True meaning of enlightenment

[VeganAwake]

Seeing things with childlike eyes and innocence... love it ❤

[WelcometoReality]

Lovely <3. But isn't all meaning a construction and therefore relative?

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Lovely <3. But isn't all meaning a construction and therefore relative?

 yes but no need to let that understanding get in the way of enjoying life and all of its beauty and ahhh. ❤

 

[WelcometoReality]

21 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

 yes but no need to let that understanding get in the way of enjoying life and all of its beauty and ahhh. ❤

 

<3

[Ibn Sina]

On 1/3/2020 at 4:59 PM, WelcometoReality said:

all meaning

Not all. Some meanings are consistent to the world of forms. 

Absolute meanings-
The speed of light is 3 times 10^8 meter/sec in vaccum.
g= 9.8 meter/secsquare
G= 6.67 *10^-11
Water is transparent. Milk is whitish. It is the same for you, for me, at least for normal humans. This is not relative.
The sun converts hydrogen to helium and releases energy.This is not relative.
From seed comes  out plant. This is not relative.
 

Relative meanings
That person looks beautiful. That person looks ugly.
It is wrong, It  is right.
Tallness, Shortness, small, large.
Bad experience, Good experience
positive event, negative event.

Leo taught it wrong in his vid. Or atleast try to prove how the world is void of absolute meanings.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ibn Sina

[Nemo28]

@Ibn Sina are you a robot?

[seeking_brilliance]

@VeganAwake haha nice post time

 

[VeganAwake]

@Ibn Sina ❤

[VeganAwake]

@Nemo28 ❤

[VeganAwake]

@seeking_brilliance  Its always a good time 4 Double Rainbow Guy ?

 

[Ibn Sina]

2 hours ago, Nemo28 said:

are you a robot?

I am an INTJ which kind of makes me a robot. 
 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ibn Sina

[LfcCharlie4]

“Rupert: Awakening is the realisation that what we are, that is, the Awareness that is seeing these words and experiencing whatever else is being experienced at this and every moment, is neither limited nor located.

This realisation does not happen to a body or a mind. It happens to itself, Awareness.

Yes, until this realisation, we believe that what we are is a limited and separate entity located in and as a body. With this belief and subsequent feeling, our true nature seems to be veiled, just as a screen seems to be veiled by the appearance of an image on it. 

With this apparent veiling of our true nature, the peace, happiness and love that are inherent in it seemed to be lost. From that moment on the apparent entity is condemned to search in the apparent separate world for peace, happiness and love.

The recognition of our true nature brings this search to an end and reveals itself as the peace, happiness and love that seemed to have been lost.

The feeling ‘at that moment’ has no objective qualities. It is more like a falling away. Have you ever felt love for someone? Of course, yes. What does that feel like? I do not mean to ask about the effect it has on the mind or the body, but the love itself. Are we not lost for words if we try to find it as an object, let alone describe it? But we know beyond all doubt that it is present and real. 

Do not look for awakening in any kind of objective experience of the mind or the body.

If you want to look for any signs, look in the direction of peace, happiness and love.

Yes, my view of the world changed completely. First of all it became clear that the world appears in me. Later it became clear that the world is made of me, that is, made of Awareness. And then it became clear that experience and Awareness are simply ‘not two.’

The realignment of the mind and the body with this clear seeing takes time and varies from case to case. “

 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

Not all. Some meanings are consistent to the world of forms. 

Absolute meanings-
The speed of light is 3 times 10^8 meter/sec in vaccum.
g= 9.8 meter/secsquare
G= 6.67 *10^-11
Water is transparent. Milk is whitish. It is the same for you, for me, at least for normal humans. This is not relative.
The sun converts hydrogen to helium and releases energy.This is not relative.
From seed comes  out plant. This is not relative.
 

Relative meanings
That person looks beautiful. That person looks ugly.
It is wrong, It  is right.
Tallness, Shortness, small, large.
Bad experience, Good experience
positive event, negative event.

Leo taught it wrong in his vid. Or atleast try to prove how the world is void of absolute meanings.

