Sadhguru's stance in CAA and NRC. India's 'discriminatory' act.

[Derek White]

I think this is very interesting. I respect his opinion, but it is so wrong to say 'illiterate university students went crazy'.

The UN, Nobel laureate Ramakrishnan, and many other 'literate' people have criticized the act. university students are not illiterate. There are detention camps in India and the govt hasn't provided any proper guidelines on how to prove citizenship (actually it has stated the ration 'aadhar' cards, birth certificate, or voter cards are not enough). This has actually been tried in Assam (state) many years ago and failed, that's why that state is seeing many protests.  

The main problem protesters have is poor people don't have any documents to meet the extensive citizenship requirements that govt will set. They don't want genuine citizens to go to these camps, which would just be Muslims cause they are the ones which are excluded and therefore have to prove their citizenship. There is fear cause the ruling party has a history of Islamophobia, blocking internet, and its actions in Kashmir. 

One thing I've noticed about India is that no matter how many fascist things the goct. does, blocks the internet, messes up Kashmir or how many politicians say hate speech against Muslims, somehow 'the left' and 'liberals' always get the heat. Also be respectful in the replies please.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Derek White

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, because I share many of the same sentiments as Derek does. A couple of months ago when the current trouble in Kashmir kicked up and Sadhguru spoke out on that, you said he intuivitely understood Spiral Dynamics because he put the blame at the lack of a unified Indian identity, not the current ruling party, which seems fair enough.

However, again with these recent protests, he seems to be deflecting from criticising the government directly and instead criticising misinformation about the current citizenship bill, but to me - and many others - it can't help but feel like there actually is a sinister toxic Blue ethnonationalist underpinning to this bill that explicitly doesn't include Muslims under its protection. Like, I'm trying to understand the POV Sadhguru is coming from, but he seems way too quick to dismiss criticisms of the policies of the BJP and it almost sounds like he's peddling their propaganda at times. I know he's trying the best he can to create a unified Indian identity based on respect and dialogue and he doesn't want to muddy the waters, but when people's lives are at stake with such a reactionary government in power, it genuinely feels like he's unsympathetic to the plight of the people who are being negatively affected. Go look on the YouTube comments on any of his videos with a vaguely political leaning, and it's just an endless stream of people using his words to push reactionary bullshit blaming the INC / liberals / Marxists / etc. for the sufferings that the BJP has caused. He seems too blase with his words.

Am I missing anything here?

Edited December 31, 2019 by Apparition of Jack

[Derek White]

@Apparition of Jack Yea, Sadhguru himself said he has influence in the government in a recent interview so maybe that's why he is not criticizing it. I mean, the current Prime Minister, Modi, went to inaugurate his Adiyogi statue. Sadhguru is in the education committee, provides guidance on agricultural issues and so much more we probably don't know. 

There is also this thing about a united Hindu identity. Before, the Hindus were divided among caste lines when it came to elections and parties did little to solve that. So now, since 2014 you have the current ruling party which has sort of united the Hindus. This is like a stage blue party uniting other stage blue parties (and maybe purple/red smaller parties) under a larger identity, 'Hindu', as opposed to caste identities. Idk how this is happening on the ground though. Basically I think India is going from caste -> religion. So in a twisted way the ruling party is 'uniting' Indians. Hopefully we can go religion -> nationality -> humanity fast, some people are lagging behind.

But yea, you can't ignore the fascistic nature of BJP, I mean, all they had to do was write 'persecuted religions' or 'religious minorities' instead of mentioning a select few and all the drama would be avoided. It's also worrying cause this sets a precedence for future laws on religious ground and possibly laws that link citizenship to religion. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Derek White

[Spiral_Wizardry_Fan]

@Derek White Your comments make a lot of sense, and when I was reading the thoughts that you articulated, I felt as if I am reading my mind. I am originally from India although I currently work & stay in the USA. 

I do think that the BJP's vision might be to help India evolve towards a firm stage Orange after integrating Blue values & that this ongoing drama is probably what they consider as a necessary for that evolution. It is very dangerous & interesting at the same time. I was in India for my holiday & I must say that the environment is kind of crazy really with so many people having all sorts of contradictory opinions. 

It gets really tricky when you consider that the population is so large & the wealthy/influential people have really different POVs. I think Sadhguru understands this and is being diplomatic about the topic. I'm sure all of this is extremely low consciousness stuff for him & he's probably just trying to help the population get over it.

