Leo's Work Is Becoming Dangerous

[Bridge to Infinity]

Actualized.org, as useful as it is for some people it is becoming a problem for many others. 

People begin to take the actualized content on faith, creating a belief out of it which is the danger because you become insane.

Story:

Recently I've talked to someone who has social anxiety, unmeet survival needs, and therefore depression. This person is an active follower of actualized.org and is totally entertained by the idea of actualized.org. Not only does actualized.org content stimulate his brain and promises some escape out of his situation but it also makes him feel like he somehow knows things that others don't, which as we all know is very ego-inflating and with the addition of the forum he feels a sense of belonging as well. What he really needs is to meet the needs that are on Maslow's hierarchy of needs diagram.

BOOM! actualized.org has become the ultimate crutch for his ego. 

He is pretty much pedaling in water (not getting anywhere) but in this case, his taking on beliefs of insanity is making him go backwards. beliefs like, YOU ARENT REAL! EVERYTHING YOU SEE AROUND YOU IS AN ILLUSION! SCIENCE IS FLAWED! THE WORLD IS IGNORANT! YOU KNOW MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE! and the list goes on...

Conclusion: 

Actualized.org needs to be more transparent with the fact that the content can do more harm than good for some people. 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Bridge to Infinity

[RawJudah]

Go watch Leo's recent video about the dangers of spiritual work. He clears this up there. It's basically a video that we should all watch so we can figure out if this path is for us or not...

If spiritual work isn't for you then stop watching and do something different. Spirituality isn't all sunshine and lollipops...

 

[exhale]

I believe your assessment is apt.  The cliché quote is "a little bit of information is a dangerous thing".  

My impression is that Leo teaches and lives benevolently.  When someone puts out 100's of hours of progressive content, there is inevitably going to be something to criticize--fairly or not.  I think the difference between Leo and some other spiritual gurus is the blatant and "matter of fact" nature that Leo communicates with.  My understanding  is the other gurus speak in more metaphors and guide their students towards "the truth".  The result is that "these students" have dedicated themselves to the craft, and develop emotionally and mature with time.  Then, when they do "get it", they are not overwhelmed and can still function in the "real world".

One problem that Leo faces is that he communicates his message as if the average listener has average IQ and average mental stability.  Clearly, this is not the case, and can be dangerous when put in the wrong hands.  To be fair, there is some merit to the concept that people need to go into pain and darkness to grow.  Though, this means that some people grow out of the darkness, and some people don't.  

For a metaphor, a swimming pool (nonduality) is a safe space for a seasoned swimmer.  For an infant or young child when no swimming experience or skills, it would be very dangerous. Was Leo's role as being the guy that installed the swimming pool (and has no responsibility to its use), or is he the lifeguard on duty? Opinions may vary.  

I cringe when I read some of the posts on this forum of people with clearly lower IQ, immaturity, mental instability and substance abuse problems flirting with psychedelics and deep spiritual exploration.  Even if "it" is the truth, they easily lose site that they are still living in the matrix. 

 

[28 cm unbuffed]

Your friend is on a stage in his life, where he developed a spiritual ego.

Nothing really matters, materialist paradigm is wrong and evil, society is wrong - telling yourself everything, just not to act, not to do something productive with your life, not to move your ass and get yourself out there. 

It's a stage and it's a very tricky one - I've been there. I knew this term, I understood how it works, yet, I was still watching videos all day, not taking any action, mentally masturbating.

To actually reach a point, where you are somehow a blank slate, you cleared your karma is a very hard thing to do. Only when you'll reach ground zero, you will understand how much more work is there to do and how little you really knew about yourself, society and self-development. 

[Bill W]

I am not unsympathetic to the suffering. I don't want anyone to suffer on here but come on man. If you are going to say actualized org is even partially to blame I would argue 100% that is false and that it is 100% to do with the person themselves. You just can't blame an internet website for the suffering, not even blame it 1%. 

It's obviously just triggering an issue that is already there. The person either can continue using the forum or not. The forum is not dangerous and neither is Leo. You would have to shut down the whole internet to get the risk down for your friend.

