Where do thoughts come from?

[King Merk]

It feels as if thoughts spontaneously arise "within me". Meaning, I don't see, hear, taste, smell or feel thoughts "out there" but only within me.

I can't seem to get a grasp on thought. I can't seem to pinpoint where thoughts arise from. I'm also wondering why I can only experience "my" own thoughts and not the thoughts of others. In fact, at all times I have no certainty as to what another person is thinking or even that they are thinking... which is fucking with my head.

My questions are:

1. What are thoughts?

2. Where do thoughts arise from?

3. Where do thoughts go after I'm done experiencing them? 

[SoonHei]

@King Merk same as sounds

Close your eyes. Where do sounds around you arise from?

Smell. Taste. Sight. 

 

All within you, as you said

 

All from the source. Or nothing/void/ potential.

 

Same with thoughts. Mind is another sense.. like ur ears, nose etc

 

It picks up/hears/understands thoughts to YOU.

And yes. Thoughts simply arise.

 

The entire experience is ONE ARISING in YOU.

[Natasha]

@King Merk Thoughts are energy forms with illusory content, which arise and disappear within the collective ego-mind.

[Leo Gura]

"Within me", "out there", and "another person" are thoughts.

You cannot use thought to grasp thought any more than you can use a knife to cut itself.

Sit in silence and observe thoughts arising.

[Forestluv]

@King Merk You have multiple forms of separation including subject-object, spatial and temporal. 

For example, you’ve created a thing called a “thought” that came from a place not here to a your brain place here in time. Then the thought thing goes from your here to another place not here in time. 

At a metaphysical level, it seems mysterious to me. I have observed my thoughts appear and disappear. One of my meditations is to sit with a thoughtless mind and observe the first thought to arise. To my observation, it simply appears Here and Now. “From where “ the thoughts arise from is a mystery. On a physical level, we could investigate locations of the brain and neurotransmitters. On a metaphysical level we could inquire. Perhaps realization will arise. When awareness observes thoughts without attachment/identification, interesting things are revealed. For example, I notice the inter-connectedness between thought and not/thought. The interconnectedness between thought, feelings, happenings and time is amazing.

For example, yesterday I was on an airplane and noticed a teenager wearing a Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon T-shirt. I thought about how I grew up with Pink Floyd Music in the 1980s and I thought about how cool it was that Pink Floyd music has continued into the consciousness of younger generations. Then I thought about times I listened to Pink Floyd when I was young. I felt happy and nostalgic. This is all inter-connected. The happenings of “past” and “present”. Memories, Pink Floyd T-shit, thought and feelings. 

As the young man and I walked toward baggage claim, there was an old musician in the airport playing Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here”. I thought about how yesterday my sister, nieces and I had a discussion about Synchronicities and Coincidences. I asked myself “Is these Pink Floyd happenings  synchronicity or coincidence?”. I then thought “It doesn’t matter”. I smiled and started singing “Wish You Were Here” in my head. 

It is all inter-related. There is no “me” sitting “inside” my head that is separate from my “outside” surroundings. It’s all inter-connected in an amazing collective consciousness. Sometimes I want to figure out the mechanics of it. Other times I just want to be it. 

[Shin]

Where does the big bang comes from ? ?

Edited January 11, 2020 by Shin

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, King Merk said:

It feels as if thoughts spontaneously arise "within me". Meaning, I don't see, hear, taste, smell or feel thoughts "out there" but only within me.

I can't seem to get a grasp on thought. I can't seem to pinpoint where thoughts arise from.

Let them go and intuition “arises”. This is a deeper richer better feeling less limited intelligence. Eventually, experientially, there are no single or finite ‘thoughts’, just “shifts” in feeling / intuition as emotional intelligence, dreamlike & wonderful, awe, as ‘thought’ no longer arises in questions, or explanations of perception & sensation.  

I'm also wondering why I can only experience "my" own thoughts and not the thoughts of others.

“My own” is a thought...shapeless, size less, groundless. A thought has no gravity, but is thanks to it, so to speak.

In fact, at all times I have no certainty as to what another person is thinking or even that they are thinking... which is fucking with my head.

”Fucking with my head” is just a thought, which you are giving power, or life, to. You don’t have to. Write down the poster, and see if there is any truth in it. Allow the purification, the emptying, of the feelings. The body does it intelligently, just relax, relax, relax, don’t buy into the one-any-a-time stream of thoughts. Notice how they are sneaky, how they attempt to get you to attach by ‘hijacking’ the feeling...such as labeling our unconditional being, as “anxiety”, etc. There is no ‘true thought’...they’re all relative. Look there, and you’ll only find more thoughts. There is no “wrong” feeling, listen to them. 

My questions are:

1. What are thoughts?

You. They are for choosing (only what is unlimited could choose of what is limited). They are for creating. You have been using them for this since day 1.

2. Where do thoughts arise from?

You / nothing / LOVE, the natural could-not-be-otherwise occurrence of what is infinite, experiencing itself through the finite lens (us).

