Open Discussion: Is The Everyday Use Of "i" A Distraction From Enlightenment?

[There_is_no_Chris]

Hello. 

This post is about the use of "I" in everyday language. One of the most challenging things I have experienced while trying to maintain awareness during my day to day life is to stop referring to myself as "I", or "me", or "myself". In fact, it's so challenging that I have used it 4 times already to refer to the illusory "self" who is typing these words in this very post.

 One thing that Leo teaches in his videos is that this "self" is an illusion. My question for you is this: Is stopping all use of the word "I" inside of the internal narrative part of what it takes to become enlightened? How do you confront the ego when it reflexively uses "I"? I don't know how many of my thoughts are about "self" but my guess would be that about 80-90% of them are predicated on the belief that there is an "I" or "self" involved. I am very interested to hear what others on this forum have to say on this topic. Also, if there is some rule I am breaking or oversight on my part then I apologize. This is my first time posting here.

[Saarah]

@There_is_no_Chris It's probably more just a by-product than an obstruction, once you've realised the fundamental truth of it all and the gears have shifted, that's when you may find it easier to stop saying I. The behaviour becomes a result of the internal mechanics and does not have a backwards link to the mechanics, once the mechanics change only then the behaviour is changed including your thoughts that relate to you as a self. 

I think by not saying I or me, it can be seen as a way of thinking your way into it when really the results come when you stop thinking about what it is and instead just focus on feeling and experiencing 

 

[Mal]

@There_is_no_Chris

Hi,

Who is the one "stopping"the use of "I"?

There is a self, there is just no organising principle. The "I"just gets bigger! If you want to have an enlightenment experience observe the view you're clinging to.  This is about getting more flexibility over thought and allowing new information in rather than being in a state of "no self".  You will always have a self, it's just what self is it? The ego self with no flexibility and just a stream of thought? Or later if you work at it the "Witness Self" which is the observer who doesn't cling, therefore does not evaluate? The Witness transcends and includes the ego. 

How about the "Unified Self?" The Bodhisattva who is less identified as a human being but more of a cosmic consciousness?  The Unified Self transcends and includes the Witness and the ego. It's all there, at our disposal.

We cannot skip stages.  Try it. See what happens when you disown your identity.  All you will do is cement a dissociation from your body mind. It can give you a quickie experience but it won't last.  Development is essential for enlightenment to happen healthily.

This is about integration rather than deconstruction. 

I hope this clarifies things a bit better. 

Mal

Edited June 10, 2016 by Mal

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, There_is_no_Chris said:

Hello. 

This post is about the use of "I" in everyday language. One of the most challenging things I have experienced while trying to maintain awareness during my day to day life is to stop referring to myself as "I", or "me", or "myself". In fact, it's so challenging that I have used it 4 times already to refer to the illusory "self" who is typing these words in this very post.

 One thing that Leo teaches in his videos is that this "self" is an illusion. My question for you is this: Is stopping all use of the word "I" inside of the internal narrative part of what it takes to become enlightened? How do you confront the ego when it reflexively uses "I"? I don't know how many of my thoughts are about "self" but my guess would be that about 80-90% of them are predicated on the belief that there is an "I" or "self" involved. I am very interested to hear what others on this forum have to say on this topic. Also, if there is some rule I am breaking or oversight on my part then I apologize. This is my first time posting here.

I doubt it. Enlightened people still use I to refer to themselves. I would moreso think it has to do with the identification you have with the "I" than using it is colloquial language.

[99th_monkey]

yeah its good to be mindful of it because identity usually comes with it. but "I" is a concept integrated into how we verbally communicate.  

[Raquel]

"Know this.

When you say  "I", 

The true meaning of "I" is joy,

It is happiness, it is life,

And it's also the witnessing of life!"

Mooji 

Hope this simple words help giving you a new meaning to the word I..