I'm just trying to do you a favour with this post honestly. Don't waste time looking to pass the blame onto Leo or this forum. It just distracts from dealing with the real problem.

Blame is a strong word perhaps. Even attributing a cause for your friends issues to this forum is a big stretch. I really believe that. We all, me included, get so committed to looking outside ourselves to solve an inner problem. It's crazy  but we love to keep doing it. Mostly out of habit I think. 

[Meditationdude]

@Bridge to Infinity in almost every single video Leo warns us of the dangers in one way or another. 
 

Your argument can be made for any piece of content. I could argue that watching a commercial is dangerous for my mental health. 
 

If actualized.org is dangerous than we are all FUCKED. 
 

That being said, the forum is a breading ground for devils and dark knighters. If anything keep your friend away from this forum.  But again that’s any forum anywhere. 

People are just fucked up and we are all trying to improve ourselves. To say that Leo is hurting people is a perfect example of someone not understanding spirituality and specifically Leo’s content. You can’t understand bc you’re not conscious enough to understand.

[Danioover9000]

3 hours ago, Bridge to Infinity said:

Actualized.org, as useful as it is for some people it is becoming a problem for many others. 

People begin to take the actualized content on faith, creating a belief out of it which is the danger because you become insane.

Story:

Recently I've talked to someone who has social anxiety, unmeet survival needs, and therefore depression. This person is an active follower of actualized.org and is totally entertained by the idea of actualized.org. Not only does actualized.org content stimulate his brain and promises some escape out of his situation but it also makes him feel like he somehow knows things that others don't, which as we all know is very ego-inflating and with the addition of the forum he feels a sense of belonging as well. What he really needs is to meet the needs that are on Maslow's hierarchy of needs diagram.

BOOM! actualized.org has become the ultimate crutch for his ego. 

He is pretty much pedaling in water (not getting anywhere) but in this case, his taking on beliefs of insanity is making him go backwards. beliefs like, YOU ARENT REAL! EVERYTHING YOU SEE AROUND YOU IS AN ILLUSION! SCIENCE IS FLAWED! THE WORLD IS IGNORANT! YOU KNOW MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE! and the list goes on...

Conclusion: 

Actualized.org needs to be more transparent with the fact that the content can do more harm than good for the vast majority of people. 

 

1

   I would tell that friend to probably take a break, and just focus on more basic stuff.

[Consept]

The thing with content like this is that it depends on the receivers current level of consciousness. For example a knife is a great tool for cooking etc but in the wrong hands its a weapon used to inflict pain, its not the knifes fault either way. 

That being said Leo isn't an inanimate object so there is some responsibility on him to be aware of these situations happening which I believe he is and he does do disclaimers, but regardless some people with fall through cracks or be influenced negatively by his content. For me the net return makes it worth it in that he helps a lot more people than get hurt and ultimately that's what it comes down to, that's why we still have knives and they're not banned. 

I do agree with criticisms from others in that Leo speaks as if speaking from absolute truth, other gurus are trying to gently nudge you in the direction and if you can't understand it you're just not ready, whereas with Leo there's a sense that you're wrong and you need to take in what he's saying. I don't think this is the best way to go about and can lead to people blindly following an ideology. This is similar to  people like Jordan Peterson and Ben shapiro who speaks in such a definite way that you either are against them or a die hard devotee. Obviously he's not as bad as that esp not content wise but it's just a manner of the way this content is spoken that can create this strong opinion. So just something to be aware of. 

[Danioover9000]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

The thing with content like this is that it depends on the receivers current level of consciousness. For example a knife is a great tool for cooking etc but in the wrong hands its a weapon used to inflict pain, its not the knifes fault either way. 

That being said Leo isn't an inanimate object so there is some responsibility on him to be aware of these situations happening which I believe he is and he does do disclaimers, but regardless some people with fall through cracks or be influenced negatively by his content. For me the net return makes it worth it in that he helps a lot more people than get hurt and ultimately that's what it comes down to, that's why we still have knives and they're not banned. 