Speed is measured from a point of reference.  The speed of a car measured from the ground it's driving on might be 50mph but measured from the centre of the galaxy the speed is hundreds of thousands miles per hour. So speed is relative.

What would transparent be without opaque?

And white without black?

Would a plant exist without a seed?

Somethings might seem to be absolute but that is only fŕom within that frame of reference.

For there to be relativity though there must also be the absolute. What is that?

 

[Ibn Sina]

15 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Speed is measured from a point of reference. 

The speed of light is the absolute cosmic limit, and this cannot be changed. Ask that to Einstein. No such point of references involved unless you are talking about relative velocity which is a small concept in physics, which contains many other concepts.

Likewise, yes speed  is relative for different observers. My point was absolute facts do exist, my point was not whether speed  was relative  or not. The fact that g=9.8m/secsquare when measured from earth, is an absolute fact. Which disproves your statement 'everything is relative'.

15 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

What would transparent be without opaque?

I do not believe the nonsense that for something to be x, the y must be present. The color black is  black, it does not need white. Transparent is transparent, it does not need opacity. I can easily imagine a world which was completely white, or a  world completely black, I do not need other references to tell me that they are white or black. If you think other wise, it's okay, but not for me.

 

15 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Would a plant exist without a seed?

It doesn't. And it has nothing to do with relativity. I said a plant like gymnosperm or angiosperm comes from a seed, which is absolute whether you are a human, a  black, white, asian, dog , cat, in all cases this fact remains true.

 

15 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

For there to be relativity though there must also be the absolute. What is that?

This is out of the topic of  discussion.

 

Relative meaning means you and I see the world differently , you and I assign different meanings to the world, but because we believe 2 different things to be true that doesn't mean both things are present in the objective world.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

23 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

I can easily imagine a world which was completely white, or a  world completely black, I do not need other references to tell me that they are white or black. 

For any of image to be held in the mind, there is a not that image. For example, one can imagine all white because they know not to imagine black, pink, turkey sandwiches or dancing bears high on cocaine. For the mind to imagine a thing, there must be a not that thing to not imagine.

If one was asked to imagine all “sfexqe”, they couldn’t do it because there is no reference of what is “sfexqe” and what is not “sfexqe”.

[Ibn Sina]

16 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

For any of image to be held in the mind, there is a not that image. For example, one can imagine all white because they know not to imagine black, pink, turkey sandwiches or dancing bears high on cocaine. Yet if one was asked to imagine all “sfexqe”, they couldn’t do it because there is no reference of what is “sfexqe” and what is not “sfexqe”.

it's a COMPLETELY different topic that  you are talking about, it has NOTHING to do with the 'relativity' that I was  talking about. 
The relativity of meaning that  the original topic was is- you see one thing I see other thing, are both true at the same time?
The relativity (is it?) you are talking about is- If something exists, like for someone to see white, he should not see/imagine x,y,z (obviously?).  Likewise one couldn't imagine sfexque because simply because they don't know what that means, no need to add 'there is noreference of what is “sfexqe” and what is not “sfexqe”.' It has no meaning in the  dictionary, that is why they can't imagine it, no need  to talk about references and all for such a simple idea.

Go to the outer space, you will see pure black. Go to a completely lit room. You will see all white. You will not have the same experience in both the cases. With this thought experiment, the idea that for black to exist there should be white etc is disproven (slightly misleading conclusion, it has a dual meaning, I mean one of those, not the other one.)

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

Go to the outer space, you will see pure black. 

Black relative to what? If a being was born in outer space and spent their entire life in outer space, they would have no reference of “black” vs “not black” and “black” would not exist. You are creating a thing calked “black” relative to a thing called “not black”. Without that contrast, there is no “black” and “not black”. 

“Not black” must exist for “black” to exist. Once a construct of “black” vs “not black” is created, of course “black” and “not black” do not need to be side-by-side. “Black” can be in the foreground and “not black” can be in the background. If you went to outer space, “black” would be your foreground and “not black” would be your background. They don’t need to be side by side. 

