Enlightenment Work Can Be A Bit Tiresome

[Heart of Space]

It feels like I'm on a mission to perform heart surgery on a elephant with a toothpick, and the elephant is in an undisclosed room in a pitch black building that happens to e the biggest building in the world.  I've been on this mission for a solid 2 years now and I have nothing lol. Enlightened people make it sound like it's so obvious and easy I'm probably just missing something.   Anyone have thoughts about this, or feel similar(Question mark)  (my question mark button is broke)     

Edited June 10, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Zephyr]

I don't do much enlightment work but I listened to some spiritual teachers on YouTube. One thing I learned is that you are already enlightened since the beginning. You were enlightened all these time before you even began 'enlightment' work. The thing is that you believe that 'you' are not. Then you try to chase enlightenment  believing that enlightenment is out there not here. It's in the future not the present. Still even when you believe that you are already enlightened and enlightment is here in the present it doesn't make you enlightened. It's still going to be a belief/concept not the 'enlightenment' itself.

Still a concept, but your concept I would assume from looking at your post is giving you a hard time. 

 

[ChimpBrain]

I'm starting to view it about like playing the lottery. Sure, if you win the payoff is huge. But what are the odds? And would that money (in our case time) be better spent on other productive endeavors?

[Mal]

5 minutes ago, ChimpBrain said:

I'm starting to view it about like playing the lottery. Sure, if you win the payoff is huge. But what are the odds? And would that money (in our case time) be better spent on other productive endeavors?

For what it's worth I have very little interest in self-realization.  I'm passionate about development however, and the by-product of that will be a transcendance. 

I know it's been a sticky topic for you lately, and I agree with you.  Development is not at odds with enlightenment at all. 

Mal

[ChimpBrain]

32 minutes ago, Mal said:

For what it's worth I have very little interest in self-realization.  I'm passionate about development however, and the by-product of that will be a transcendance. 

I know it's been a sticky topic for you lately, and I agree with you.  Development is not at odds with enlightenment at all. 

Mal

It's not that I think self development is at odds with enlightenment, just that enlightenment appears to be the last step in self development and it seems like a lot of people are trying to jump straight to the last step without doing the necessary lead-up. Maybe everyone here is just that much further ahead of me in their development and I'm in denial. I know a lot of members are because when I read their posts the language is so vague and new-agey it's almost literally meaningless to me. But a lot aren't, and when I see them already chasing the enlightenment dragon it's disappointing.

Leo presents enlightenment in such a sexy way that after watching a few of his videos on it, it's easy to think you've found the answer to all life's problems and now all you have to do is meditate until you reach this mythical state. I'm in no way faulting Leo, he's speaking from his heart, but he's so much further along the path than most of us and is actually in a state where it's appropriate to be striving to attain this goal. Also to be fair, in his "What to do next" video he specifically talks about how you really need to get all aspects of your life in order before you attempt enlightenment.

Your right, it has been a sticky topic for me lately. And I await a minimum of 3 posts below telling me how all of this is just my ego fighting against the beauty and awe that is enlightenment

[vizual]

@Heart of Space  What are you running away from in life? What are you scared of? Where do you keep grasping at?

If you are at it for 2 years and have nothing there probably is something you are desperately trying to not see, to not be fully honest.

Edited June 10, 2016 by vizual

[Corte]

Enlightenment? Tired? Something isn't right here! 

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, vizual said:

@Heart of Space  What are you running away from in life? What are you scared of? Where do you keep grasping at?

If you are at it for 2 years and have nothing there probably is something you are desperately trying to not see, to not be fully honest.

My life is about as fucked up as a life gets in a first world country.  It's an absolute nightmare, so it could be a lot of things.  If I recognize those things fully they shouldn't stop me though should they(question mark)    

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, ChimpBrain said:

It's not that I think self development is at odds with enlightenment, just that enlightenment appears to be the last step in self development and it seems like a lot of people are trying to jump straight to the last step without doing the necessary lead-up.

I don't know if I agree with this.  I've heard a lot, including from Leo, that self-development begins at enlightenment.  Obviously, to get there though you have to be extremely disciplined, consistent, and have a intuition for finding truth.   I think I have all those.    

