliefs, opinions and ideas are dropped, WHAT IS LEFT?

Words do not equal the YOU... peel off all these layers of the imaginary self....don't stop until they're all Stripped Away. 

Commenting on areas where you lack true experience is really what's unhelpful... it might not be obvious to the youngsters but it's obvious to someone who has the experience. 

I think the real issue is that you actually believe you know.. I have put out an incredible amount of priceless information on this forum.. but the cup must be emptied before it can be filled ❤

" The biggest obstacle to Discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"

 

[Inliytened1]

7 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

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What I was saying was practicing is not necessary to attain the knowledge about how the mind created self is a fiction. Practice is not required to understand and recognize something.

 

Maybe we are not all on the same page here.  if you are talking about reading a book, a video, or learning on a forum about the self or the ego being a fiction and then believing it -then that's one thing.  But the problem is that when you do that you are taking it on as a belief.   That is a trap one can fall in and thus never discover Truth directly.  Truth is known not by knowing but in Being or isness. 

Of course one is being/issing right now.  You are Truth right now.  Truth is THIS - BUT...and this is a huge but, (no pun intended) unless one has had a non-dual state (samadhi) in which they became conscious of that, then for them to say it would still be a belief.  And they run the risk of self deception in which the ego is telling them there is no ego so that it keeps the ego from killing itself.  Its a survival mechanism of the ego.

So we are talking about transcending or getting underneath knowing and knowledge.  This requires mystical states of consciousness.  Death.  A state of Samadhi.  Non-dual states of consciousness in which the illusory self falls away and there is only the Absolute.  

It is only in this state of consciousnes that consciousness becomes conscious of its true nature.   It is pure actuality laid bare.  

Now as far as getting back to the practicing question - when i first discovered spirituality i began self inquiry meditation and it was during that meditation that i reached states of samadhi.  The first mystical state happened within a few days of switching between self inquiry and no mind meditation.   During this time frame i experienced multiple non-dual states both during meditation and either just sitting in a chair afterwards or waking up from sleep, or just resting in bed.  So i have had states of samadhi both during meditation and spontaneously (they happened in the first month of starting self inquiry.)  I then integrated back into the ego/form  (but now knowing that the form was actually the formless appearing as form). 

I then experienced a second set of non-dual states i believe it was a month or so after that - again some both spontaneously and some while meditating.  These were even more powerful.  I feel these completed my awakening.   That's not to say that i will never die again / reach a mystical state but at this point, I'm there.

So at present i do not feel the need to do any practices but at the same time i still enjoy sitting in silence and meditating - but just to be at this point.  

The reason i am saying all of this is because yes - it is possible to have spontaneous states of samadhi after just reading or learning about spirituality but i think that doing practices such as self inquiry can help induce non-dual states of consciousness as they seemingly did for me.  If one is super gifted though, it could happen without any practices.  For the average person though, i don't feel it works as simply as that.  I feel that these tools can really help trigger mystical states.

It's just tricky and paradoxical (of course) because i was not seeking anything when i did them.  I honestly had no idea what i was getting into.  I was an atheist and a rationalist/materialist my whole life. So I think if one tries too hard or they are not ready for Truth to reveal itself it will not happen.  Yet if they are ready, the slightest trigger could potentially open the door to hitting a non-dual state..but that is just my take.    As i have stated on this forum before i cannot speak directly on pyschedelics because i did not use them.  But it does sound like they can be a tool if one is ready for Truth.    

As far as the realizations during these states, i can say from direct experience that becoming conscious that the self is an illusion is just one realization.  During my states of samadhi i have had one where i have become directly conscious of the nature of reality instantaneously, what my truest nature is (awareness itself) and that there is no self.  I have also had the realization of Oneness in which i became conscious that all perspectives were Me as God/Infinity.  All realizations came with TOTAL and i mean TOTAL bliss that words cannot explain.  To describe what the states themselves felt like words cannot do.   But pure divinity is a good start.

Death is bliss.

I am interested in knowing your path to your state or states of samadhi?  Did the falling away of the self happen for you spontaneously and what was it like?  For me as i said it was death.  The ego was completely killed off (no sex drive, absolutely no desires for anything, and just pure bliss.  As form returned it followed with some ego backlash (the Oneness especially was tough to swallow)  and the integration between duality and non-duality.   This is how it must be. 

Now, you have said in the past that you had spent a lot of hours on spirituality - did you do self inquiry?

 

 

 

[Eu Sint]

The only practice without which you cannot access the enlightenment and which you cannot dispose of after enlightenment is the practice of silence. In fact, between the practice of silence, the Silence itself and You, there is no difference because You are Pure Silence aware of itself. From Silence everything is born and in Silence everything dies.Only Pure Silence is Pure Eternal Presence.❤️

[Javfly33]

18 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

You actually aren't anyone, but the truth is you tacked on the belief that you are God on top of the egoic illusory self and are now a deluded spiritual ego that thinks it knows what it's talking about and seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder or just too many hallucinogenics.

