Im dissapointed in what i read here.

[Svartsaft]

Alot of desperatly alone people here it seems. In toxic relationships. Stalking. Needy. And they all do meditation? Follow whatever is going on here? It makes me lose hope that meditation will help me at all. 

Im in alot of pain from being completly alone. Should i meditate? Or do i seek out other people? I realy cant. Insecure. I thought meditation would make me better. 

It bathers me somewhat seeing what people write in here. The fuck? I just assume they meditate. 

[Bill W]

And you think everything would be okay if only they meditate better?

Actually your post is quite powerful. If you are in a lot of pain from being completely alone and you are wondering whether or not to seek out other people then you have answered the question yourself perhaps?

Yeh it's a risk forming relationships. I most definitely hear you on that. But if nothing changes for you, then nothing changes. 

[bejapuskas]

@Svartsaft  Relationships can be beautiful, if you the person is there for you and you love them unconditionally, just because they exist. You can touch a deeper place beyond physicality in them. Of course many people here don't meditate, otherwise they wouldn't waste their time in the threads about consciousness  

[Eph75]

@Svartsaft Ironically, while what you say is true, you too are desperately seeking answers. But there are no easy nor quick fixes. Essentially it is letting go of all you know and find something new. How do you let go of the idea that you are alone? The way that happens is not from the advice of a forum post. It takes active committment over a long period of time. Also it is not for everyone, some just don't seem to be able to let go of whatever it is that got its hold on them. 

Meditation too is not a fix all solution. 

@bejapuskas Yes, but it can also be and is often a crutch to lean on. We need to be able stand by ourselves, only then we can stand beside someone else, a partner, in a relationship, with true grace. 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Eph75

[Applegarden]

@Svartsaft How about acctually meditating for a few years and seeing what it does.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Svartsaft said:

Im in alot of pain from being completly alone. Should i meditate? Or do i seek out other people? I realy cant. Insecure. I thought meditation would make me better.

Your issue is more basic than meditation. Meditation is not going to fix your neediness because you're not at a level of development yet where you can even take meditation seriously.

The advice for you is: work on your isolation, learn to socialize, build social skills, develop friends, develop dating skills, have sex, and THEN meditation will help you reach higher levels.

Meditation is not a shortcut for avoiding learning basic survival skills like dating, making money, proper diet, etc. Meditation is a rather advanced skill for people who have already become proficient at survival and want to reach the next level.

Once you've had a bunch of sex and made a bunch of money, then you ask, "Okay, what's next?" That's where meditation starts to look appealing.

Quote

I just assume they meditate. 

Don't assume that. Most people here don't meditate or meditate so ineffectively that they might as well be watching TV.

Serious meditation is a rare skill that very few people practice.

And meditation takes years to pay off.

[Girzo]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

or meditate so ineffectively that they might as well be watching TV

I plead guilty to these accusations. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Girzo

[Ananta]

@Svartsaft Think of ways to be around others where you won't feel like you don't belong, such as join a bowling league, yoga class, painting class, etc. 

Also, and I mention this fairly often, you can go to meetup.com and join an activity. They also have them for singles. Some are free and some have a small fee. I went to a out to lunch with the ladies one, lol, at a restaurant in a place called "little Italy" that I had never been to. It was nice and there were 12 ppl to chat with...?

[Preety_India]

 

Lot of people just assume that they are meditating for therapeutic reasons. They feel better when they announce that they are meditating even when they aren't. 

Be easy on them. 

It's a lonely planet. Meditation may not necessarily cure loneliness but it's great for the soul. 

Human relationships depends not only on good behavior and integrity but also availability. You may be the best person in the world and yet not find a partner if people around you choose looking into a phone over communicating with each other. 

Loneliness, desperation and lack of guidance and or lack of family support leads people in to dark corners of toxic relationships. So don't be surprised by that. 

If these same people were to experience natural joy and real healthy wholesome relationships combined with personal healing, maybe they wouldn't be stuck in toxic relationships and wouldn't feel this needy. So judging others is a bit harsh. 

