How to deal with people lower on the spiral dynamics?

[TheEnigma]

So it's one thing to be a green or a yellow on spiral dynamics. But the world will still have all kinds of people still in stage blue, red or orange. Then they will try to project what they think is right on everyone else. I have friends in stage blue and I am in stage green or yellow. And they're beginning to try to force me and tell me that my ways are "wrong," and that I "must believe in the one Jesus Christ as his personal saviour or I will go to hell!" There is just no way for me to communicate with them because it'd be easy to me to point out all the flaws in their behaviour. But since I'm higher up in the pillar, I would know better than to do that. There is no point in me telling them that it's their ego and own selective love that's causing their own suffering because they simply won't see it that way. So how should I handle people in stage blue? I was once there, and the obvious answer is that I have to love them or practice self love. But how? Love to them is not viewed the same way as a higher up in the pillar would.

[TheAlchemist]

Radical Love is loving them despite all what you said. A very big part in embodying yellow is to be able to understand people on different stages without getting triggered by them. Understand where they're coming from and realize that if you were in the same exact position they're in, you would think exactly like they're thinking. 

If I'm being honest I got the vibe that you somehow think you're better than them because you see yourself as "higher up" the spiral. That's a major mistake. You are not any better than them if you have more "developed" values. They can't help thinking the way they do and when you fully realize that you can have nothing but compassion for them. And this is not the pity kind of compassion, but true compassion where you accept them the way they are right now and don't require them to change for you to accept them. So maybe this is something to consider.

[Commodent]

 

[Eph75]

Depends on what you are set out to achieve. If your calling is to raise consciousness everywhere, then you can switch into "social cameleon mode" and talk to he/she/them from their "spiral POV" in a way that they can absorb AND challenges/touches them so that they can get developmental growth - i.e. be a spiral wizard. 

If you get triggered by that situation - or - if they get triggered by your approach, then you got personal growth to engage with twist and turn all you want, we always... 

- all of us AND always -

...have personal developmental challenges to grab by the balls (or tits). That's the beauty of bobbing around in "the reality". Fun stuff. Live, teach, learn. 

Also, leave judgement out of the picture - IT'S A TRAP. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Eph75

[Michael569]

On 01/01/2020 at 9:27 PM, TheEnigma said:

There is no point in me telling them that it's their ego and own selective love that's causing their own suffering because they simply won't see it that way.

There you go. I believe that not everyone is meant to climb the spiral and that for many people it is just way too late or they are way too far out there. In the end we all need to shape our own path. You will know when the person is open to move up and they will gladly accept your advice, most of the other cases are waste of time and energy as cruel as it sounds. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Michael569

[Eph75]

Just appreciate how incredibly complex the circumstances - causes and effects, the coming from's, the life events, the going to's - are that are needed in order to trigger awakening into such a consciousness that is required in order to allow people to let go of what they know and to allow themselves to become something else, something more complex. 

We can't demand that from anyone. If we manange to achieve such a transformation in anyone, that is a divine achivement in itself 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Eph75

[Stakres]

Alternative perspective: Consider burning the whole model. Write "spiral dynamics" on a piece of paper and burn it. Forget about this whole thing and simplify your life. It's just a model. You've build a maze for yourself and complicated it.

[Eph75]

2 minutes ago, Stakres said:

Alternative perspective: Consider burning the whole model. Write "spiral dynamics" on a piece of paper and burn it. Forget about this whole thing and simplify your life. It's just a model. You've build a maze for yourself and complicated it.

True.. and false 

[AncestorOfAisle6]

By becoming a Spiral Wizard. 

[Stakres]

@Eph75 It seems that a lot of people have built a mental maze for themselves and over-complicated everything. The path is simple and can be explained in 5 minutes. You don't even need any models. Models can help, but clearly in this case they just cause more unnecessary confusion

Edited January 4, 2020 by Stakres
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[Eph75]

@Stakres Yes. People get themselves stuck. Life is complicated - yet so trivially simple  Damnedest thing. 

Complicated until you "get it". 

Childishly simple once you've gotten it - whatever that "it" is. 

Models are useful before you get "it" - they  help you navigate forward. 

Models are useful to verify that you've "gotten it" - you might just have deceived yourself, that's what the ego does - and it does it WELL. 

BUT you can get there without models, sure no problem. But not all of us. 

What do you do when there are no more models to lean on. We continue to find your way forward. That's what we do 

Having someone help you navigate "the chaos" is a beautiful thing ? which is what I understand @TheEnigma is trying to do. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Eph75

[Dan502]

Communicating with people whose minds are heavily occupied is like crossing a busy city street. You can try and stop the cars or complain about it if you want but nine times out of ten, you're best off standing there for a while, paying attention and keeping your eye out for a gap in the trafic.

[Elham]

Observe, understand and love them. They are people who have not been provided with the path to grow. And if they were, they are not capable to grow. So don't try to go to war with them. Just understand their situation and love them.

[Arcangelo]

How to deal with people lower on the spiral dynamics? > Go down to their level.

If they start with the jesus fan club thing you can tell them that you already found jesus and that he lives in your heart.

[supremeyingyang]

On 1/1/2020 at 10:27 PM, TheEnigma said:

There is no point in me telling them that it's their ego and own selective love that's causing their own suffering because they simply won't see it that way. So how should I handle people in stage blue? I was once there, and the obvious answer is that I have to love them or practice self love.

That and that:

12 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

If I'm being honest I got the vibe that you somehow think you're better than them because you see yourself as "higher up" the spiral. That's a major mistake. You are not any better than them if you have more "developed" values. They can't help thinking the way they do and when you fully realize that you can have nothing but compassion for them.

is the essence of healthy Yellow and early Turquoise.