" Three things cannot be hidden for long the Sun the moon and Truth"

 

 

Hahah that is the best post i´ve seen in a while. Very well said god damn it, tired of this kids preaching stories within stories.

[zeroISinfinity]

@Inliytened1 Thanks my man. 

Yes actual realization of no self is pretty much death. 

IT really is. Nothing philosophical about it. 

So practises,actual stuff. 

All that actual infinite Love. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Inliytened1]

@zeroISinfinity indeed my man

❤? and i can intuit you have been to the other side as well.

[zeroISinfinity]

Yeah just few days ago. Meditated for few hours to "get there". 

So who ever say. 

Oh I realized there is no self. Just str8 out lies to himself. 

So practises. 

All talk really counts for nothing. 

May I say this. 

Most likely they will pussy themselves out. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[VeganAwake]

@Inliytened1  I was Hardcore Seeker for about a year-and-a-half but I could feel myself slowly getting burnt out. 

I thought to myself I must have came across the truth by now. I remember I kept hearing it's a turning 180 degrees within and a falling away not a gaining of something.

So yes I turned within and started self inquiring.

Shortly after I recognized that this ME character is just a compilation of ideas beliefs thoughts perceptions and labels I have allowed myself to buy into over the years. It was recognized that the story of ME was not the true ME.

Then I started shedding the layers.. it started feeling lighter and lighter so I continued until there was nothing left,  Just emptiness or a pregnant nothingness. It's simultaneously recognized there never was an individual ME inside the body... the whole thing was a sham of the Mind.

It's recognized the seeking perpetuated the illusion and keeps one distracted from turning within and seeing the truth. This is why the ego is infatuated with seeking externally it knows if the veil is peered through for too long the truth will be discovered about it's non-existence.

The seeking actually prolongs the recognition and perpetuates the belief in a separate ME character.

At the end of the day it's a recognition that there was nothing to find... and the whole illusion is created in the mind and by energy contracting in the body.

❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[purerogue]

9 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

@Inliytened1  I was Hardcore Seeker for about a year-and-a-half but I could feel myself slowly getting burnt out. 

I thought to myself I must have came across the truth by now. I remember I kept hearing it's a turning 180 degrees within and a falling away not a gaining of something.

So yes I turned within and started self inquiring.

Shortly after I recognized that this ME character is just a compilation of ideas beliefs thoughts perceptions and labels I have allowed myself to buy into over the years. It was recognized that the story of ME was not the true ME.

Then I started shedding the layers.. it started feeling lighter and lighter so I continued until there was nothing left,  Just emptiness or a pregnant nothingness. It's simultaneously recognized there never was an individual ME inside the body... the whole thing was a sham of the Mind.

It's recognized the seeking perpetuated the illusion and keeps one distracted from turning within and seeing the truth. This is why the ego is infatuated with seeking externally it knows if the veil is peered through for too long the truth will be discovered about it's non-existence.

The seeking actually prolongs the recognition and perpetuates the belief in a separate ME character.

At the end of the day it's a recognition that there was nothing to find... and the whole illusion is created in the mind and by energy contracting in the body.

❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds good, do you know any source that explains what is essence of thought ME, like there is thought , this , or that is my , but what is essence of thought,feeling  ME. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by purerogue

[Nahm]

32 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I could feel myself slowly getting burnt out

If you hadn’t done this...

32 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

So yes I turned within and started self inquiring.

You wouldn’t have realized this.

 

Why create the duality that one is seeking / not-seeking, ‘path’ / “no-path”, the way / no-way, love / headless ness, etc. Were “you” not always “on the path”? (In hindsight) Also, when you are well aware there are no dualities....that you create them...such as the direct path, and the progressive path...why continue creating them?

Also, I’m just curious...when you say to people in your life... “it’s this!”, and suggest no path, no practices (when you were on the path, and you did practices) doesn’t “inner being” give you a sort of “signal”? Is there not compassion & value in explaining the “turning within” (practice) to help others? 

What are your thoughts on thriving in the ‘practical’ / relative world by first developing a strong confidence in “self” and then deconstructing, rather than not addressing things like self confidence, self esteem, etc, at all?

[VeganAwake]

49 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Sounds good, do you know any source that explains what is essence of thought ME, like there is thought , this , or that is my , but what is essence of thought,feeling  ME. 

This is work you have to do for yourself turn within and discover the essence that you believe yourself to be. What is this me character inside the body? Where does it reside? What is it made out of? ❤

[purerogue]

5 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

This is work you have to do for yourself turn within and discover the essence that you believe yourself to be. What is this me character inside the body? Where does it reside? What is it made out of? ❤

I am not talking about character, character is just character, I am asking about feeling of being. 

[zeroISinfinity]

When I turn within I discover ❤️ which is all of this. Maybe I do not find homoniculus that talks inside cranium as me but I discover Love of ❤️

So there is a real MYSELF which is Being/Conciousness. 

People you are interacting with videos spiritual teachers your family all SELF. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

If you hadn’t done this...

You wouldn’t have realized this.

