#1 priority for 2020: Self-care

[tsuki]

I do.

[Nahm]

25 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Is all judgement unnecessary?

Pretend I believe in unicorns, and you ask me if they’re necessary.

You wouldn’t. You’d say, “what unicorns” ?

[tsuki]

28 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Pretend I believe in unicorns, and you ask me if they’re necessary.

You wouldn’t. You’d say, “what unicorns” ?

Are you saying that judgement does not exist?

I understand that the labels such as "good" or "bad", or even "human", "monkey", "thought" are insubstantial (relative).
That what is, just is, prior to thought. Within that isness thoughts exist as well, prior to naming them, prior to thinking about thinking.

Is that what you are pointing towards?

Edited February 14, 2020 by tsuki

[Nahm]

@tsuki Nonexistence is a write off. It exists, because you’re creating it. I’m saying you don’t have to do such things which do not feel good to you. Also, if it doesn’t feel good to someone else, you can not be surprised by this, as it didn’t feel good to you either. 

[mandyjw]

How do you like them apples? 

[tsuki]

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I’m saying you don’t have to do such things which do not feel good to you.

@Nahm That sounds almost too good to be true, but I know that it is.
Taking ownership of self-created suffering is difficult. I mean, recognizing exactly how I'm doing it to myself so that I can stop.

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Also, if it doesn’t feel good to someone else, you can not be surprised by this, as it didn’t feel good to you either. 

Sometimes, when I'm angry, I know that continuing will bring more negativity, but in the moment I feel that something is very important. It usually happens when I'm dependent on external circumstances and I'm deprived of something I need, or feel entitled to. I am not allowing myself to express my anger because it's threatening to people around me. I think that I will be ridiculed, or that I will have to escalate to be heard and I don't want that. I've been holding back for years, avoiding it until it periodically blows up in someone's face.

Am I mistakenly assuming that I'm dependent on external circumstances? Is it the thing that I ought to stop doing?

Edited February 14, 2020 by tsuki

[Nahm]

41 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Nahm That sounds almost too good to be true, but I know that it is.

I know you know! You don’t believe that, you don’t think that, you know that...and I know you know that!  

It does sound too good to believe, too good to be possible....but love is the truth. 

Not any thought. 

Love is the truth. 

This Love is you. 

41 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Taking ownership of self-created suffering is difficult. I mean, recognizing exactly how I'm doing it to myself so that I can stop.

Sometimes, when I'm angry, I know that continuing will bring more negativity, but in the moment I feel that something is very important. It usually happens when I'm dependent on external circumstances and I'm deprived of something I need, or feel entitled to. I am not allowing myself to express my anger because it's threatening to people around me. I think that I will be ridiculed, or that I will have to escalate to be heard and I don't want that. I've been holding back for years, avoiding it until it periodically blows up in someone's face.

Am I mistakenly assuming that I'm dependent on external circumstances? Is it the thing that I ought to stop doing?

Anger is not negative! That is judging. It’s love. Why does it feel so terrible to not love? 

Because you are love. Because love is the truth. 

When angry....”how does this feel, good, or not good”.

Not good.

What am I holding judgment against....me...other...or the world?

Where do I find this judgement?  In my thought, my perspective. 

Why doesn’t it feel good? Because judging = separation...me, and other.

Why doesn’t that feel good? Because it’s not true. 

How does this relate to me? You’re the truth. The truth is love. You are love. 

Why doesn’t that feel good?

Because it’s not true, and I know this. 

 

[Nahm]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Am I mistakenly assuming that I'm dependent on external circumstances? Is it the thing that I ought to stop doing?

Think in terms of transition. Is my 8 year old daughter dependent on external circumstances? Hell ya she is. She ain’t getting an income, heat, electricity, food, etc any time soon. Why is this not a problem for me? Love. 

She’ll grow up though. She’ll become independent. She’ll move out. Likely, she’ll have kids, and they will be dependent on her. 

How beautiful is this? Do you see?

How beautiful, are you !!!

 

[tsuki]

This post is off the rails of our conversation, but I just had a hilarious insight and I want to share it.
Hentai is the vegetarianism of masturbation.

[tsuki]

On 14.02.2020 at 4:40 PM, Nahm said:

Anger is not negative! That is judging. It’s love.