You cannot take the condition of patients as a sign of success or failure of a hospital. It only reflects an unhealthy society. And we can't have a quick fix for that. 

 

Meditation will definitely make you feel better. But if what you need is human connection, meditation can't fix that. You will need to seek love and connection.. 

 

 

[Alyosha]

It's all good vro!

[Byun Sean]

I'd say an effective approach would be to pursue building your social skills, friendships, and relationships while at the same time doing a small meditation practice on the side. Your small meditation practice can make you less reactive and better in relationships.

But I don't think meditating will solve all your problems like most people think. It's a common trap people fall into. It's just one area of personal development. Not a 'solve all your life problems' pill you take.

[Meetjoeblack]

8 hours ago, Svartsaft said:

Alot of desperatly alone people here it seems. In toxic relationships. Stalking. Needy. And they all do meditation? Follow whatever is going on here? It makes me lose hope that meditation will help me at all. 

Im in alot of pain from being completly alone. Should i meditate? Or do i seek out other people? I realy cant. Insecure. I thought meditation would make me better. 

It bathers me somewhat seeing what people write in here. The fuck? I just assume they meditate. 

Its a generation of jerk off victim culture and stupidity. Focus on you. Enjoy the decline. 

[Eph75]

 

Meditation can be a useful tool anywhere in the pyramid of basic needs, but it becomes particularly useful and maybe even required when moving past the four first stages which is more holding you back than allowing you to grow into your full potential.

Mind you that meditation can come in different forms, for example a contemplative walk paying attention to and exploring your thoughts is a form of meditation.

Because of the fact that you have basic needs that have not been covered, you need to put in the work, identify where you are stuck and find ways to get unstuck. Having issues with belongings, materialism doesn't mean that you should buy everything that you ever wanted as a solution. Having problems with needing friends doesn't necessarily mean that you have to pursue friends at all cost. Having need for a relationship or a family doesn't necessarily mean that you should sacrifice yourself for someone else in order to be accepted by a partner.

Thinking it is that easy is a trap! It would be ironical if it was that easy right? The paradox is that one you overcome your desire - which causes the suffering - it is ridiculously simple. But that's just in retrospect.

Meditation is a complement to whatever other processing you do simultaneously. Don't expect meditation alone to "fix you". Sure, it could, but it's more likely comparable with going to a psychiatrist asking him/her to fix you, lean back and not do the job. Psychiatrists don't fix people, they help people fix themselves, so there has to be intrinsic motivation to put in the effort to "fix yourself".

The really funny part with this place is that people lacking basic needs try to take shortcuts to self-actualization, by-passing and overlooking the basic needs. No can do! It's a staircase, you have to start with the first step and then slowly ascend it. There will be stagnation. There is likely to be regression. But with diligence there will be results.

Forget about instant gratification, this is a life long journey that never ends.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Eph75

[Parththakkar12]

10 hours ago, Svartsaft said:

Alot of desperatly alone people here it seems. In toxic relationships. Stalking. Needy. And they all do meditation? Follow whatever is going on here? It makes me lose hope that meditation will help me at all. 

Im in alot of pain from being completly alone. Should i meditate? Or do i seek out other people? I realy cant. Insecure. I thought meditation would make me better. 

It bathers me somewhat seeing what people write in here. The fuck? I just assume they meditate. 

You just took the words out of my soul! People here think that meditating a lot is somehow going to fix their relationship problems. What they're missing is that they have emotional needs which meditation is simply not gonna meet! Now enlightenment can be useful, i.e. it's useful to resolve conflicts with someone else when you see them as a part of yourself. However, it can also be used as a coping mechanism for unmet emotional needs.

Human beings have emotional needs and our cultures don't get this yet. We'd be living a lot more communally and inter-dependently if we got this as a species! Stage Orange really glorifies independence and fundamentally is scared of relationships, so it doesn't want to admit that we're emotionally dependent on each other as human beings.

[Eph75]

4 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Human beings have emotional needs and our cultures don't get this yet. We'd be living a lot more communally and inter-dependently if we got this as a species! Stage Orange really glorifies independence and fundamentally is scared of relationships, so it doesn't want to admit that we're emotionally dependent on each other as human beings.