I do agree with criticisms from others in that Leo speaks as if speaking from absolute truth, other gurus are trying to gently nudge you in the direction and if you can't understand it you're just not ready, whereas with Leo there's a sense that you're wrong and you need to take in what he's saying. I don't think this is the best way to go about and can lead to people blindly following an ideology. This is similar to  people like Jordan Peterson and Ben shapiro who speaks in such a definite way that you either are against them or a die hard devotee. Obviously he's not as bad as that esp not content wise but it's just a manner of the way this content is spoken that can create this strong opinion. So just something to be aware of. 

Basically, don't shoot the messenger, and any disagreements are with personality and presentation.  

[Bridge to Infinity]

@Bill W very true

[Javfly33]

I can subscribe to the story of your friend, I think I am more or less the same case but in a less serious case. I don´t think Leo it´s responsible for the attitude of your friend, but definetely I think you hit a lot of very good and accurate points in your post.

[Annoynymous]

@Bridge to Infinity sorry to hear about the person's condition you described although i don't agree with your conclusion.

Leo in his videos said several times that not to lost in the content, just look at what these are pointing towards. He had warned us on numerous occasion about turning actualized.org into some sort of dogma and belief system.

One of the primary teachings of self development is that a person has to take one hundred percent responsibility for himself. If a person is not aware of the potential danger of his mind's ability to turn things into something dangerous for himself then no amount of "good" content can save him.

You are making  a mistake by thinking that somehow this channel is responsible for that person's present condition. It is the person who is unconsciously digging a trap for himself, against which almost all actualized.org's content talks about. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Bill W]

One other thing that could be factored in here is that it's my experience that the mods do a pretty good job helping posters make sense of things. Especially if someone seems very lost and is struggling with Leo's concepts. That's what I've seen anyway. It's not like people are just ignored when they are struggling. 

There is also peer support available here. I see that happening a lot.

Also, you can't even really argue the mods are just parroting Leo or are blindly loyal to him. Anna for example is upfront that she doesn't watch much of his content. 

I might be way off track here but my money is on most users here have either had great suffering before or are currently suffering now. 

Sometimes it can feel you are the only one not getting it or that everyone else is doing well but that's not unnecessarily the case. 

With Leo and his talking in absolutes as if it's all established fact, that does piss me off but I choose to simply not believe most of his assertions but I treat some of his self help stuff like gold because that's what I am working on. 

Do you think if Leo was in Walmart and two people walked in with AK47s and started killing everyone he is going to be all relaxed about it and just accept that he is God and he created everything and that there is a big illusion going on? Or if he quickly shoves some psychedelics up his arse it will all be okay?

This forum is not going to go out of it's way to cater for our individual vulnerabilities. That's just the way it is. Take the good and leave the bad. 

 

[StarStruck]

Taoïsts say that nothing is good or bad. It depends on the person really. Perhaps for some people this forum is bad and they need to focus on other things. Majority of people don’t fall in this category, in my opinion. 

[Nivsch]

@Bridge to Infinity you shouldn't go deep in spirituality if you don't take in account maslows hierarchy of needs or Spiral dynamics. Healthy development is a balance between the warm individual colors with the cold collective colors. Spirituality is not a solo journey.

Is spirituality doesn't make him to be "melted" into the flow with other people and rather makes him stuck only in his own head - then its not healthy.

Even if you are god, you are still in a human being form, which in you are not alone and have other human beings with you to make connections with. This is a basic need we all have. His anxiety has to be treated with exposure to social meetings and with psychoteraphy.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

1 hour ago, Bill W said:

One other thing that could be factored in here is that it's my experience that the mods do a pretty good job helping posters make sense of things. Especially if someone seems very lost and is struggling with Leo's concepts. That's what I've seen anyway. It's not like people are just ignored when they are struggling. 

There is also peer support available here. I see that happening a lot.

Also, you can't even really argue the mods are just parroting Leo or are blindly loyal to him. Anna for example is upfront that she doesn't watch much of his content. 

I might be way off track here but my money is on most users here have either had great suffering before or are currently suffering now. 

Sometimes it can feel you are the only one not getting it or that everyone else is doing well but that's not unnecessarily the case. 

With Leo and his talking in absolutes as if it's all established fact, that does piss me off but I choose to simply not believe most of his assertions but I treat some of his self help stuff like gold because that's what I am working on. 