@Nahm I have a question regarding how you understand judgement. This may be elementary, but it's important to me.
Do you understand judgement as:

1. any positive description (as in: "this is a human", "this is a monkey", "this is a thought" etc),
2. a preference (as in: "I would rather have  a scoop of ice cream than of dirt", "I would rather be clothed than naked right now", etc),
3. a polarity with one-sided attachment (as in: "Killing people is wrong", "Anger is bad", "You shall not steal", "I must be rich", etc).

In my experience, judgement is the whole spectrum of the above. I'm assuming that you mean the option number 3.

I'm open to acknowledge that the following is a rationalization: I'm treating anger as a negative emotion because I've been taught that expressing it crosses people's boundaries. I understand that I'm angry when my boundaries are being broken and I should do something about it (express the anger), but for the time being I think that I have so much anger in my reservoir that my reactions are disproportionate. I also think that I'm overly sensitive to external manipulation of my inner world, when someone else lectures me on what is right without my explicit request (this does not apply to you). This goes back to my family situation and the way I've been raised. Even though I love my parents and they are giving me space now, I believe that they are myopic and they've been forcing their limited perspective onto me for years. I acknowledge the possibility of their influence on my growth, by being a "pressure cooker", but I also acknowledge that I'm protecting myself from realizing the depth of their myopia and the damage they've done (unknowingly).

Additionally, my wife has symmetric wounds. She witnessed her parents' fights ever since she was three until it culminated in a nasty divorce when she was thirteen. She was emotionally used by her mother as a crutch, to shoulder the emotional burdens of being wife of an adult child of an alcoholic. She's depressed now (very common in such situations), taking SSRI, and struggling with co-dependence. She is hypersensitive to my mood (like she was in her childhood) and deems me as "controlling". I have no space to express my anger explicitly, in the moment, because she is threatened, drops her boundaries, and submits. She feels angry because of that and it turns into guilt, shame and resentment. We had many anger resonances because of that, where we would become periodically mad at each other for trivial reasons. Thanks to therapy and her medication she slowly starts to learn to cope with anger in other ways than disregarding it (in herself and in reaction to its expressions in others).

So, I don't believe that anger is absolutely evil, as in option number three. I acknowledge its importance, but I think that I need to manage and vent it in dosages until we heal as a couple. I just hope that I'm not pushing myself too hard and I will not pay too great of a price in terms of my physical health. It's getting better though. Crying helps a lot.

Edited February 17, 2020 by tsuki

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Nahm I have a question regarding how you understand judgement. This may be elementary, but it's important to me.
Do you understand judgement as:

1. any positive description (as in: "this is a human", "this is a monkey", "this is a thought" etc),

“Positive” is in feeling actually, rather than in the thought ‘ description. It the perspective or thought feels Good, it is Good. Seeing anything as good feeling, is recognition of “what is”, of our infinite Being. 

Quote

1. a preference (as in: "I would rather have  a scoop of ice cream than of dirt", "I would rather be clothed than naked right now", etc),

Preference is not judgement, it is creation. It is literally how your story unfolds, and how the entire human story unfolds. Right under our noses, we are all creators in this together, and all The One, dreaming within Itself. And again, it is Good. 

Quote

1. a polarity with one-sided attachment (as in: "Killing people is wrong", "Anger is bad", "You shall not steal", "I must be rich", etc).

Yes, that “you” is the judgement / separation component. Flip the script.... Loving people is Good, understanding anger is Love, is Good, earning one’s way honestly, is Good, Happiness free of attachment to things or money, is Good. 

This is also described as recognizing the resistant feeling of a thought, spotting the judgement or falsity, and choosing the better feeling thought, the one that feels good to you. Btw, fill a dream board with these thoughts, and your reality does indeed become this. It is too Good to believe, one must experience this directly. The very same reality which will unfold as such, is what is saying this to you now (“me”)

Quote

In my experience, judgement is the whole spectrum of the above. I'm assuming that you mean the option number 3.

Right, you got where I’m coming from there. It’s all about the relationship between feeling & thought. After some time, some beliefs are kicked up, some purification transpires....after some time, there’s only positive / good feeling thoughts arising. You’ll reach a point where you literally have to remember the mental situation one can be in, because witnessing the choosing of a thought which does not feel good, becomes an experience to you (when you see someone do this) that seem very, obvious. Like seeing someone cutting their own finger off, it leaves you baffled...like...why the heck are you doing that right now? The answer, is they are not consciously present right now, they’re “in” a thought story, trying to resolve beliefs about themself, and the world. But they don’t need to. 

