Leo do you have another resolution about the root cause of an addiction?

[Name]

Because that one is not working.
I am a hardcore addict because I cannot control myself and I give in not because I fear death as you said.
Would you remake that video or at least give us some strategies that would work?
I think that you would disagree if you see that video now,because you talk about after death and you describe it as doing nothing and being nothing as it would be something boring and we need to get use to this state in order to get rid of our addiction.(by doing all kinds of meditation like do nothing tehnique and whatnot).

The bottom question: Do you consider that the root cause of an addiction is still the fear of nothingness?

Thank you Leo

[Astra]

It might not be fear of nothingness.

It might be limiting enjoyment to only a few experiences instead of enjoying all experiences.

If u enjoyed all experiences fully how could any one experience be your fav?

 

What helps this human enjoy every moment more is no mind/no imagination. Then it can fully focus on whatever it is sensing while also sensing peace.

 

Also knowing you are not anything that u can sense/imagine allows the human form to enjoy every moment knowing it is a miracle to experience being human so vividly.  So then what is boring can be enjoyed, what is hell can be enjoyed, and what is heaven can be enjoyed even more than before. 

There are a bunch of diff ways/paths that work diff for each person for solving any one “problem” tho since every human is unique. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

What I got from that video is that the root cause is the lack of emotional maturity to sit in a room by yourself without distraction, just you and your thoughts. The root of addiction is trying to escape from that. You can't say that this approach isn't working if you haven't taken the time to confront this existential boredom/loneliness and have undergone the work over a substantial time period in spite of the suffering it may bring about.  

[Shin]

You can also use addictions as a tool to distract yourself from what you know you should do.

If you're seriously addict you should consult a pro though, and a group to talk about which is related to the addiction.

[Telepresent]

@Name its almost like Leo didn't know what he was talking about, wasn't it? 

Almost like all the advice here which is supposedly universally profound but which ends in "maybe you should see a professional" by be suggesting something? 

[Stakres]

@Telepresent Exactly. 

@Name Seek professional help. Therapy, psychiatrist, hotlines. Please get help. New age, enlightenment, meditation are not the answer. Please get professional, licensed, scientific help. Professionals have dealt with addictions before and have a good track record.

[Reils]

21 hours ago, Name said:

I am a hardcore addict because I cannot control myself and I give in not because I fear death as you said.
Would you remake that video or at least give us some strategies that would work?

I've struggled with my fair share of addiction over time, maybe I can be of use.

What Leo said in the video is that all addiction is ultimately caused by a lack of emotional maturity- in other words, the inability to sit by yourself, in a room, and not have neurotic compulsions. Neuroses is in essence the inability to let something go.

I've found that to be true in my personal experience. The other thing which I noticed was that I simultaneously held 2 conflicting beliefs in my mind. The first belief was that I wanted to stop my compulsion. The other belief was that I found immense pleasure in my compulsion and that I wanted to do it. Can you see why that might cause problems? As long as you are attached to the desire to indulge in your compulsion- you will continue to be an addict.

Notice what I said there. I didn't say, "as long as you have the desire to indulge in your compulsion- you will continue to be an addict." I said "As long as you are attached to the desire to indulge in your compulsion- you will continue to be an addict." This is a critical distinction. Our thoughts only have as much power over us as we allow them to. What you feed grows and what you starve dies.

What I would recommend to you my friend is that you take up a daily meditation habit- one to two hours in the morning and 15 minutes in the evening. If you want maximum results you will go into a state of meditation immediately upon waking- before checking your phone, before eating breakfast, maybe after taking a piss. And you will meditate yourself to sleep in the evenings. This will do wonders for rewiring the neurons in your brain. You don't have to do that. Then again if you don't it's likely going to be much more difficult to break your addiction.

As for the specific meditation you should partake in? Let me leave you a quick description of one that might be of use- luckily for you I just typed this out for another member of the forum on direct message a couple of hours ago.

Make sure you are in an environment conducive to what you want to achieve. Turn the lights off, lay in bed, and play some light music. If you are doing this first thing in the morning- a seated meditation is ideal so you don't fall back asleep. Here is a link to the playlist which I created for my personal meditation sessions- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjckAW85ACTUqMtt_chUf-ksdiT1VoyP_ - I'd recommend clicking on the video titled "The new butterfly effect," that is a very peaceful tune as are the videos next up, but experiment with what speaks to you. Definitely do one of the either 417hz, 432hz, or 528hz. Butterfly is 432hz. If you are living in a shared environment, use headphones, otherwise, play the music softly. If you are having serious trouble completing this meditation, put on a pair of headphones and utilize the first video in the playlist, a theta binural beats session.