[There_is_no_Chris]

So then saying "I" is ok, but believing the monkey chatter equates to "I" is wrong? How does one view the body after enlightenment? Is it a self in its own right or is such a distinction missing the point? I'm trying to quiet the thoughts and experience the now, but still feel like I'm fundamentally separate from my environment. Are there any special meditation techniques that will demonstrate to this ape-mind that the belief in a world full of separate "I's" is false? I can intellectually grasp the cosmic consciousness and sometimes I feel like I'm brushing against it with my awareness, but that's it so far. I'm humbled by your responses, thank you

[Raquel]

"Monkey chatter" is your mind, "I" is the experience of awareness. It's different things.

The problem I see now is that you are using your mind too much..thinking too much about concepts.. if you don't hold on to anything at all for a second you will feel the presence of "I". 

People sometimes hold onto too many concepts, techniques, theories etc to reach enlightenment.. which makes the mind take control even more, confusing experiences.. 

Don't hold to anything at all, let everything pass through like you are witnessing from a outside perspective.. even what others tell you about enlightenment

[There_is_no_Chris]

@Raquel It's really hard.

[Mal]

@There_is_no_Chris

Here is a quick pointer.  Very easy.

Forget about "I" for a moment.

Think about the life force sustaining your body.  Draw your attention to that life force for a minute.  Focus on the life force.  

Remember to forget about "I".

When you have become the life force you are, now look at your thoughts and feelings from the position of the life force.  

Notice you are not the same as your thoughts and feelings.

Mal

 

[Ayla]

Language is always going to be "dual". "I" is just a word. When you look up a word in the dictionary with awareness, you will understand that "I" is just a word that is explained by other words. So in that sense, no, "I" isn't a hindrance.

Nothing is. 

You just need to look into your direct experience and see if you can find that which you currently call "I". Realize that it is only a concept. Like Santa or Unicorn, that is being imposed onto your perception through mental patterns and physical sensations. 

Had this issue a few months ago. It is yet another trap "you" chose you believe in, in order to avoid the uncomfortable dissolution of the construction of your life as an "I", entity, unit, whatever you want to call it. 

 

 

 

[Pelin]

This just reminded me of Arya from game of thrones, who kept staying I am nobody for the last two seasons, referring to herself as 'a girl' and then returning to her family and her values and her self more powerful than ever. Consciously refraining from I can result in feeding it inside.

[Telepresent]

22 hours ago, There_is_no_Chris said:

It's really hard.

I think there's a problem people come across, which is effectively trying to do everything at once.  Trying to take one giant leap, when you may need many small steps.  So, in this case, I see people who hear about this idea that the 'real "I"' is awareness, and they try to break straight through into that.  Problem with doing that is that you have a very strongly reinforced pre-concept about what "I" is, and so you may be trying to bring that with you... trying to make the two fit together.  Certainly I have spent a lot of time doing that.

Perhaps another approach is to spend some time just gently questioning what exactly you think "I" is, right now.  Don't worry about outcomes, or enlightenment, or anything like that: just pay attention to what is happening every time you think "I".  Something like:

"I need to go to the shops".  Ok, what just happened?  There was a thought, the thought referred to some kind of concept or idea of a central being, attached to that thought, called "I".   It also stated that "I" needs to do something.  So what is the "I" concept to which it refers?  Do I actually know for certain?  If not, how might I begin working it out?  What do I believe I am, and what evidence for that belief is there?  Is there any evidence which contradicts it?  Etc.

If it sounds like a slow process, that's because it is.  It's not going to result in a sudden flash of realisation.  But, like the turtle, slow and steady wins the race, and if you keep interrogating yourself and your "I" thoughts/understandings, you'll slowly come to a much, much clearer understanding of what you (and other people) mean when they say "I", and what it might mean in different contexts.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Telepresent

[abrakamowse]

On 6/10/2016 at 6:21 PM, Emerald Wilkins said:

I doubt it. Enlightened people still use I to refer to themselves. I would moreso think it has to do with the identification you have with the "I" than using it is colloquial language.

Some of them says it is wrong to say "we" because we only have access to the "I"

Interesting concept. Anyway, the problem is the concept. The real Tao is the one that cannot be named.