You seem to be creating an external, objective, universal reality  in which a “thing” can independently exist without a “not thing”. Thus, you are seeing black is not equal to white, yet not seeing that black = white. If black is not different than white, then they are the same and there is no longer black and white. 

In terms of experience: without the reference of contrast, the experience of black and white is the same. To highlight this, watch the video of the man with a 7 second memory. Over and over again he said “Night and day are the same. Night and day, no difference”. . . Night and day are the same in his experience because he has no experiential reference for night and day being different, even though he is within what we refer to as night or day. This man can be in complete dark at night or bright sunshine during the day, yet he tells us his experience is the same because he cannot experientially contrast night and day. 

Also, I’m not disagreeing with you. From within your context everything you are saying is true. 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

“Rupert: Awakening is the realisation that what we are, that is, the Awareness that is seeing these words and experiencing whatever else is being experienced at this and every moment, is neither limited nor located.

This realisation does not happen to a body or a mind. It happens to itself, Awareness.

Yes, until this realisation, we believe that what we are is a limited and separate entity located in and as a body. With this belief and subsequent feeling, our true nature seems to be veiled, just as a screen seems to be veiled by the appearance of an image on it. 

With this apparent veiling of our true nature, the peace, happiness and love that are inherent in it seemed to be lost. From that moment on the apparent entity is condemned to search in the apparent separate world for peace, happiness and love.

The recognition of our true nature brings this search to an end and reveals itself as the peace, happiness and love that seemed to have been lost.

The feeling ‘at that moment’ has no objective qualities. It is more like a falling away. Have you ever felt love for someone? Of course, yes. What does that feel like? I do not mean to ask about the effect it has on the mind or the body, but the love itself. Are we not lost for words if we try to find it as an object, let alone describe it? But we know beyond all doubt that it is present and real. 

Do not look for awakening in any kind of objective experience of the mind or the body.

If you want to look for any signs, look in the direction of peace, happiness and love.

Yes, my view of the world changed completely. First of all it became clear that the world appears in me. Later it became clear that the world is made of me, that is, made of Awareness. And then it became clear that experience and Awareness are simply ‘not two.’

The realignment of the mind and the body with this clear seeing takes time and varies from case to case. “

 

❤ really like this one!!?

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

The relativity of meaning that  the original topic was is- you see one thing I see other thing, are both true at the same time?

What’s “seen” doesn’t have any meaning. Human brains are the only “place” meaning “exists”. To arrive at satisfaction of the question, is what is seen true...you’d have to realize there is nothing being seen, so no thought about it could be true. A thought about nothing, is something, not nothing. Nothing actually does exist. Imo, that was Einstein’s point. By writing the theory of relativity, he made himself the greatest mindfuck of all time. He proved everything is relative to you. (Including Einstein). He wrote the theory of the cosmic joke. Innocence can not be lumped in with “meaning”. How innocent are you right now? How could the duality of thought ever capture this, when it’s being created of it?

[WelcometoReality]

5 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

The speed of light is always constant. Ask that to Einstein. No such point of references involved.

Yes it's been measured with objects that's been still relative to the light. That would be the only sound thing to do scientifically.

14 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

I do not believe the nonsense that for something to be x, the y must be present. The color black is  black, it does not need white. Transparent is transparent, it does not need opacity. I can easily imagine a world which was completely white, or a  world completely black, I do not need other references to tell me that they are white or black. If you think other wise, it's okay, but not for me.

At which point does white cease to be white and become grey and black, the same for transparent to opaque. Aren't these grades on the same scale rather than different attributes?

Can you imagine a world in gamma?

How would someone that's been blind all their life imagine a red world?

21 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

It doesn't. And it has nothing to do with relativity. I said a plant like gymnosperm or angiosperm comes from a seed, which is absolute whether you are a human, a  black, white, asian, dog , cat, in all cases this fact remains true.

Yes and the seed does not wake up and think of the meaning of its existence. Only a human mind does that. And different human minds find different meaning to their existence. Which is what I meant that meaning is constructed.