The question of having children

[Nahm]

@bejapuskas Yes. The difference in a nutshell is anger & patience, and we’re equal. 

[bejapuskas]

Yeh without kids there is no teaching to spread

And even with kids, the teaching will die, all things will

Edited January 7, 2020 by bejapuskas

[exhale]

@bejapuskas Is your comment intentionally nihilistic, or am I losing something in my interpretation?  

[bejapuskas]

@exhale  No no no, I don't like nihilism much. But I also see that argument that a teaching will live longer as ignorant.

When all kids die, all teachings die as well, right.

[bejapuskas]

@Nahm  Thank you! Could you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

[Angelite]

On 1/7/2020 at 9:39 PM, Nahm said:

Yes. Of course. 

Yes of course. @danilofaria

On 1/7/2020 at 11:00 PM, Cherylann said:

The latest video where Leo makes the statement that 

Leo's video is very messed up. I see a lot of lies & dishonesty. 

[exhale]

14 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@exhale  No no no, I don't like nihilism much. But I also see that argument that a teaching will live longer as ignorant.

When all kids die, all teachings die as well, right.

In the height of slavery, the more progressive parents would teach (directly or indirectly through their actions) that slavery/human exploitation was not consistent with their values.  Their kids learned this, and society has continued to make significant improvements/progression on human rights issues.  The passing on of intergenerational values has resulted in the significant improvements of millions of lives. 

It would be disheartening if someone in the 1800's said that "all kids die, all teachings die as well", so why bother.  Especially when you are empathetic of those exploited.  

I don't come from an aggressive perspective when I ask these questions, I am genuinely interested in your answers.  If this is your mindset, why do anything then?  Why care about anything?  Why have any goals or aspirations?

Actualized.com is fundamental a resource that teaches.  Why participate in these proceedings?  

 

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Nahm  Thank you! Could you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

My parents were / are entirely subject - object perspective driven, dogmatic, and therefore in self-denial of their belief in judgement.  So there are let downs, anger, outbursts, misunderstandings, not being understood, self imposed illnesses, yada yada...suffering. 

I’m well aware each of my kids are creating their reality, and that nothing I can say could be as effective as the feeling that is source within them. So I appeal to that. So, from on onlooker perspective, my dad was angry, and I am patient. (I’m not really patient, I just have seen through what it “is”). At the same time, I am only the way I am, thanks to my parents, while of course, I don’t actually have parents and I’m aware my kids don’t either. (And they do)

[bejapuskas]

@exhale  Oh yes I get you  Good question to contemplate... You could say from this perspective that like scientific progress and moral development are more important than babies (this could be questioned with how many kids are needed to become more meaningful to us than the other two, from what level of conscious are we judging etc...), but I am more concerned about the attachment to any of these. It might last longer, but not forever. Maybe I am pointing more towards emotional mastery than towards practicality here... if that makes sense...

I resonate with Abraham Maslow's opinion on this very much, I guess I have some sort of human nature and caring for the Universe, which makes thing enjoyable, but maybe I haven't arrived at the final answer yet. It's probably just that when I feel better, I do stuff. And you might maybe look at it from the perspective of transcendence of the story where you see that this is just happening, but still there is this kind of flow that navigates you more towards particular things than some others. Like when you are in love with everything and joyful, you won't go out and hurt people, helping naturally seems like a much better idea.

What is your view on this?  

@Nahm

35 minutes ago, Nahm said:

My parents were / are entirely subject - object perspective driven, dogmatic, and therefore in self-denial of their belief in judgement.  So there are let downs, anger, outbursts, misunderstandings, not being understood, self imposed illnesses, yada yada...suffering. 

You mean in the relationship between you and your parents / your kids and their grandparents?

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I’m well aware each of my kids are creating their reality, and that nothing I can say could be as effective as the feeling that is source within them. So I appeal to that. 

Could you say that you support anything (maybe not absolutely anything) that arises from them?

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

So, from on onlooker perspective, my dad was angry, and I am patient. (I’m not really patient, I just have seen through what it “is”).

Hahahahahahaahahaha this sounds so zen devil, but yeh, beautiful <3

38 minutes ago, Nahm said:

At the same time, I am only the way I am, thanks to my parents, while of course, I don’t actually have parents and I’m aware my kids don’t either. (And they do)

Oh yes! I am still confused though about how you manage to do this... Kids these days sometimes feel like they have always been addicted to chocolate and Fortnite, monkey mind, selfish, but have they actually? I wonder what would happen if I would observe a child grow if they were really connected to the Source all their lives...  This is inspiring

[Nahm]

20 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

You mean in the relationship between you and your parents / your kids and their grandparents?

No, I mean from & between my parents in reference to my childhood. Grand parenting is entirely different. 

21 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Could you say that you support anything (maybe not absolutely anything) that arises from them?

No, but I support them. I see distinctions between being, and the actions & behaviors of being.  Also, yes, in the sense, none of the distinctions are absolute.

23 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Hahahahahahaahahaha this sounds so zen devil, but yeh, beautiful <3

lol. Zen devilry is like the Hulk realizing he’s just always angry. 

 

[bejapuskas]

@Nahm  hahahahahahahahahaahahaha

Thank you ?

[bejapuskas]

@exhale  You can actually go beyond doing anything.

[exhale]

@bejapuskas I think we are just on different wavelengths, and that is okay.

I'd love to give my view on this, but I have taken a couple days to think about/contemplate what you have said so I can give a respectful reply.  Though I'm still not really sure I understand what you are trying to convey, nor how to respond.  