Another note for you all, my "n" ad "b" buttons are broke.  My keyboard is all kinds of fucked up lol.  

 

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Heart of Space

[ChimpBrain]

20 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I don't know if I agree with this.  I've heard a lot, including from Leo, that self-development begins at enlightenment.  Obviously, to get there though you have to be extremely disciplined, consistent, and have a intuition for finding truth.   I think I have all those.    

Another note for you all, my "n" ad "b" buttons are broke.  My keyboard is all kinds of fucked up lol.  

 

 

You don't have to agree man. If there's one thing I've learned since starting to watch Leo's videos and read this forum it's that I really don't know shit. I wouldn't take me seriously either. I've never heard that self development begins with enlightenment, but frankly that seems pretty silly to me. We can't improve our health, relationships, finances, mindfulness, happiness, etc., until we become enlightened? What Leo says in his "what to do after discovering enlightenment" video is that you need to have all of the above things squared away and be in a reliably solid place in your life before you start chasing enlightenment. 

 

Again I make no claims about being "right". This is just my perspective on the matter. 

[Heart of Space]

6 minutes ago, ChimpBrain said:

You don't have to agree man. If there's one thing I've learned since starting to watch Leo's videos and read this forum it's that I really don't know shit. I wouldn't take me seriously either. I've never heard that self development begins with enlightenment, but frankly that seems pretty silly to me. We can't improve our health, relationships, finances, mindfulness, happiness, etc., until we become enlightened? What Leo says in his "what to do after discovering enlightenment" video is that you need to have all of the above things squared away and be in a reliably solid place in your life before you start chasing enlightenment. 

Again I make no claims about being "right". This is just my perspective on the matter. 

That's a misinterpretation.  It's not meant that you cannot self-actualize at all before you reach enlightenment.  It wouldn't make any sense to say that.  I was only pointing out that there is most likely a radical amount of self-development to do after enlightenment and that it is not the "last step." 

 

 

[ChimpBrain]

35 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

That's a misinterpretation.  It's not meant that you cannot self-actualize at all before you reach enlightenment.  It wouldn't make any sense to say that.  I was only pointing out that there is most likely a radical amount of self-development to do after enlightenment and that it is not the "last step." 

 

 

Ahhh, you're right, I did misinterpret you, my bad! You really think there's a radical amount of self improvement left to be done after enlightenment is reached? I thought it was the end goal and that after reaching it you'd switch from spending so much time on yourself to spending much more of your time helping others to realize this profound truth. I'm clearly speculating, and speculating based off of zero first hand knowledge at that. 

[Zephyr]

Mal is right. It is the last step. Leo mentions in the Enlightenment FAQ video regarding this.

something like this:

Q: Well Leo, what is the point of self development?

A: They are meant to be staircase towards the final step, enlightenment.

this is what Mal meant. I think.

@Heart of Space you are also right. It is the beginning. Enlightenment is only the beginning, as it is I would assume an unceasing trend as Leo mentioned. It's the beginning of your deepest purpose. You can go into many depths. Still not qualified to talk about this. But Leo did mention that Enlightment is the beginning of true self development. 

I would assume the road would be a little rough for you if you don't invest in fundamentals/self development. That's just from my personal experience. 

 

[key]

@Heart of Space @ChimpBrain @Zephyr

Hey there

If you're interested in hearing a perspective..

For what it's worth, a bitter pill you'll have to swallow eventually (Leos favourite phrase?) 

Self development, self actualisation, enlightenment, there's never going to be an end, a final step, a great 'blissful perfectness of all encompassing finality to my growth and potential' quite literally you will be improving upon yourself from the present moment till the day your body dies, consciously or unconsciously, aware or not.

If you think for a moment about the scope of potential for all individuals, it's quite monumental, there's an endless array of pickings to improve yourself upon if you wish to do so. 

Enlightenment is a perspective on life, a way of relating to your experience differently, accepting it, not changing it.

Self-development is endless in its scope, so tread wisely.

all the best 

[Mal]

@Heart of Space @Zephyr @ChimpBrain @vizual @Corte @Kenya

Hi All,

My current thinking is that (parsing it from the Spiral Dynamics angle) is that satori can happen at any stage along the way, preferably from blue onward. Everyone has a right to stop at their current level, but it's advisable to keep developing and integrating the content from the previously transcended stage.