 

Why create the duality that one is seeking / not-seeking, ‘path’ / “no-path”, the way / no-way, love / headless ness, etc. Were “you” not always “on the path”? (In hindsight) Also, when you are well aware there are no dualities....that you create them...such as the direct path, and the progressive path...why continue creating them?

Also, I’m just curious...when you say to people in your life... “it’s this!”, and suggest no path, no practices (when you were on the path, and you did practices) doesn’t “inner being” give you a sort of “signal”? Is there not compassion & value in explaining the “turning within” (practice) to help others? 

What are your thoughts on thriving in the ‘practical’ / relative world by first developing a strong confidence in “self” and then deconstructing, rather than not addressing things like self confidence, self esteem, etc, at all?

Well first of all Duality is an illusion... dualities cannot be created when its understood non-duality is all there is. Your explanation/belief of creating dualities this incorrect. Basically it's an incorrect opinion that dualities are being created when they are not. The appearance of individual waves still happens, but they were never apart from the body of the ocean. It was never duel. "The separation never occurred" -ACIM

There isn't a self to build up that's the illusion. So yes it's as silly as it sounds the Ivory Tower is being built up, just to be recognized as an illusion. 

I don't really consider self-inquiry a practice because it's not really something you improve at. But I guess it could be argued otherwise.

Either the self illusion is seen through or it is not. If there is a deep enough look at it it can probably be recognized but if it's just a glimpse or an intuition it might not be enough.

This information is just pertaining to Awakening there are other benefits from meditation yoga mindfulness practices and Etc. 

Identification with the body/mind as the self is the illusion. The body-mind can be conditioned to operate heavy machinery, wash dishes, clean houses, seek for enlightenment...etc.

The Ivory Tower that is being constructed is the illusion.

The funding for construction of the Ivory Tower needs to be cut off. And the tower needs to be recognized as an illusion, hit with a wrecking ball and knocked down... it's Paradigm needs to be shattered like a mirror. The best part is since the construction materials aren't real the deconstruction process doesn't always have to be that painful. ❤

As long as the funding/belief is there the construction will keep going forward.

Sometimes the blueprints of the Ivory Tower change to give the appearance of a new spiritual Ivory Tower. The ego says see this is a healthy Ivory Tower... you don't want to tear me down this is the truth. But it is just another illusion trying to rebuild itself as the spiritual Ivory Tower.

THIS is all there is and whether Awakening occurs or not it's all happening within THIS. There is no one way is better than the other.

THIS is real and unreal it's nothing being everything. It's the absolute. It's unknowable and undescribable. It's a pregnant nothingness being everything. 

It's complete, it's whole, it's perfection, its completeness, it's Paradise, the kingdom of heaven... Enlightenment/ it's liberation from the egoic self agenda keeping you running on the hamster wheel for your whole life, and seeking for something external to make itself Feel Complete.

It makes no sense to reinforce and build up the Ivory Tower just so It can be knocked down.

It's easy to see how this can be an issue as everyone is running around reinforcing the Ivory Tower instead of recognizing it's an illusion.

"No individual has ever stepped foot through the gateless gate.

No one can enter the gateless gate so be nobody"

❤ ?

 

 

 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, purerogue said:

I am not talking about character, character is just character, I am asking about feeling of being. 

I can't tell you how you feel... some people are submerged deep in the illusion... others are floating somewhere near the surface.

I never had a strong sense of identity so is easier for me to see through the illusion of the self. ❤

 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

So no ME, nothing to find, nothingness, etc., and then what? Do you hover in black nothingness, or are you dead inside like a stone (no one home/totally unconscious)?

No literally nothing changes except for the realization that it's not happening to an individual ME character.... It's Just Happenings

Before Enlightenment chop wood and carry water after Enlightenment chop wood and carry water.

What has changed is the resistance to what is.... and it's much less of a personal experience because the ME character is recognized to be a complete illusion.❤

[purerogue]

16 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I can't tell you how you feel... some people are submerged deep in the illusion... others are floating somewhere near the surface.

I never had a strong sense of identity so is easier for me to see through the illusion of the self. ❤

 

I am well aware where you are coming from, but I am interested more in seeing trough illusion of time and experience  itself.

Is it sustainable, or is it the end. 

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake Thanks. By creating dualities I didn’t mean splitting God in half. I mean the distinctions you’re making. What about the other questions, any thoughts? 

[zeroISinfinity]

@VeganAwake What I really beleive is THIS(pls don't unleash the beast, oh no you will, yes). 

You filled your mind with non dual teachings turned them into new sets of beleifs and you live from that standpoint. 

Actual Truth and really wanting you to actually discover it (because you are me and I love you so much) takes actual path and actual practises. 

Yes everything will stay the same but really inverted. 

Truth is so Divine so Good that you will have really hard time wrapping your head about it. But you will be all alone. 

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, purerogue said:

I am well aware where you are coming from, but I am interested more in seeing trough illusion of time and experience  itself.

Is it sustainable, or is it the end. 

Time and experience still apparently happen... it's real and unreal... it's just not happening for an individual that you think you are..

Who are you? Turn 180 degrees and look within. Where is the sense of you located in the body? What is it constructed of?