[Amandine]

On 03/01/2020 at 2:56 AM, danilofaria said:

In the end, I really tend to not wanna have children. But this argument (which I admit is a selfish argument)

What do you mean by this? How is it selfish?

[Quicksilver]

No, people don't have children to reproduce their Genes. That's a bullshit strawman. 

One of the weakest videos of Leo of the past year.

[bejapuskas]

1 hour ago, exhale said:

@bejapuskas I think we are just on different wavelengths, and that is okay.

I'd love to give my view on this, but I have taken a couple days to think about/contemplate what you have said so I can give a respectful reply.  Though I'm still not really sure I understand what you are trying to convey, nor how to respond.  

It's all cool! Can you see how you are not really doing anything, there is just stuff happening and you are making up what it is?  

[danilofaria]

10 hours ago, Amandine said:

What do you mean by this? How is it selfish?

The argument of wanting to have children so you have people to care for you when you're old is selfish because the person having the children is mostly worried about themselves, that's what I meant. But even then, I still think it is one of the strongest reasons.

[Amandine]

13 hours ago, danilofaria said:

The argument of wanting to have children so you have people to care for you when you're old is selfish because the person having the children is mostly worried about themselves, that's what I meant. But even then, I still think it is one of the strongest reasons.

 

"In the end, I really tend to not wanna have children. But this argument (which I admit is a selfish argument).."

As you'd put selfish here in juxtaposition with not wanting to have children, I interpreted that to mean that you believe it a selfish act in not having them (which some people also tend to argue).  

Edited January 11, 2020 by Amandine

[Rebecca Kalamata]

Hi danilofaria,

Please bear with me, I have a lot to say on this topic of having children.

First of all, I always wanted kids as a young child and later a young woman but I was aware that I was pretty fucked up in a lot of ways and I blamed my parents for that as well as my own selfishness and helplessness in the face of a lot of self-destructive things that I wanted to do. I was unrelenting in my accusations to my parents of their having taken easy ways out and selling themselves out for material things and on and on. And the truth is that I have not actually met any parents that did more, gave more, achieved more, or were just great parents than mine.

So I was setting the bar pretty high for myself cause I knew that the day would come when my own kids would confront me with my bullshit and blame me for their miseries. So first and foremost it became very important to cut out my bullshit. And I couldn't.

Next came the issue of a father to my hypothetical kids. Being a woman with authority issues, how ever was I to find a partner that wasn't going to pull the control shit that many men think that they have to pull? Granted, there are blessed souls out there that are actualized and aren't controlling. I just had never met one. So my solution was to "seek lower companions", guys that were pretty much more fucked up than me. On top of that, I didn't trust men who hadn't stepped out of the box AND I didn't trust men who had. At least the "Bad Boys" were fun and weren't on my case with disapproval and control.

I was really conscious that finances and kids are major factors in breaking up relationships. A good rule of thumb that I thought of was that a person should be able to support themself and one other before they have a child. Shit happens in life and most marriages break up. All the sad stories about the long-suffering single mothers, the custody battles, the child support. What a nightmare to be shackled to a man for the rest of my youth, that I once thought I loved, until my child could support himself/herself.

In my thirties, I finally put a lot of the bullshit aside and became a primary school teacher. It immediately was apparent that the kids with a fighting chance of progressing in academic learning were the ones who had someone at home that was ACTUALLY DOING THEIR HOMEWORK WITH THEM. And I am not talking about, 'kid at the table while Mom is cooking dinner or doing laundry, or bathing another kid, or, or, or....' And homework just keeps getting harder and harder. By 5th grade, kids are getting several hours of homework now. As a teacher, I hated assigning homework because I knew the havoc that it was causing in many of the homes. "Do you God Damned Homework! "I can't!" "What do you mean you CAN'T? Aren't you paying attention in class?" "But she didn't explain it!" "Well then ASK her!" "I did but I still didn't understand!" In some homes, this battle goes on every night FOR YEARS. People in nuclear families begin to HATE each other due to homework wars.

I have LOTS more reasons NOT to have children. But let's say a couple genuinely love one another and can demonstrate it on a daily basis so their kids know what love is. Let's say the reason that they decide to have kids to love the kids, not to be loved by the kids. Let's say they are well on the road to actualization and have developed themselves enough to be able to use their talents to do satisfying and profitable work and are generally happy within themselves. 

Hard times are coming. I wouldn't want to raise cannon fodder. Nor would I want to raise a hero or a martyr. I am still too bloody selfish to risk that kind of pain. The loss is that I don't get to experience that unconditional love that I would feel from and for another human being. I'm struggling enough with whether or not I am coming back to help out cause I know I'm God and that I will have a choice. I'm not real happy about that either though. I was really hoping that enlightenment was going to fix this BLEEDING compassion of mine. I'm still hoping that I won't be bleeding with it all the time. That's how I personally will know I'm thinking. Bliss and bleeding may both start with bl but I'm thinking that the blood has to go yet and still! "God forgive them, they know not what they do!' He wasn't talking about the nails and the cross. He was talking about IT ALL. Love and forgiveness is the context. It's the fucking painful content that one can do a bit better overall with, while remembering the context. Am I my brother's keeper? I mean, AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER?

So how much pain can you handle? How much love do you manifest? How much money do you have? How happy are you? How well can you guide without controlling? How open can you keep your hand? How open can you keep your heart?

I used to say that I'd have grandkids if I could skip the mother part. In a least expected way, something like that occurred but even then, to be able to pursue my path, I have left those kiddos in California and am gradually shifting my world to Kalamata, Greece. Come visit me sometime. This is my land of miracles. rebasin3@gmail.com