 

On 1/1/2020 at 10:27 PM, TheEnigma said:

There is just no way for me to communicate with them because it'd be easy to me to point out all the flaws in their behaviour.

The opposite is true. There is a point to talk to them, you answer reciprocal. They are kind and friendly, you are kind of friendly. BUT! They try to force their believes on you, you stay friendly and may tell them that you disagree. If they continue to push, you answer with the same force. Or you go with the flow, because you can't argue with ignorance. Akido Communication Style.
Normally will this not be an issue, because that are glimpses of ignorance. If you wait until they become back to consciousness, everything will work out smoothly - Without any further manipulation on your part. Just wait until it's over and you'll see how it'll get better over the years with you relation to certain individuals.
With the default verbal aggressive ones it's  sometimes a big mistake to be to patient, because they take it a weakness... But double check if it is someone like that... ussually they have a reputation for being rude. But pleeeease do not be default aggressive to people you expect to be in blue or lower    I was certainly at that point to be verbal passive aggressive to lower stage people and - guss what - it caused tremendous suffering on my part.. This is the whole 'woke people' in green against ignorance fight you see in the media..

 

58 minutes ago, Elham said:

Observe, understand and love them. They are people who have not been provided with the path to grow. And if they were, they are not capable to grow. So don't try to go to war with them. Just understand their situation and love them.

That is so right! But do not let them compromise your own values.

 

12 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Also, leave judgement out of the picture - IT'S A TRAP. 

Well written! That is the hardest part.

 

11 hours ago, AncestorOfAisle6 said:

By becoming a Spiral Wizard. 

Yeah. Spiral Dynamics becomes counterproductive for us to get to higher stages, but it can be a key to raise lower stages.

11 hours ago, Eph75 said:

What do you do when there are no more models to lean on.

If one is so high he or she can take on the mission to make a new model. Haha. Well, at some point will models not be very useful any more. But we are faaaaar from that.

11 hours ago, Leonora said:

I don't believe anyone who is lacking in patience and compassion and empathy is anywhere near on the higher levels on any scale. (Or in social wisdom)

Mhh, is the absence of empathy, patience and compassion a indicator for lower stages or is it a different line of developement?

Edited January 5, 2020 by supremeyingyang

[mandyjw]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:27 PM, TheEnigma said:

So how should I handle people in stage blue? I was once there, and the obvious answer is that I have to love them or practice self love. But how? Love to them is not viewed the same way as a higher up in the pillar would.

Let go of your thoughts about them, let go of any negative judgments but look for things you honestly appreciate instead. It's not much different from meditation of mindfulness practice. Catch the negative thought, let it go, notice that having a neutral or positive thought feels a lot better. Within a couple years the difference is astounding, not only in how you see them but how you feel when you interact with them. It's never anything but an exchange of love. You reflect the best in them back at them through your eyes and then that brings out that more in actuality. It's a kind of alchemy. 

[supremeyingyang]

 

1 hour ago, Leonora said:

@supremeyingyang

I'd say those characteristics are necessary but not sufficient conditions for someone to be 'enlightened'

and that those values of compassion and empathy ( honesty, sincerity)  are more important than 'high consciousness' 

 

Yes, in the sense that this brings more balance and peace to the World:)

 

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

You reflect the best in them back at them through your eyes and then that brings out that more in actuality. It's a kind of alchemy. 

I like that!

 

 

[Matt8800]

On 1/1/2020 at 1:27 PM, TheEnigma said:

So it's one thing to be a green or a yellow on spiral dynamics. But the world will still have all kinds of people still in stage blue, red or orange. Then they will try to project what they think is right on everyone else. I have friends in stage blue and I am in stage green or yellow. And they're beginning to try to force me and tell me that my ways are "wrong," and that I "must believe in the one Jesus Christ as his personal saviour or I will go to hell!" There is just no way for me to communicate with them because it'd be easy to me to point out all the flaws in their behaviour. But since I'm higher up in the pillar, I would know better than to do that. There is no point in me telling them that it's their ego and own selective love that's causing their own suffering because they simply won't see it that way. So how should I handle people in stage blue? I was once there, and the obvious answer is that I have to love them or practice self love. But how? Love to them is not viewed the same way as a higher up in the pillar would.

@TheEnigma If a 5 year old told you that you wont get any presents because you dont believe in Santa, would you feel the need to debate the issue?

Treat others through the filter of love and kindness. No words will dislodge their delusion. Sometimes love is the absence of words. 

Everything else is over-thinking.

[TheEnigma]

On 1/4/2020 at 4:19 PM, TheAlchemist said:

Radical Love is loving them despite all what you said. A very big part in embodying yellow is to be able to understand people on different stages without getting triggered by them. Understand where they're coming from and realize that if you were in the same exact position they're in, you would think exactly like they're thinking. 

If I'm being honest I got the vibe that you somehow think you're better than them because you see yourself as "higher up" the spiral. That's a major mistake. You are not any better than them if you have more "developed" values. They can't help thinking the way they do and when you fully realize that you can have nothing but compassion for them. And this is not the pity kind of compassion, but true compassion where you accept them the way they are right now and don't require them to change for you to accept them. So maybe this is something to consider.

But even if I love them, it would have to be at their spirial or they won't interpret my love as love. Love to whom? If it's in their perspective then it will work against some of the ways that a higher up on the pillar will love.  And secondly they themselves are thinking the same thing as me. They'll be like "I love you, but you will go to hell!"

[TheEnigma]

23 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

How to deal with people lower on the spiral dynamics? > Go down to their level.

If they start with the jesus fan club thing you can tell them that you already found jesus and that he lives in your heart.

"If they start with the jesus fan club thing you can tell them that you already found jesus and that he lives in your heart." It's not going to work!