Quote

I'm open to acknowledge that the following is a rationalization: I'm treating anger as a negative emotion because I've been taught that expressing it crosses people's boundaries.

I understand that I'm angry when my boundaries are being broken and I should do something about it (express the anger), but for the time being I think that I have so much anger in my reservoir that my reactions are disproportionate. I also think that I'm overly sensitive to external manipulation of my inner world, when someone else lectures me on what is right without my explicit request (this does not apply to you). This goes back to my family situation and the way I've been raised. Even though I love my parents and they are giving me space now, I believe that they are myopic and they've been forcing their limited perspective onto me for years. I acknowledge the possibility of their influence on my growth, by being a "pressure cooker", but I also acknowledge that I'm protecting myself from realizing the depth of their myopia and the damage they've done (unknowingly).

Back then, that was actually happening so to speak, and to intervene was present Now with that situation. 

Now, as it’s just a thought, that thought, is judge mental of them for their ignorance. 

Might seem like it feels bad now, because of things which transpired then. But now is just that, now. A squeaky clean fresh start, always, perpetual spontaneous now, always free. 

If you are “bringing” the baggage of the past into this pure potential now...it’s not going to feel good. 

Forgive. 

Imo, that is the most powerful word in our language. 

Forgive them for their ignorance. “They know not what they do”. It is precisely in that sentiment that Jesus, even hanging on the cross, was in the perfect peace of God. Remember, just prior to that, he thought God forgot about him - but he realized he had forgot about God. In forgiving them, he loved them, and forgave them of ignorance. You are innocent....and they are too. 

The body is infinite intelligence. It will purify itself. 

Quote

Additionally, my wife has symmetric wounds. She witnessed her parents' fights ever since she was three until it culminated in a nasty divorce when she was thirteen. She was emotionally used by her mother as a crutch, to shoulder the emotional burdens of being wife of an adult child of an alcoholic. She's depressed now (very common in such situations), taking SSRI, and struggling with co-dependence. She is hypersensitive to my mood (like she was in her childhood) and deems me as "controlling". I have no space to express my anger explicitly, in the moment, because she is threatened, drops her boundaries, and submits. She feels angry because of that and it turns into guilt, shame and resentment. We had many anger resonances because of that, where we would become periodically mad at each other for trivial reasons. Thanks to therapy and her medication she slowly starts to learn to cope with anger in other ways than disregarding it (in herself and in reaction to its expressions in others).

So, I don't believe that anger is absolutely evil, as in option number three. I acknowledge its importance, but I think that I need to manage and vent it in dosages until we heal as a couple. I just hope that I'm not pushing myself too hard and I will not pay too great of a price in terms of my physical health. It's getting better though. Crying helps a lot.

When I think “there even is evil to begin with”, I am judging myself, someone else, or “the world” / reality. It doesn’t feel Good, because the Truth is I Am That Goodness. It is me. Judgement, is simply me denying myself (as “other”, or “reality”).

Crying is Golden in my book!  Who would’ve ever guessed? Lol   

Rather than considering if anger is “evil”...question “do I even believe in evil?”

This helps us see that we are actually, judging our self. Anger, is, in the most absolute literal sense, God. 

It sounds like there’s a lot of expressing & healing transpiring in the relationship, and that is wonderful to hear. There is also much to be said for me healing...her healing...and sharing the love which shines through in healing....with each other. 

My wife and I have a “rule” which sounds odd at first....we never, ever, apologize to each other. We realized there were these little cycles, of letting the other one have it, and later realizing “it was just my own shit going on there”. When you take away the ability to apologize later, things start clicking now. Overtime...this sort of “forces” one, to forgive one’s self, of what keeps “coming up”, and “coming out”, as anger. 

The aim is perfect clarity, that it never has anything to do with the spouse, only one’s self. 

Specifically...ones right now relationship....experience....of: thought, feeling, & source.

[tsuki]

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

“Positive” is in feeling actually, rather than in the thought ‘ description. It the perspective or thought feels Good, it is Good. Seeing anything as good feeling, is recognition of “what is”, of our infinite Being. 