Trust yourself. Stay on each part of this meditation until you feel it is proper to move on to the next part. Take your time. This is all for you.

Begin by relaxing your body. Take deep breaths, in for 5 seconds, out for 5 seconds. Move your awareness to your toes, and relax them. Move your awareness the soles of your feet, and relax them. Do this for each individual part of your body, releasing all tension, all the way to the scalp. Next, move your awareness to your heart center, and start to visualize a ball of energy, it can be any color you like, spinning in a circle counterclockwise. The longer your awareness is on this ball of energy the larger it grows, until it eventually surrounds your body, and then fills the entire room. Take your time with this. Feel the gratitude provided to you from your generous heart. Realize that it wants nothing more than to see you in a state of love. 

As you maintain your awareness on the energy around your heart center, release any attachment you hold to your thoughts- good, bad, these are all simply labels we create in our minds. Accept, and  love every thought which passes through your mind, and do so from a state of total detachment from them, without judgement. If you catch yourself getting carried away by a thought, that's okay, just bring your awareness back to your breath, to your heart, to the present moment.

Now you are in the operating system of your brain- the subconscious mind. Your analytical mind should be powerless- it truly only has the power parallel to the level of attachment you hold. While keeping your awareness in the space around your heart center, cultivate gratitude. What are you grateful for? You are alive. You are breathing. Look at the beautiful mechanism by which all of this is happening. Truly you need no reason to feel gratitude. Reason is a limitation provided to you by your ego. You can simply choose to feel gratitude. Set the intention. Notice the difference between desire and intention. Feel the desire to move your arm up. Now actually move your arm up. Notice that difference? The second one was intention. Become familiar with this energy and that is what you will use to cultivate the emotions you seek. From gratitude set the clear intention to cultivate love and appreciation. From love and appreciation cultivate joy and bliss. From joy and bliss cultivate freedom and the feeling of being unlimited. Notice how I do not say try to do these things. Just do them. They exist within you right now.

The next thing that you're going to do is bless your energy centers, starting with the root chakra. As you're doing this, maintain the elevated emotions you just cultivated. What emotion is your choice. Bliss, freedom, infinity, gratitude, appreciation, joy, all good choices.

Begin by placing your awareness, your focus, inside of your perineum, and hold it there for as long as you please, whatever feels proper to you. Next, you will move your awareness to the space around the perineum, and, same as before, hold it there as long as you please. Both pieces of this meditation, the internal focus on the energy center and then the focus on the space around it, are essential, as is the elevated emotion.

Once you have finished with your root chakra, repeat that same process for the space right below and behind your bellybutton. From there, repeat the process for the space in the pit of your gut. From there, to inside your chest, behind the center of the breastbone. Next, to the center of the throat. Next, to the space between your throat and the back of your head, inside your head of course. From there, to the space in the center of your head. And finally, to the space approximately 16 inches above your head.

Now, maintain that practice for as long as you'd like. The longer you are cultivating these elevated emotions the better. Once you feel grounded in these emotions, I want you to do a breathing technique that will work wonders in tandem with that portion of the meditation, and this breath is something you can truly do any time you feel energy getting locked in the lower energy centers, and it will elevate your state of being.

Your breath should still be very relaxed. To perform this breathing technique, begin by ensuring you're in a position where your spine is straight, as it most likely already is. Begin to take a long, deep breath in through your nose, to the base of your spine. When you feel your breath apply pressure to the pelvic floor, contract your perineum- maintain the contraction and inhalation. Follow your breath, and when it fills your lower abdomen, begin to contract that as well. Same thing for your upper abdomen. Now, you should have the area of your body from your perineum to upper abdomen contracted. Inhale as full as you can while maintaining those contractions, and move your awareness to the very top of your head. Hold your breath for as long as comfortable, while maintaining your contractions and awareness of the head. As you exhale, release the contractions.

You can perform that breath as many times as you'd like, it should assist with the meditation session.

Now, simply meditate. Remain detached from your thoughts. Maintain elevated emotions. Do this for as long as you please. The longer you do it the more grounded you will make this state of being throughout the rest of the day, especially if you begin your day with this meditation.

 

My friend, you have the power to win this battle. But it will not be a battle won in arms or in strength- it will be a battle of peace. A test of your ability to remain calm in the face of adversity. To simply say- "you know what, I don't even have to entertain that thought!" Remain detached. You got this. I'd also recommend Leo's videos on how to overcome a victim's mentality, it could be very beneficial. Godspeed

2 hours ago, Stakres said:

Seek professional help. Therapy, psychiatrist, hotlines. Please get help. New age, enlightenment, meditation are not the answer. Please get professional, licensed, scientific help. Professionals have dealt with addictions before and have a good track record.