Body mind culminates at green.  First tier is then transcended and included.  So this is what 2nd tier is all about.  Re-integration of the first tier shadow, the transcendence of opposites. 

Turquoise which is a holistic stage transcends and includes Yellow which is a systemic stage.  Yellow has a shadow which is integrated during the development of Turquoise. 

And so on.  3rd tier transcends and includes the whole system toward cosmic consciousness and finally unity consciousness.

So, looking at it this way highlights some of the confusion in discussion around enlightenment.  

This process of transcendence and integration "Eros & Agape" "should" really be called "awakening" because one wakes up from their current level and then has opportunity to integrate. Nobody can integrate a stage while identified with it.

So self development, which in my eyes is based on cognitive development first and foremost, is about paradigm and perspective shifting, which opens us up to developing emotionally.  Each micro-disidentification we have (enlightnement experience) loosens the grip to the platform were currently residing on, which opens us up for further knowledge.

My perspective is a work in progress, but studying the map in its current entirety has a psychoactive element to it, in that study combined with practice (cross training) is transformative in itself. 

Warmly

Mal

[Corte]

Greetings @Mal

i find it difficult to understand cognitive development after the first tier, it seems in the first levels a lot of it has to do with the external world. Is there really any "work" to be done from turquoise onward? Or is it more of creating the right conditions for yellow, turquoise, coral to manifest? What I'm asking is it seems the roadmap is much more illusive, which is obvious because I have not transcended, what needs to be done at these levels?

[charlie2dogs]

17 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

It feels like I'm on a mission to perform heart surgery on a elephant with a toothpick, and the elephant is in an undisclosed room in a pitch black building that happens to e the biggest building in the world.  I've been on this mission for a solid 2 years now and I have nothing lol. Enlightened people make it sound like it's so obvious and easy I'm probably just missing something.   Anyone have thoughts about this, or feel similar(Question mark)  (my question mark button is broke)     

maybe it is because of all the nonsense that is being taught by people who have no experience , do ya think that might be part of the problem,

[Emerald]

18 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

It feels like I'm on a mission to perform heart surgery on a elephant with a toothpick, and the elephant is in an undisclosed room in a pitch black building that happens to e the biggest building in the world.  I've been on this mission for a solid 2 years now and I have nothing lol. Enlightened people make it sound like it's so obvious and easy I'm probably just missing something.   Anyone have thoughts about this, or feel similar(Question mark)  (my question mark button is broke)     

I feel you. But Adyashanti said that struggling is what's necessary to keep ego alive. The ego is like a paper tiger, it isn't real so it needs constantly to be fed by thought to have a foothold on reality. If you starve it out, it will naturally undo itself. The way to do this is to stop struggling against it. Accept ego and everything else in your reality. It's like a chinese finger trap, if you struggle against it, it gets tighter. But if you relax getting free is effortless. 

[Mal]

1 hour ago, Corte said:

Greetings @Mal

i find it difficult to understand cognitive development after the first tier, it seems in the first levels a lot of it has to do with the external world. Is there really any "work" to be done from turquoise onward? Or is it more of creating the right conditions for yellow, turquoise, coral to manifest? What I'm asking is it seems the roadmap is much more illusive, which is obvious because I have not transcended, what needs to be done at these levels?

Think about this for a while: How can you stop integrating perspectives? The perspective that you are a body mind? The perspective that you are Gaia? The perspective you are Unitive Self? And so on....

There are as many perspectives to integrate as there are phenomena.  As long as the manifest world evolves you will evolve with it.

I'm not sure what you mean about external world.  This manifestation is the only thing that's real. Beware of false prophets who tell you otherwise. They are merely stuck in the Absolute. The Witness is the last standing point of the ego, what comes after that is an integration into Unity Consciousness. 

Mal

Edited June 11, 2016 by Mal

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

maybe it is because of all the nonsense that is being taught by people who have no experience , do ya think that might be part of the problem,

Absolutely could be.  The thought crosses my mind all the time.  

 

Or it could be that enlightenment is not real and there's nothing to achieve here aside from a little emotional stability gained after meditating.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Heart of Space