3. Where do thoughts go after I'm done experiencing them? 

Black holes aka “singularity”  (“The Oneness) / recycled aka pure consciousness, aka you minus any veils.

 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm Have serious question. 

Here is example. 

Lets say I see hot hippie chick(which is me but lets forget that?). Feeling say go after her(oh you... blondine, who cares this is fun) but tought arises "hey bro she is out of your league" and you start feeling bad. Why would toughts that arise from same blackhole

1.split One into fragments 

2.be limiting and harmful

[King Merk]

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@King Merk same as sounds

Close your eyes. Where do sounds around you arise from?

When I close my eyes and focus on sound, it seems as if the sound is arising “out there”. It seems as if sound is coming from a particular object that’s separate from me. It doesn’t feel like it’s inside me like thoughts do.

Same with taste, touch, smell and sight. 

I’ve heard the whole “reality is immaterial” lecture multiple times from multiple teachers but I just don’t get it. I can’t embody it. I’ve had nondual experiences where my sense of self expanding beyond this flesh suit but it just doesn’t make sense when I come back down from those experience.

It’s like my sense of self shrinks back down to encapsulate my body and I don’t get that expansion in my day to day life. 

[King Merk]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@King Merk You have multiple forms of separation including subject-object, spatial and temporal. 

For example, you’ve created a thing called a “thought” that came from a place not here to a your brain place here in time. Then the thought thing goes from your here to another place not here in time.

The whole Pink Floyd and interconnectedness between thought and no thought is very interesting. I hadn’t “thought” about it like that before  

However I’m still struggling with breaking the whole sense of separation thing. It seems so obvious that I’m separate from the objects I experience.

I’ve had mystical experiences that reviewed to me the interconnectedness of everything and I can logically think about oneness and nonduality all day long... but it just doesn’t make sense in my normal state of consciousness. I still can’t embody it. 

How do I break free of this “illusionary” sense of separation?

[King Merk]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

"Within me", "out there", and "another person" are thoughts.

You cannot use thought to grasp thought any more than you can use a knife to cut itself.

Sit in silence and observe thoughts arising.

I’ve been doing that for years bro? guess I just need to go deeper. Thank you for the feedback. 

[remember]

@King Merk realize what is chi? where does chi arise? where does thought arise? it is not separate but it is. 

what do you feel if you listen to „wish you where here“? there is a special phrase i love in this song. what thought arises in you? i have a different memory than @Serotoninluv has. where does this music come from? the source of this lies outside but within. you can experience that, but in this case you need to apply meaning to it.

look into the eye of the vortex.

Edited January 11, 2020 by remember

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Nahm Have serious question. 

Here is example. 

Lets say I see hot hippie chick(which is me but lets forget that?). Feeling say go after her(oh you... blondine, who cares this is fun) but tought arises "hey bro she is out of your league" and you start feeling bad. Why would toughts that arise from same blackhole

1.split One into fragments 

2.be limiting and harmful

Thoughts don’t arise from black holes. Thoughts do not split One into fragments, but are experientially appearing as such. What appears on the screen is not in any way dividing the screen. Limiting and harmful are not actual, they’re thoughts. Give those words / thoughts meaning, or don’t. The words / thoughts are relative appearance, as is the meaning. The scope & breadth of creating potential is ideal. 

[silene]

There's a coincidence that I was also thinking this exact same question this afternoon   I had a thought that we learn language and ideas as we grow up so therefore thoughts spring up from our memory somehow, there's a process going on stringing together ideas already held in memory. I remembered that J Krishnamurti used to teach something similar (another memory from reading his books!) and then I also spent some time simply observing the now without thought. I felt perhaps I could see what Krishnamurti was getting at, there was a vivid contrast between thinking conceptually from my memory banks and just being in the here and now, free from the past. 

What this process is, which picks up bits of memory and strings them together into a new thought stream is a bit mysterious though. Maybe the 'executive function' (part of the brain). 

Edited January 11, 2020 by silene

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm Thanks! 

Should stop playing games. That's for sure. 

None of self referential toughts are true. 

Since self exists only in reference about outside world. All toughts about world collapse too. 

LOVE is revealed as MYSELF. Whole Self or Being.

Quite cool. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Amilaer---]

Holy moly! I tackled this question recently on the last day of my solo retreat.

They arise out of nowhere, what's the worst... they arise when I do not expect them, just lose attention and BANG! They shock like my beloved Poland in front of the European Union. 

Thank you @Serotoninluv for your answer. It resonates with me a lot - inter-relatedness - emotion...thought...external sound...thought. I will contemplate what you wrote and listen to Pink Floyd.  Danke. 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, King Merk said:

The whole Pink Floyd and interconnectedness between thought and no thought is very interesting. I hadn’t “thought” about it like that before  

However I’m still struggling with breaking the whole sense of separation thing. It seems so obvious that I’m separate from the objects I experience.