Although, insights changes the relationship to those very emotions and desires/needs. Where there was a need to have relationships, the need changes into the ability to choose to have relationships. The same thing goes for everything else that you might desire. You experience a separation between you and your desires, emotions and responses and actions. That very distance makes you see those things in a more objective way and their meaning completely changes.

[Parththakkar12]

9 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

Although, insights changes the relationship to those very emotions and desires/needs. Where there was a need to have relationships, the need changes into the ability to choose to have relationships. The same thing goes for everything else that you might desire. You experience a separation between you and your desires, emotions and responses and actions. That very distance makes you see those things in a more objective way and their meaning completely changes.

That's a possibility. For me (and for a lot of other ex-workaholics like me) we were led towards people and relationships by our insights! Part of the reason I keep harping on this is that it isn't common knowledge that we have emotional needs. Knowing this could mean the difference between having a lonely, neurotic, mutually exploitative relationship and having a conscious, authentic relationship!

[Eph75]

@Parththakkar12 

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Knowing this could mean the difference between having a lonely, neurotic, mutually exploitative relationship and having a conscious, authentic relationship!

 

It's all in our imagination, all made up by the mind. We don't "need" to a thing, but we can "choose" to have anything. It's the discrepancy between the need/demand for a relationship and the lack of supply of a relationship that creates that suffering. Without the need, there's room for a relationship to "happen". If it does, that's OK, if it don't that's OK.

What we previously "wanted" we might now choose not to have, for the simple reason that when the "need" goes away, it may no longer be desirable, it looses some attraction, it has no hold on you anymore.

Also consider how lack of neediness unconsciously affects our behavior, we are far more likely to be our real selves when not trying to achieve a underlying need.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Eph75

[Shin]

Meditation will make you more conscious, but that's all it will do.

You still need to solve the situations you need to solve.

It's unlikely you will truly solve anything if you're blind though.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Shin

[Parththakkar12]

39 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@Parththakkar12 

 

It's all in our imagination, all made up by the mind. We don't "need" to a thing, but we can "choose" to have anything. It's the discrepancy between the need/demand for a relationship and the lack of supply of a relationship that creates that suffering. Without the need, there's room for a relationship to "happen". If it does, that's OK, if it don't that's OK.

What we previously "wanted" we might now choose not to have, for the simple reason that when the "need" goes away, it may no longer be desirable, it looses some attraction, it has no hold on you anymore.

Also consider how lack of neediness unconsciously affects our behavior, we are far more likely to be our real selves when not trying to achieve a underlying need.

Technically you don't even need to be physically alive, i.e. you don't need food! It's all in your mind, physically dying is no problem cuz death is the best thing that could happen to you anyways! It's okay to physically die, heck everyone dies!! Death is an illusion so the whole survival thing is irrational anyways. 'Needs' are an illusion from absolute perspective, so it really is all in your mind! I personally have tapped into experiences where I saw that eating food was a way of avoiding an emotional state of starvation/deprivation and that if I sat with it long enough, either I'd be dead or I'd not need food anymore.

However from a human perspective, physical AND emotional needs are a reality. Feel free to test out being alone the rest of your life for yourself! Feel free to starve yourself for physical touch for a decade. I challenge you to overcome the suffering that causes you only by meditating/doing self-enquiry!

Edited January 3, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Eph75]

@Parththakkar12 While dying is OK, i.e. not a thing to fear, I don't have any rush in leaving this world  I will enjoy my moments until that time has come.

That's where practicality differ, dying is not practical in this bodily existence. Altered psychological/emotional perspectives are very much practical for reducing suffering and enhancing enjoyment whilst spending time in this bodily existence.

I just enjoy a continuously increasing sober perspective of my own illusion, trying to absorb right now.

18 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Feel free to test out being alone the rest of your life for yourself!

The paradigm shift isn't towards being alone. The shift is from desire to not desire - with the optional having. Our actual needs are less than we think. Our desires are enormous. When we can look past our desires, our needs may - and most often will - show up already fulfilled.

The difficulty is to let go and open up to that shift.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Eph75