I'm gonna switch gears here a bit to give you some idea of where I'm coming from.

So let's say we assume that all of this is happening for a reason & that this conflict is necessary at this point of time in India's history to-be, in order to achieve nationalism and get over the caste barrier once & for all even from villages, where the caste system is still predominantly active. Meanwhile, people like me who grew up in big cities in India have already become more individualistic and have a lot of stage orange values. I've moved to the USA on a work visa legally (not IT or coding so please don't judge me.. lol), and I'm at a tricky phase in my life where I'm trying to be more world centric & transcend to spiral dynamics stage Green. Now when I look at this & try to express my opinions, I criticize the politics of all this & get really weird responses from fellow Indians. 

The worst part is that I get asked if I am pro-CAA or anti-CAA. My response has become, "It's complicated and a quick answer will definitely be the wrong answer." What I really mean is that majority of the society is not at a level of consciousness that is required to understand why this might be happening. Maybe it will all make sense to the world 50 years later.

[Derek White]

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan Firstly, thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. 

2 hours ago, Spiral_Wizardry_Fan said:

I do think that the BJP's vision might be to help India evolve towards a firm stage Orange after integrating Blue values & that this ongoing drama is probably what they consider as a necessary for that evolution.

Well, I don't quite agree. I think BJP is trying to spread its religion and not nationalism or patriotism, except in a religious way. Many of its members are stage red/blue in places like UP. It openly supports Godse, the guy who killed Gandhi, and disrespects icons people loved. IMO it is really stage red appealing to blue folk, cause blue means you have integrity, all their leaders openly lie and there is so much corruption. They have no ideology or set of values, they just want power, in truth. Just like Trump who has aspects of red is attractive to blue folk but with steroids. I think your assumption a bit over the top here. Plus the eco. is down because of these guys.

2 hours ago, Spiral_Wizardry_Fan said:

I think Sadhguru understands this and is being diplomatic about the topic. I'm sure all of this is extremely low consciousness stuff for him & he's probably just trying to help the population get over it.

I mean, there is no way of knowing this for sure. As far as I know he shouldn't have said that, so many smart people are protesting, he is using a straw-man. He is wrong and hypocritical many times. 

Lastly, Idk whether the above mentioned theory is true. It might just be that it's just a religious conservative backlash to secularism. It might be both, a backlash and a sort of unification. The congress DID do many things to help the poor and was a liberal secular party at least in demeanor. There is no way of confirming any of the caste unification thing, I was just guessing, I don't actually know. It might be the opposite cause BJP does support manusmriti and orthodox Hindu ideas. All I know is they're flirting with extremism, I don't want a genocide or riots. 

[Leo Gura]

I am not well enough informed on this issue to give an opinion.

Indian politics is not my jam. If you study the principles of Conscious Politics as I laid them out in my 4 part series and also Spiral Dynamics, that should allow you to make sense of most political issues by yourself.

Of course you also need accurate facts about the on-the-ground situation. Which I don't have in this case.

Generally speaking I know that Modi is Blue and pushing a Blue cultural agenda. But India is so under-developed that I would be less critical of such things than I would in America. America should know better. India, not yet.

Realistically, oppression of minorities and even genocide in India is par for the course. They are not collectively developed yet to transcend that. They must learn the hard way, by causing great harm to themselves and facing the ugliness of their selfish actions.

[Parththakkar12]

@Leo Gura Makes sense. There's aspects of Stage Blue that India hasn't gotten over yet like caste-system problems, cohesive positions on national security, problems with Pakistan, religious dogmatism, arranged marriages, etc. Then there's gonna be Stage Orange which will entail real industrial development and raising of the standard of living, which is not good currently! After that happens, we can maybe think about being libertarian/liberal and care about each other. 

India has a lot of people and will plod along slowly for the time being!

[Leo Gura]

India simply lacks basic high-quality governmental infrastructure to sustain peace between all those tribes: court systems, roads, uncorrupted police, bridges, toilets, parks, meat inspections, etc. All of that must be built up before Stage Green can emerge in a significant way.

There cannot be Stage Green if 200 million people are still wiping their ass with their bare hands like they did 5,000 years ago.

The function of government is to solve such logistical challenges. By solving such challenges egos are pacified and there can be talk of higher consciousness values. Otherwise people behave like animals.