I’ve had mystical experiences that reviewed to me the interconnectedness of everything and I can logically think about oneness and nonduality all day long... but it just doesn’t make sense in my normal state of consciousness. I still can’t embody it. 

How do I break free of this “illusionary” sense of separation?

I would accept that the direct experience is more important than trying to figure it out via thinking. I would also let go of how a nondual experience should be like, or expecting that life will be in some sort of nondual awareness all day. I've dropped the categories of dual and nondual. From a subjective experience, I flow through dual, partially nondual and deeply nondual states each day. Yet I don't "check in" on my "nondual status". I don't stop and think "where am I on the nondual scale? Am I at a 2 or 4 right now?". . . Yet in the beginning, I think it's helpful to think of dual and nondual along a spectrum. Having a binary construct of "I am either 100% One or 100% Separate" is counter-productive in my experience. I would think of it more in degrees. 

My approach would depend on context. For me, psychedelics are the #1 way for me to dissolve the subjective sense of separation and enter nondual states. Other people may resonate differently, yet for me, I am nearly guaranteed to have nondual features on a trip. They also helped me enter these states easier while sober and how to recognize them. While sober, part of the difficulty is letting go into it. The mind may think "Is this how it's supposed to be? I still feel separate. That thing over there isn't me". Psychedelics can dissolve that chatterbox.

Without psychedelics, here are a few things that have helped me. You mentioned that sounds seem like "outside" of you and thoughts seem "inside" you. This has been a great area for me to explore. The "outside / inside" of sound is much easier to explore than vision. You say that sound appears "outside" of you. Let go of that idea, because it's not always true. You can find this out in 1 minute. Put on a pair of headphones and close your eyes. Voila! The sound seems inside your head! Listen to something like simple nature sounds with some bird chirps. It is easy to imagine those bird chirps inside your head. Inside the same head as your thoughts. Or, close your eyes and imagine your space of awareness going beyond your skull. With nature sounds and headphones, it is pretty easy to imagine.

The next sound exercise is a bit more challenging, yet it is pretty easy to get. With a speakers, play some white noise - I like 10,000 HZ. I use multiple speakers around me to make it harder to locate. With multiple speakers, it is not that easy to locate the exact position of the outside source of the sound, since the sound is diffuse, uniform and coming from multiple directions. I can locate the source, yet it takes some effort. . .  I close my eyes, meditate and let go of trying to locate the source. For me, it's not that hard. Then, I can drift into a space in which inside vs. outside starts to dissolve and I'm floating around in white noise. 

The next exercise is the most challenging. I close my eyes and meditate with some natural sounds outside of me. I like nature sounds. I avoid doing this with humans around. . . Notice how the sounds appear "outside" your head. This is a strong outside sensation and will be much more challenging than the headphones or white noise exercise. . . First, I go into as much outside resolution as possible - I go to the the limits of my outside locating ability. Bird chirps are my favorite. I try to determine exactly where outside the sound is. Exactly how far is it from me? How high up is the sound? What position is it? I try to determine the exact location - such that if I open my eyes I will be directly looking at that bird, in focus. . . I notice how I am imagining this outside space. There is a strong sensation that the outside space with sound is really there, yet it is being imagined as "outside" from "within". This imagination of outside is extremely convincing. . . One thing I discovered is that the auditory system is very good at locating in outside space. Our auditory system has gone through billions of years of evolution and the ability of the brain to locate outside sound is very important for the survival of the species. Overcoming this isn't easy, yet we can do it. We did it with the headphones and white noise, we can do it here. . . There is a shift in consciousness in which the "outside" location of the sounds can ease up. There are glimpses of the sounds appearing "inside" my head, such that there is no difference between inside or outside. Yet my mind will flip back to the sounds being outside. Or there will be a sensation that the boundaries of my head dissolve. Either way, the sensation is that the inside and outside sounds are sharing the same space. . . Then things get fun. Bird chirps start interacting with thoughts in the same space. . . it gets trippy even while sober. 

 

[Thewritersunion]

Realize everything takes time for you to register. Then notice thoughts are before.

[King Merk]

@Serotoninluv Thank you for the in-depth response. Thinking of dualism as more of a spectrum rather than binary is something I've never considered or tried before. Interesting. 

With regards to psychedelics, I've never focused on achieving non dual states. Although I've certainly experienced them, my next trip I'll set the intent of inquiring further into this sense of separation I feel and bring more awareness towards it.

Also thank you for those exercises. I'll certainly try them.

[King Merk]

6 hours ago, Thewritersunion said:

Realize everything takes time for you to register. Then notice thoughts are before.

I don't follow. Why does "everything" (by which I'm assuming you mean sensations?) take time to register? And how do thoughts occur before realizing? 

For example, if I touch a stove, I register the sensation of heat before I experience the thought of "this is hot". 

The only thing I can find that's before (or behind) sensation is awareness itself.