I understand what you mean. "Positive" in the conventional meaning is indeed a feeling. 

By "positive description" I meant a description that adds concreteness to the subject. 
For example, this is a progression of positive descriptions (concretizations) in the sense of the word that I intended:

1.  
2. This.
3. This is a human.
4. This is a human with one arm and two legs.
5. He is a human with one arm and two legs.
6. Joshua has one arm and two legs.
7. Joshua is a Saudi Arabian carpenter. He lost his arm in an accident.

Each of the above descriptions is progressively more "positive" in the sense that it further constrains the imagination and contains the previous sentences. It is a "positive" description as opposed to "negative" description which is neti-neti (not this, not that). In my book, that is a judgement of silence and the most subtle of the three types that I presented in the original progression:

On 17.02.2020 at 9:39 AM, tsuki said:

1. any positive description (as in: "this is a human", "this is a monkey", "this is a thought" etc),
2. a preference (as in: "I would rather have  a scoop of ice cream than of dirt", "I would rather be clothed than naked right now", etc),
3. a polarity with one-sided attachment (as in: "Killing people is wrong", "Anger is bad", "You shall not steal", "I must be rich", etc).

I classify concretization ("positive" description) as judgement because it creates meaning by constraining imagination.

________________________________

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

Preference is not judgement, it is creation. It is literally how your story unfolds, and how the entire human story unfolds. Right under our noses, we are all creators in this together, and all The One, dreaming within Itself. And again, it is Good. 

I understand that and agree. The mind, understood as heart~>intellect pair is directed. The flow of energy is from heart to intellect. This energy, the "~>", that flows between the two is "feeling". Through intellect, feeling bursts into thoughts that are "flavored" in various ways. Some of them are judgmental in your sense of the word.

Preferences in this context are the seeds of feelings that reside in our hearts. They are what gives us our individuality, as Love pours through each of us. By aligning our thoughts we have the opportunity to purify our minds of preferences that make us miserable. It really sounds like Karma Yoga to me.

I classify preferences as judgement because they constrain Love in its purest form to our specific, individual, expressions of it. In essence, we are self-aware prisms of Love. That is Good.

________________________________

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

Yes, that “you” is the judgement / separation component. Flip the script.... Loving people is Good, understanding anger is Love, is Good, earning one’s way honestly, is Good, Happiness free of attachment to things or money, is Good. 

This is also described as recognizing the resistant feeling of a thought, spotting the judgement or falsity, and choosing the better feeling thought, the one that feels good to you.

I recognize this to be similar to what Byron Katie is teaching. I always found her style to be confusing, perhaps because I tend to be focused intellectually. Are there any practices to increase my awareness of feelings? Meditation perhaps?

Throughout the day I'm very mindful to be present to my body and heart. Unfortunately, I have difficulties recognizing uncomfortable feelings and expressing them in terms of thoughts, making them a conscious part of experience. I also have difficulties with consistency of practices - I tend to leave them when I feel like I don't need them. Inevitably, things go downhill and I pick myself up from there.

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

Btw, fill a dream board with these thoughts, and your reality does indeed become this. It is too Good to believe, one must experience this directly. The very same reality which will unfold as such, is what is saying this to you now (“me”)

I would absolutely love to do that. The problem is that I don't know what I want other than peace for the moment.
My dreams are so wild that I don't even want to say them out loud.

________________________________

I will address the rest of your reply later today. Thank you for your effort @Nahm.

Edited February 18, 2020 by tsuki

[tsuki]

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

Back then, that was actually happening so to speak, and to intervene was present Now with that situation. 

Now, as it’s just a thought, that thought, is judge mental of them for their ignorance. 

Might seem like it feels bad now, because of things which transpired then. But now is just that, now. A squeaky clean fresh start, always, perpetual spontaneous now, always free. 

If you are “bringing” the baggage of the past into this pure potential now...it’s not going to feel good. 

Forgive. 

I understand and I choose to forgive when I notice that judgement. They are not guilty of not knowing any better. They did the best they could.

However, I think that saying that "now is a squeaky clean fresh start" is an oversiplification. The mind has its momentum, the things we chose to let go of tend to come back. Letting go is the freedom of now, its cleanness, but it's the conscious choice to let go that disarms this momentum. I choose to let go whenever I see the opportunity. I was talking about the roots of this momentum, and not judging myself for being damaged somehow.