Do you think if Leo was in Walmart and two people walked in with AK47s and started killing everyone he is going to be all relaxed about it and just accept that he is God and he created everything and that there is a big illusion going on? Or if he quickly shoves some psychedelics up his arse it will all be okay?

This forum is not going to go out of it's way to cater for our individual vulnerabilities. That's just the way it is. Take the good and leave the bad. 

 

   

 

53 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Bridge to Infinity you shouldn't go deep in spirituality if you don't take in account maslows hierarchy of needs or Spiral dynamics. Healthy development is a balance between the warm individual colors with the cold collective colors. Spirituality is not a solo journey.

Even if you are god, you are still in a human being form, which in you are not alone and have other human beings with you to make connections with. This is a basic need we all have. His anxiety has to be treated with exposure to social meetings and with psychoteraphy.

 

Well said.

[Danioover9000]

1 hour ago, Annoynymous said:

@Bridge to Infinity sorry to hear about the person's condition you described although i don't agree with your conclusion.

Leo in his videos said several times that not to lost in the content, just look at what these are pointing towards. He had warned us on numerous occasion about turning actualized.org into some sort of dogma and belief system.

One of the primary teachings of self development is that a person has to take one hundred percent responsibility for himself. If a person is not aware of the potential danger of his mind's ability to turn things into something dangerous for himself then no amount of "good" content can save him.

You are making  a mistake by thinking that somehow this channel is responsible for that person's present condition. It is the person who is unconsciously digging a trap for himself, against which almost all actualized.org's content talks about. 

   That's a bit tricky to say that. Leo's dangers of spiritual work video do explain that for the majority of mankind, there's either the minority that's born with the right genes or accumulated the right 'karma' from their past lives to have a stronger start for their spiritual journey. And the other minority with the wrong genes, brain chemistry or karma to still work through that makes it next to impossible to do the spiritual work.

   This is probably why, one of many other factors, that spiritual masters play coy and tell stories and metaphors to their students: to let the students develop some experience with their practices, get some mastery, and let their egos develop just enough spiritual ego, that it could tank these mystical insights and still be able to function. Bad example: you don't straight away give a child a full glass of wine, or else they get dead drunk. Instead, give a teaspoon, and over time, slowly increase the amount, until one day, the full glass does not affect them so much. This had saved my life one day when somebody drugged my punch juice at a party when I was in high school in the past, and I slipped away from that party and walked home by myself, not too heavily affected.

   Also, there are problems with the classical way of teaching spirituality, because you could waste a lot of time in one spiritual path, so being so direct with the listener, telling them straight about what's really at the end of the path, can both save that student's life if they really are not fated to do spirituality, or if they are fated to do spirituality and have experience, this 'preview' could help them prepare themselves much more and help speed them to realization compared to the classical way. So, suffering from damage onset muscle soreness might be more helpful in growing stronger than gentler exercises if you want stronger muscles. Actually, sleep and nutrition help much more in growth, but that's something else entirely!

   And yes, Leo said in one of his videos he's working on a better way of delivering his teachings, that's more compassionate, less icy and rough. Give him a break sometimes.

[Dan502]

@Bridge to Infinity do you think your friend will see this post?

[Commodent]

Hmm, I do think Leo has a certain responsibility for how his content might be affecting his viewers. With great power comes great responsibility. At the same time, I think the viewer is also responsible for how he relates to the content.

The problem is, I have never seen Leo openly admit to this responsibility. Quite the contrary, really. People in here are in general very eager to put all the responsibility on the receiver, which in a sense is a true sentiment but also denies the other side of the coin. Leo HAS a responsibility, and by denying that fact we are doing Leo and this community a huge disservice. 

[Bill W]

Well how about those who think Leo has a responsibility and/or is not deploying this responsibility, articulate what the responsible should look like? How should the responsibility manifest itself to the eyes or ears because we either read his content and/or watch it.

This way we could take responsibility as an abstract idea and lay down how it would present itself on the front line.

Basically what does Leo have to do for someone to think "yep, he has met his responsibility". 

Might even help Leo to see it in writing what people are thinking.