My friend, medicine and meditation are not mutually exclusive domains. Medical professionals have a multitude of flaws in their own right. And "New Age" ahhahahaahha I wish I had the laughing emoji  This stuff has been taught for multiple millennia  

4 hours ago, Telepresent said:

its almost like Leo didn't know what he was talking about, wasn't it? 

Almost like all the advice here which is supposedly universally profound but which ends in "maybe you should see a professional" by be suggesting something? 

It is you who knows not of what they speak of  May you find peace

Edited January 6, 2020 by Reils

[Stakres]

1 minute ago, Reils said:

My friend, medicine and meditation are not mutually exclusive domains. And "New Age" ahhahahaahha I wish I had the laughing emoji  This stuff has been taught for multiple millennia

Medicine and meditation are not mutually exclusive. You can do both, I agree. My point is: if you are addicted, the wisest decision would be to seek professional help, because doctors are licensed and have a track record of helping people.

 

Quote

It is you who knows not of what they speak of  May you find peace

Question everything you were lead to believe here. What if he is right and everything you were lead to believe here is wrong? Have you considered that?

[Shin]

5 hours ago, Telepresent said:

@Name its almost like Leo didn't know what he was talking about, wasn't it? 

Almost like all the advice here which is supposedly universally profound but which ends in "maybe you should see a professional" by be suggesting something? 

Fundamentally it is still what Leo says it is, but it's not the only thing that goes into account and can be treated on the surface differently.

In the end to stop all addiction he will still need to confront boredom and loneliness, otherwise it's just gonna create an another addiction at some point.

 

[Reils]

22 minutes ago, Stakres said:

26 minutes ago, Reils said:

My friend, medicine and meditation are not mutually exclusive domains. And "New Age" ahhahahaahha I wish I had the laughing emoji  This stuff has been taught for multiple millennia

Medicine and meditation are not mutually exclusive. You can do both, I agree. My point is: if you are addicted, the wisest decision would be to seek professional help, because doctors are licensed and have a track record of helping people.

I'm not sure where OP lives but where I'm at it will cost him an arm and a leg to seek help from a licensed doctor. I was attempting to give practical advice that could be applied today, and that I have seen the highest success rate when implemented.

Then again, in my original post I was sloppy because meditation is medicine.

Who are we to say whether a licensed medical professional is more effective in helping people recover from addiction any more than an acupuncturist, or a reiki healer? I don't know. I just know that the current way the U S of A handles people struggling with addiction in the professional setting is less than desirable.

30 minutes ago, Stakres said:

Quote

It is you who knows not of what they speak of  May you find peace

Question everything you were lead to believe here. What if he is right and everything you were lead to believe here is wrong? Have you considered that?

I have considered that to a very deep extent.

[Stakres]

8 minutes ago, Reils said:

Who are we to say whether a licensed medical professional is more effective in helping people recover from addiction any more than an acupuncturist, or a reiki healer? I don't know. I just know that the current way the U S of A handles people struggling with addiction in the professional setting is less than desirable.

What do you based your assessment on that "professional setting doesn't treat addiction desirably"?

There are statistics and verified peer reviewed science which backs up the effectiveness of addiction.

Quote

•     Up to 80% of those treated for depression show an improvement in their symptoms generally within four to six weeks of beginning medication, psychotherapy, attending support groups or a combination of these treatments. (National Institute of Health, 1998)
•     Despite its high treatment success rate, nearly two out of three people suffering with depression do not actively seek nor receive proper treatment. (DBSA, 1996)
•     An estimated 50% of unsuccessful treatment for depression is due to medical non-compliance. Patients stop taking their medication too soon due to unacceptable side effects, financial factors, fears of addiction and/or short-term improvement of symptoms, leading them to believe that continuing treatment is unnecessary. (DBSA, 1999)
•     Participation in a DBSA patient-to-patient support group improved treatment compliance by almost 86% and reduced in-patient hospitalization. Support group participants are 86% more willing to take medication and cope with side effects. (DBSA, 1999)

https://www.dbsalliance.org/education/depression/statistics/

 

Acupuncturist, or a reiki healer can be helpful to some. That is possible. However if you are depressed, the first step should be to seek professional medical help. You can do everything else on the side.

 

10 minutes ago, Reils said:

I have considered that to a very deep extent.

Which conclusions have you come to? I would love to chat about that over PM, because it's out of scope of this thread.

[Raptorsin7]

@Stakres @Reils If you guys pm please post the transcripts or invite haha. Seems like a nuclear level convo in the making

[purerogue]

I am confused, one guy is talking about addiction ,other one about depression, are you guys even on same page?  