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

Imo, that is the most powerful word in our language. 

Forgive them for their ignorance. “They know not what they do”. It is precisely in that sentiment that Jesus, even hanging on the cross, was in the perfect peace of God. Remember, just prior to that, he thought God forgot about him - but he realized he had forgot about God. In forgiving them, he loved them, and forgave them of ignorance. You are innocent....and they are too. 

The body is infinite intelligence. It will purify itself. 

Completely, 100% agree. Even the previous section of my response does. Forgiveness is the action that heals.

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

Rather than considering if anger is “evil”...question “do I even believe in evil?”

No, I don't. Not in the conventional sense.
People commit acts of (what is conventionally called) evil out of hurt and desperation. Sometimes out of ignorance, not knowing any better. All "evil" is self-inflicted harm. I do believe that anger is a short-term solution that kicks me in the ass in long-term. I do not know when it is appropriate to express it, so I'm bottling it up and arranging my circumstances to avoid it.

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

This helps us see that we are actually, judging our self. Anger, is, in the most absolute literal sense, God. 

This flew right over my head. Please write some more about this.

Let's say I'm getting frustrated because I'm not getting enough sex from my wife. I feel unwanted, abandoned and overlooked. I blame myself for causing it by being controlling and demanding, not giving my wife space to feel safe. She's overworked and can't relax. My wounded inner child trusts me for some time and lets me take care of my needs, but if I don't, it takes the steering wheel and throws a tantrum. This tantrum is purely destructive because my wife, to get aroused, needs a mature man to feel safe with and not a three year old child to take care of.

How does self-judgement come into this if these statements are factual (judgement type 1 as opposed to type 3)? How do I flip the script?

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

My wife and I have a “rule” which sounds odd at first....we never, ever, apologize to each other. We realized there were these little cycles, of letting the other one have it, and later realizing “it was just my own shit going on there”. When you take away the ability to apologize later, things start clicking now. Overtime...this sort of “forces” one, to forgive one’s self, of what keeps “coming up”, and “coming out”, as anger. 

That is an awesome practice. I don't know whether I would be able to explain it to my wife. She would perceive this explanation as me trying to control her.

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

The aim is perfect clarity, that it never has anything to do with the spouse, only one’s self. 

Specifically...ones right now relationship....experience....of: thought, feeling, & source.

Gosh, I wish that were possible. That would be so awesome.

[Nahm]

59 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I wish that were possible

Are you seeing that one thought arises at a time. Period. No exception, ever, for any person, ever  ?  Or does it seem to you that statement is not true?

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

I don't know whether I would be able to explain it to my wife. She would perceive this explanation as me trying to control her.

Just let her read what I wrote. Let her react to it, rather than assuming you know how she’ll see it. She might see that this means when you get angry at her, and later feel bad for it, rather than feeling better by apologizing, you are sort of by default positioned to inspect how & why you got angry, and how & why you ‘took it out on her’. What becomes very clear, very quickly, is that it had nothing to do with her. 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

This flew right over my head. Please write some more about this.

Let's say I'm getting frustrated because I'm not getting enough sex from my wife. I feel unwanted, abandoned and overlooked. I blame myself for causing it by being controlling and demanding, not giving my wife space to feel safe. She's overworked and can't relax. My wounded inner child trusts me for some time and lets me take care of my needs, but if I don't, it takes the steering wheel and throws a tantrum. This tantrum is purely destructive because my wife, to get aroused, needs a mature man to feel safe with and not a three year old child to take care of.

How does self-judgement come into this if these statements are factual (judgement type 1 as opposed to type 3)? How do I flip the script?

The statement “Anger is also God / Self” is a powerful one imo. This is because it points directly to the fact that love & anger are directly related, not separate as might be assumed. Through the lens of “then how are they the same”...one must look at themself...how they “link together” if you will, is that the entirety is only going on in your thought & feeling relationship. It takes everyone else out of the picture, past, and present (wife)...this leaves you inspecting your thoughts & feeling, to begin seeing the anger arises in your perspective, your interpretation. Continued, the root when seen, is judgement of self and or other. This judgement of self & other might be, and likely is, related to the past. But in “anger is God too”, the past is viewed only from the present. This perspective takes away the facet or “reliving of the past”, and addresses the NOW of it. This however, goes back to the first question, if you are able to see that we experience only one thought at a time. If you can see that, then you can begin to see that the feeling, has only to do with the one thought right now. That the one arising thought feels the way it does, because of the perspective about the past, not because of the past. (Getting down to this actuality is very easy when talking, and very difficult in this typing / delayed form of communication btw.) In that vein, if a thought about the past comes up, notice it is not the past, it is a thought about the past. 