[Harikrishnan]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

There cannot be Stage Green if 200 million people are still wiping their ass with their bare hands like they did 5,000 years ago.

 

We use water you use paper whats the difference ?

Edited January 6, 2020 by Harikrishnan

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura I agree with everything but did you hear Sadhguru said? He's said, "illiterate youth in universities went wild." There are two Nobel laureates speaking against what's happening and many 'literate' people all over the world. That was such an ignorant comment. I feel like Sadhguru is supporting the Nazis and has no understanding or respect for people who disagree with him. Didn't expect this from him. Disappointed. 

[Harikrishnan]

Just now, Derek White said:

@Leo Gura I agree with everything but did you hear Sadhguru said? He's said, "illiterate youth in universities went wild." There are two Nobel laureates speaking against what's happening and many 'literate' people all over the world. That was such an ignorant comment. I feel like Sadhguru is supporting the Nazis and has no understanding or respect for people who disagree with him. Didn't expect this from him. Disappointed. 

I saw this video last week and from what i remember He called illiterate youth after saying youth are guided by people with vested interest. 

 

[Derek White]

There are just so many contradictions with him. I don't think he is completely transparent.

• Sadhguru: "Don't believe anything I say. Belief is BS."
• Also Sadhguru: "By the way, yogis can raise the dead and a do bunch of other cool stuff. Don't believe though, even though you're gullible people"

 

• Sadhguru: "Psychedelics have no spiritual significance." 
• Also Sadhguru: "Cobra Venom gives me something greater than life. Nine-poisons mixed together can enlighten you."

 

• Sadhguru: "I would never ask anyone to vote for a political party. That would be killing democracy." 
• Also Sadhguru: "I have influence in the ruling party, invited their top members to inaugurate my statues, never criticized them, and support them whenever they need me. I also criticize any opposition to conservatism."

 

• Sadhguru: "Religion to responsibility."
• Also Sadhguru: Singing praises to Hindu gods. "I am a slave to Shiva." proceeds to do all the Hindu rituals. 

 

• Sadhguru: "I don't identify with any place or culture."
• Also Sadhguru: Has never actually criticized any Indian religion or culture. Has never talked about spirituality in the west although he talks about it in other places in the east all the time. Also criticizes west all the time.

I think he's purposely controversial and not transparent. His teaching are also not very clear like Leo's, he just wants people to take his program, he's not interested in teaching through talking or explaining.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Derek White

[Derek White]

@Harikrishnan Lol Can't you see, only one with vested interests in Sadhguru here.

[Harikrishnan]

14 minutes ago, Derek White said:

@Harikrishnan Lol Can't you see, only one with vested interests in Sadhguru here.

?

[Thewritersunion]

You do realize 1% of India actually pays their taxes?

[Harikrishnan]

1 hour ago, Thewritersunion said:

You do realize 1% of India actually pays their taxes?

No everybody pay taxes. Every thing we uses have tax except salt and few other things 

[Leo Gura]

@Derek White Don't expect enlightened people to automatically have good political understanding. These are separate issues. An enlightened boomer can have shitty outdated politics. In fact, I would bet on it.

Enlightened people can still be closedminded to things. They can still cling to false beliefs about the relative world. And they certainly still have biases of which they are not aware.

[Annoynymous]

10 hours ago, Derek White said:

Also Sadhguru: "I have influence in the ruling party, invited their top members to inaugurate my statues, never criticized them, and support them whenever they need me. I also criticize any opposition to conservatism."

@Derek White Did sadhguru tell these?

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura Unfortunately that’s true ?

@Annoynymous He did say he has influence and it’s pretty clear he cooperates with them and they help spread his foundation, obviously it’s not a direct quote. Everyone who follows his content knows which party he is the closest to.

I mean, he is in various committees  like education, agriculture; advices the government in agriculture and various other issues, in turn they bring his yoga program to people in the army and various other government employees, promote it and much more that we don’t know. It’s obvious he has vested interests, other parties might not be this kind to him.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Derek White

[Derek White]

@Annoynymous Do you know he had a twitter poll asking if people support the act and then his organization deleted it when the majority of replies where ‘no’ (Sadhguru supports the act). And then he says he’s not political ?. There are enough winks and nudges for the faithful to know which way to swing.