The question of having children

[Arcangelo]

4 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

Studies have shown that having children detracts greatly from life happiness.

You are right. Check it out:

'' Research shows (over and over again) that having children reduces happiness (e.g. Anderson, Russel, & Schumm, 1983 or Campbell, 1981), even though parents think it will make them happier.

This phenomenon is known as “The Parenthood Paradox” or “Parenthood Gap“.

 

Why don’t children make parents happier?

One of the dominant explanations for this is that children increase the amount and level of a variety of stressors that parents are exposed to (Glass, J., Simon R.W., Andersson M.A., 2016,), such as:

time demands

energy demands

sleep deprivation (potentially starting a vicious circle)

work-life balance disturbances

financial burden

 

It goes without saying that all of these stressors apply even more to the lives of single parents. This is why single parents report the lowest levels of well-being compared to married or unmarried couples who are living together. ''

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Arcangelo
quotation marks

[Arcangelo]

Some comments about the article:

''Mother of 3, gave up a good paying job after the 3rd one. My own family members do not wish to help me in babysitting at all. My husband works hard and late day in day out for the family but he has no time for the kids.
Happiness index: zero.
Fulfilment? Zero too.''

 

''I had one child, a son, forty years ago; I almost lost my life to toxemia, and did not have any more children. If I had it to do again, I would have zero; this world is too cruel; the choice would not be for my happiness, but to prevent the suffering of another human.''

 

''Personally, my partner and are both very comfortable with not being parents. The older I get, the more comfortable I feel with our decision.

There were many different factors that influenced our decision, the biggest being climate change. My partner works in the environment sector and future predictions on climate change are pretty dire. We both felt that the world does not need the burden of another person, particularly a first world person.

We both work part time in work we enjoy and while we may not be materially rich, but we love our lives and we have time to enjoy them and pursue other interests, even if that means just being able to spend an afternoon pottering in the garden, going for a walk in nature or reading a book.

Our friends who have kids are good parents, but I really feel for them. They seem to be in a constant state of just going through the motions in life, with no time to look after themselves or for personal reflection. I feel like I would find it very hard to be happy with no time for myself.

So for those who have chosen to be parents, I wish you very well, it is not an easy road you have chosen, but I’m sure it is very fulfilling also.

For those who are thinking that parenthood is not for them, I’d say you don’t need kids to be happy. My life is simple, quiet and very happy without children.''

[MAYA EL]

5 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

You are right. Check it out:

'' Research shows (over and over again) that having children reduces happiness (e.g. Anderson, Russel, & Schumm, 1983 or Campbell, 1981), even though parents think it will make them happier.

This phenomenon is known as “The Parenthood Paradox” or “Parenthood Gap“.

 

Why don’t children make parents happier?

One of the dominant explanations for this is that children increase the amount and level of a variety of stressors that parents are exposed to (Glass, J., Simon R.W., Andersson M.A., 2016,), such as:

time demands

energy demands

sleep deprivation (potentially starting a vicious circle)

work-life balance disturbances

financial burden

 

It goes without saying that all of these stressors apply even more to the lives of single parents. This is why single parents report the lowest levels of well-being compared to married or unmarried couples who are living together. ''

 

 

Studies also showed that it was bad to eat egg yokes for about a decade until the Cooper institute did the study again as a follow up to check long term results and confirm previous findings but instead changed the official medical opinion on the dietary consumption of egg yolks to say that it's not only not bad but its actually better for you then just eating the whites alone because of the cholesterol in the egg naturally lowering your body's bad cholesterol. 

Moral of the story is just because "they" did a study doesn't mean that there findings are demonstrably true

And there are more examples of the wrong way to have a family then there are good representations so by looking at the majority family is going to give you a terrible idea of what a family is supposed to be like .

Edited January 6, 2020 by MAYA EL

[Angelite]

When I was younger, I want a child, but not a husband. It's a natural feeling. 

[Consept]

I haven't got any children and am on the fence about whether I will or not. But I think if anyone has children it has to be a completely altruistic endeavour, I know it rarely is but you have to just not expect anything back at all, there's no guarantee they will look after you, there's no guarantee they will give you the love that you seek. If you haven't got this mindset I think you'll run into problems.

Why I might consider having children is that I would want to teach them all I know and make them understand life in a completely different way. When you learn anything useful it should always be in your mind to pass it down and yes you can pass it down to anyone but I think there is something about the bond you have with someone that close to you. 

Also consider conscious people need to have kids as well otherwise kids will be brought up unconsciously ad infinitum. 

Those are really the only reasons for me, but obviously reasons against us that if you're not self actualized, at least to a decent degree you can pass down a lot of disfunctions to your child. On top of that a child could hold up your growth as you are putting a lot of energy in to them. 

So I don't know man lol

[exhale]

9 hours ago, danilofaria said:

@exhale Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough reply, it was delightful to read. Could you tell me briefly what led you to the decision of having kids? Was it just a desire you'd always had or was there something more to it? Do you think it is possible to raise kids properly, have an active life purpose and also a deep spiritual path all at the same time, or is it kind of a pick 2 kind of situation?

 

I was married to my partner at 30 years of age, and had my first child at 31 years of age, 2nd child at 33 years of age.  

When I was a teenage and young adult, I did not have strong feelings about the prospect of having children.  I was not certain that I would have children, nor was I resistant to the having children.  As a young adult, I was much more focused on developing my career and my passions/interests.

In my late twenties, I became much more interested in the idea of having children.  At that point, I had a stable (and rewarding) career.  We felt like we were strategically in a good place to bring a child into the world.  