What I see going on here, is rather than acknowledging the simple fact that we experience one thought at a time, and how that one thought feels....thoughts are being believed, such as the story of the inner wounded child. I totally get that perspective, and I appreciate it. But, that inner child is being used as a scapegoat to some extent. 

Put boldly for the sake of communication through text... you said “it takes the wheel and throws a tantrum”....which is a very different perspective that “I keep throwing tantrums”. In that confusion, then, as you have already fragmented yourself, you then judge yourself, via judging “what the inner child did”. Then, you’re trying to understand you wife’s needs, but you’re doing so holding that “third party”, the “wounded inner child” in place. 

So, what’s going on, to realize the clarity....only has to do with you...awareness. One arising thought at a time. And one arising feeling at a time.  When you add your wife, now there’s confusion. When you add the third party, the “inner child” (in the way you have communicated this here)...then you add another layer of confusion. 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

How does self-judgement come into this if these statements are factual (judgement type 1 as opposed to type 3)? How do I flip the script?

If you remove the wife, and the inner child from the scenario.....all that remains is you, thinking a thought which doesn’t feel good. Without the wife and inner child reference, all that would remain would be you examining why your thought didn’t feel good, and choosing a better feeling thought. Through choosing the better feeling thought, you feel better. The understanding and clarity, as you pointed out, arise via the feeling itself. 

[Nahm]

This is kind of a hunch, but I suspect, that you have an underlying belief, or really, an expectation, that first someone else must think like you do....then they can communicate with you. This is often referred to (if you want to google and read about it)....as “needing to be understood”. That is the single biggest relationship killer there is, because of it’s underlying falsity. And speaking only on your behalf, it’s so taxing. It’s like carrying 100 lbs of armor with you, everywhere you go. Mentally, this is exhausting, because rather than just experiencing the one thought at a time simplicity of living, a whole construct “must” be employed, just for anyone to talk with you. It’s heavy suffering, indicative of a history of suppressing, rather than releasing. 

[tsuki]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Are you seeing that one thought arises at a time. Period. No exception, ever, for any person, ever  ?  Or does it seem to you that statement is not true?

When I'm writing this text, deliberately, I'm focusing on one word-chunk at a time. The general outline of the sentence and the intention is presented instantaneously and is linearized then, squeezed through, the thought medium. I focus on each word and observe its sincerity, how well it conveys my intent.

However, when I'm idling, occupied with something else, the idle chatter is a mush. I am perfectly capable of repeating the Jesus prayer and breathing consciously while listening in a conversation. If I dedicate the time to pray, I am able to think that prayer, breathe consciously and think about the process of the prayer the same time. If I'm unfocused during the prayer, I can also think about something completely different. I can't do that when speaking out loud though, but I can do that while reading.

My relationship with thoughts is such that they arise on their own accord and their quality is dependent on how I feel that day. Caffeine, lack of sleep my emotional state, all influence it. I do not intervene in the thought stream too often, unless I see that it is self-destructive. Making my thoughts external, speaking them, is a deliberate choice.

35 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Just let her read what I wrote. Let her react to it, rather than assuming you know how she’ll see it.

She can't speak English, I would have to translate it for her.

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

She might see that this means when you get angry at her, and later feel bad for it, rather than feeling better by apologizing, you are sort of by default positioned to inspect how & why you got angry, and how & why you ‘took it out on her’. What becomes very clear, very quickly, is that it had nothing to do with her. 

I understand the intent and agree. I think it's wonderful.

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The statement “Anger is also God / Self” is a powerful one imo. This is because it points directly to the fact that love & anger are directly related, not separate as might be assumed. Through the lens of “then how are they the same”...one must look at themself...how they “link together” if you will, is that the entirety is only going on in your thought & feeling relationship. It takes everyone else out of the picture, past, and present (wife)...this leaves you inspecting your thoughts & feeling, to begin seeing the anger arises in your perspective, your interpretation. Continued, the root when seen, is judgement of self and or other.