 

 

[Reils]

Hahahaha no clue my friend 

 

[Stakres]

@purerogue Addiction is very closely related to depression. What I got from Reils' post was that in his view, medicine isn't very effective in treating mental health conditions.

My point was: it's important to get professional health if you are addicted and you can do whatever you want to on the side.

We have different views, but no need to debate.

Addicted people could try different approaches and see what works for them.

[Reils]

My bad yeah I was a bit of a dick back there. I'm much too tired to be doing this hahaha

[purerogue]

15 minutes ago, Stakres said:

@purerogue Addiction is very closely related to depression. What I got from Reils' post was that in his view, medicine isn't very effective in treating mental health conditions.

My point was: it's important to get professional health if you are addicted and you can do whatever you want to on the side.

We have different views, but no need to debate.

Addicted people could try different approaches and see what works for them.

Still there are 2 problems that I came up with:

1)What does "shown signs of improvement" even mean.

2)3-4 weeks is long time for depression, to have it last that long it must be serious, so what cases are they making statistic of, if they take all minor depressions in account then it is very skewed.  

Well there is third point as well, but I think it will make it into argument in both sides , so I will leave it out. 

 

Seeking professional help is good advice , better then not, but please stop acting as if we know nothing about this, people here have overcome many depressions doing this work and lot have come here with depression and overcome it.

And quite a few got depressed too

Edited January 6, 2020 by purerogue

[Reils]

I am not interested in the current way that society treats mental health because it is more focused on monetizing the treatment of patients rather than working at the root, and finding a cure.

I have had too many individual experiences with- as well as friends and family members suffering from -addiction, depression, suicide, anxiety, to believe that the current health care system in America cares about our health.

The individuals on the ground floor are often great people. But you stick a diamond in a shitter and it is still going into the sewer.

[Stakres]

2 minutes ago, purerogue said:

1)What does "shown signs of improvement" even mean.

You can look into the actual studies and the primary sources. They will have the definition of "show signs of improvement".

There are different scientific models with which you can measure the severity of depression, for example Beck Depression Inventory, with which you can measure the severity of symptoms. After the clinical intervention the symptoms have improved, ie the patient was feeling better

 

Quote

2)3-4 weeks is long time for depression, to have it last that long it must be serious, so what cases are they making statistic of, if they take all minor depressions in account then it is very skewed. 

Again, there are different studies. Some studies take all severities of depression into account, others only severe depressions. From the top of my head, medicine helps the most with most with the most severe depression.

 

10 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Seeking professional help is good advice , better then not, but please stop acting as if we know nothing about this, people here have overcome many depressions doing this work and lot have come here with depression and overcome it.

I agree. There are many people you have had success with this. It would be great to see peer-reviewed research on the success of this work.

 

3 minutes ago, Reils said:

I am not interested in the current way that society treats mental health because it is more focused on monetizing the treatment of patients rather than working at the root, and finding a cure.

I have had too many individual experiences with- as well as friends and family members suffering from -addiction, depression, suicide, anxiety, to believe that the current health care system in America cares about our health.

The individuals on the ground floor are often great people. But you stick a diamond in a shitter and it is still going into the sewer.

I agree, the treatments aren't ideal, are monetized and could be improved.

I'm not sure if you have done therapy, but "working at the root and finding a cure" is exactly what therapy helps patients with. Either with the life situation or deep rooted childhood issues like trauma. I would suggest you read about medicine in that area. I assume you are under-informed how far medicine goes. Most practices talked about here can be found in peer-reviewed science

 

[Reils]

8 minutes ago, Stakres said:

15 minutes ago, Reils said:

I am not interested in the current way that society treats mental health because it is more focused on monetizing the treatment of patients rather than working at the root, and finding a cure.

I have had too many individual experiences with- as well as friends and family members suffering from -addiction, depression, suicide, anxiety, to believe that the current health care system in America cares about our health.

The individuals on the ground floor are often great people. But you stick a diamond in a shitter and it is still going into the sewer.

I agree, the treatments aren't ideal, are monetized and could be improved.

I'm not sure if you have done therapy, but "working at the root and finding a cure" is exactly what therapy helps patients with. Either with the life situation or deep rooted childhood issues like trauma. I would suggest you read about medicine in that area. I assume you are under-informed how far medicine goes. Most practices talked about here can be found in peer-reviewed science

By all means it was ignorant of me to blanket all health care under one term. By no means am I an expert. I certainly agree that there are many beneficial sub-sects such as therapy.

It is truly a cultural issue. Something that is not so easily solved. The way we are living is what is causing the majority of the suffering in America. The dopamine triggers which are setting up our youth for bastardization and addiction. But because it makes money and we live in a SD stage orange society that is acceptable.