It is hard to answer that final question, because it is unclear on how much of a commitment "active life purpose" and "deep spiritual path" would be for you, your life purpose, and your spiritual path.  As stated before, there is little doubt that bringing children into this world is a tremendous responsibility that takes a lot of time and energy.  

I can only speak from personal experience: I have a career that is aligned with my life purpose.  Though, I don't have a "deep spiritual path".  I practice personal development, and (admittedly) intermittently perform meditation.  

There is only 24 hours in a day, and something typically has to give.  

Unrelated comment: 

There are many comments about how happiness is negatively correlated with happiness.  There are also many unhappy people in the world: kids or not. 

Having children is certainly not for everyone, and it comes with its challenges and downsides. I am not trying to convince or dispute someone's perspectives on not having children.  Just sharing my feelings.  

As stated before, (I feel that) parenthood needs to be altruistic and non-transactional in nature to be healthy.  Having a solid foundation of maturity, personal development, financial security, professional satisfaction is integral when considering having children: not only to provide a nurturing environment for your kids, but also to be able to cope with the challenges and be present to strategically parent.  Also, having a loving partner is extremely helpful and important in navigating this journey! (I am very fortunate).

 

[Angelite]

12 hours ago, Angelite said:

When I was younger, I want a child, but not a husband. It's a natural feeling. 

This is when I was a little girl. It's a natural feeling. 

I simply like the idea of having "a little version of you". (read: me) 

Or my copy.

..

Pregnancy is fascinating..

But also childbirth. (Not me)

Edited January 6, 2020 by Angelite

[Angelite]

On 1/5/2020 at 9:21 PM, Angelite said:

It can be a blessing or a curse. Depending on you. Or them. 

And We have already known the preceding [generations] among you, and We have already known the later [ones to come]. 15:24 ~~

A book by Dr Muhammad Ali al-Hashimi. 

My religion is a bit full circle, this is the continuation ;

Wealth and children are [but] adornment of the worldly life. But the enduring good deeds are better to your Lord for reward and better for [one's] hope. 18:46

There are other verses which says that your child & wife may be against you in your spiritual path.

Hence, a curse or a blessing. 

(The Qurān describes both ends of the spectrum. Everything in a nutshell.) 

 

^ this applies to all generation, whether you're the parent or the child or the grandchild or the grandparent...

Can I add some more? It's about the afterlife too. Not only the life of this world (eg.70yo & die) 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Angelite

[danilofaria]

Hey @Angelite, please feel free to elaborate more. Also, what is the name of this book? 

[Angelite]

Which part should I elaborate more? 

(I found this book on someone's shelf, today)

Edited January 6, 2020 by Angelite

[Angelite]

We have this that sum up our priority beyond family & wverything else:
 

Say, "If your fathers, your children, your brothers, your spouses, your tribe, the wealth you have acquired, commerce whose stagnation you fear (a decline) , and dwellings you find pleasing are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving in His way, then wait till Allah brings His Command." And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people. 9:24

This is how it is for me.We choose God over everything else. But by following God, everything else will follow through. May or may not. (Because God's rules includes every other things.)

We have this criterion. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Angelite

[Nahm]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:00 PM, danilofaria said:

Do you think it is possible to raise kids properly, have an active life purpose and also a deep spiritual path all at the same time, or is it kind of a pick 2 kind of situation?

Yes. Of course. 

[danilofaria]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Yes. Of course. 

Could you elaborate on that? I personally have no knowledge of any human being who has done that.

[Nahm]

@danilofaria lol. Well, we’re ‘out there’. ♥️ Do you have specific questions? 

[bejapuskas]

@danilofaria  Anything you do can be taken as a deep spiritual work. If you meditate for twenty minutes but then you play video games for the rest of the day, it is something different as if you were reading, exercising or consciously socializing. The spiritual work can be separated from the rest of what you do, but the thing is, you can grow from doing literally anything, be aware of that.

[Cherylann]

The latest video where Leo makes the statement that his work will have more impact than someone having a child seems off to me.  You can not know that.  I feel so much ego there.  What if the child a person has does “something......”how can you decide what impact and measure how much impact and how can you judge that.  I don’t see that.  In Infinite mind set..... I would not feel comfortable making that statement.... on either side.  You don’t ultimately know.  I also see dogs making other impact besides fucking in creation. They create and set off change in many other ways.  Through movement.  Emotion.    Maybe not one all humans can see but on subtle levels.   Support.  Guidance. They are trainable... so are we.  Anyways.... im not trying to prove a dog or child’s worth.  I’m just spraying thought. I’m typing on my phone and will be done typing with this one cute little finger.  Thank you. 

[Cherylann]

Screw what research says.  Haha. Have them or not.  But, seeing yourself with Transcendental consciousness you can decide what makes sense for your particular human being.  How can we take care of our humanness best.  I’m working with mine and when she doesn’t know we go to mantra. Let go.  And float.  Until the answer becomes clear.  If it doesn’t... keep gently floating using feeling moment to moment as your guide.  Check in with your humanness.    

[mandyjw]

@Cherylann Importance is only what we ourselves, in the moment place on something. "Impact" in a grander scheme outside of that is relative, and ultimately a complete fiction. Maybe you already intuit this and that's why it felt off to you. 

[bejapuskas]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@danilofaria lol. Well, we’re ‘out there’. ♥️ Do you have specific questions? 

@Nahm  Is your parenting style different from how your parents were taking care of you, if they did? How, why?

[exhale]

Being your family's leader whom cultivates conscious, inspired and loving children could have very significant impact for humanity.