This is true, I have observed this in myself.

40 minutes ago, Nahm said:

This judgement of self & other might be, and likely is, related to the past.

This part is tricky for me. The "wounded child" story comes from our couple's therapist and it definitely relates to the past.
However, for me, experientially, it is directed from the present moment towards the future, as in: "I can't keep living like this", "it's too much!" or "if we keep going in this direction, we're gonna crash", etc. I see that these two are connected because the root of this anger is fear and it was instilled in the past. I/the wounded child was abandoned emotionally and this part of me lives in fear and protects itself by swallowing all of the inner space when threatened. When it does, there is no detachment from feelings or thoughts like it is right now.

46 minutes ago, Nahm said:

But in “anger is God too”, the past is viewed only from the present. This perspective takes away the facet or “reliving of the past”, and addresses the NOW of it.

I can relate to the statement "the past is viewed only form the present". 

However, I must clarify something. When I'm angry, I'm not consciously re-living the past and comparing the present to it. Let's say that I'm getting home from work and my wife has a day off. I'm walking through the door, going to the kitchen to make my dinner and I see that the kitchen is a mess. I'm not thinking "OH MY GOD, she's made such a mess and when I made mess when I was little, I was yelled at" (or something). There's just that: anger. The burning feeling in my gut that I can either swallow and clean the kitchen myself, or go ask my wife to clean her mess and probably hear her passive aggression in return. Yes, I am anticipating her passive aggression and bringing the past into the now, but this anticipation is accurate. She does not like to be reminded of her messiness (which is not my intention btw.).

 

I need to pause for now, I will address the rest of your post later on. Thank you for your time.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

The burning feeling in my gut that I can either swallow and clean the kitchen myself, or go ask my wife to clean her mess and probably hear her passive aggression in return.

Swallow what?

 

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

Swallow what?

Ignore the anger and move on, clean the kitchen myself.

I'm sorry but I will have to hold off for now. I just returned from our couple's therapy session and announced to the therapist that I will seek a different one. I could not get past the fact that he was my wife's therapist and judged him to be biased. I viewed it as a 2 vs 1 situation where 90% of the problems in my marriage is on me. He kept alternating between "respecting my decision" and hammering the point that I'm responsible for the problems, that he is wholly objective and that I will reject all other therapists because I'm a narcissist. He said that I have basically zero self awareness that I'm slowly learning how to feel anything and that I'm a ticking bomb that is waiting to explode.

[Nahm]

@tsuki Sorry to hear that man. I had some thoughts on a couple other things in your response, but if and when the time is right HMU. Love & healing to you brother, I hope there’s clarity and relief for both of you asap.

[DrewNows]

@tsuki I’ve been observing judgement vs discernment a lot lately.

 

Heres story that reminded me of the drama you had with your (old?) boss

 

Last week I met with a client for my dog sitting business who turned out to be a huge shadow of mine, this woman appeared to be very sweet and attractive yet seemed to stand for everything i do not personally support, from her personality and beliefs to her occupation. I had made the mistake of “staying professional” by not choosing to share any disagreeable thoughts that arose, I remained compliant/objective and by the end had unknowingly suppressed some emotions, I liked her. Naturally the meet and greet lasted much longer than anticipated and she didn’t seem to want me to leave, probably loved having me as a mirror. However she was my shadow and I demonstrated  “true class” ?‍♂️ a real dick move, by leaving so very indirectly/thoughtlessly (equatable to cutting someone off in the bar imo) left her no choice but to put me below even the standard of being a friend. I guess I’m a schizo and never knew what that is. The interaction really caught me off guard, my behaviors clearly motivated by fear, generated a lot of friction in the end because I push away what I fear. I began taking care of her dog until one mistake, some misunderstandings and miscommunication then finally a disagreement, all on the first day of watching after her dog. Before I knew it I was dealing with a crazy bitch looking to rip into whatever boundaries of mine she could find. The end was bitter/sad, I lost control and made a stupid desperate attempt to control/manipulate her with mind games, karma was a bitch and her pain/suffering was my own. This was only a little funny after the fact, but definitely sad as I realize how love or loa tends to manifest itself when least expected, this woman had been right there, disguised as a shadow and I can’t help but think it sure would have been nice to have a valentine this year