This Is The Problem With Yang

[Leo Gura]

He is not as progressive as he seems. This is what the Yang Gang doesn't understand -- doesn't want to understand.

[Derek White]

Isn't that why the Yang Gang supports him, cause he's not too progressive?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Derek White said:

Isn't that why the Yang Gang supports him, cause he's not too progressive?

In truth, yes, that's a good insight. But they like to pretend like he is the most progressive candidate out there. For example they will tout how much he is ahead of Bernie.

Of course what they don't realize is that they support Yang not for his policies but for his style and resonance with their Spiral level, which is roughly midway between Orange and Green.

Green is a deep stage. There is a big difference between mild Green and deep Green.

[Alyosha]

Leo do you ever think about leaving American society and its politics? Because this crosses my mind often. It all seems so pointless sometimes.

[LordFall]

Isn't it a case of economics? That universal health care will be cheaper to implement than medicare for all? I don't see why else he'd back down from it. 

[Bno]

Yang is antiestablishment but not necessarily progressive. I think UBI would work well on top of a federal jobs guarantee. Too bad they were making it seem in one of the debates that you can only have one or the other. You can have both.

[tenta]

Yang isn't flat out wrong, he is saying he wants to have his own version of it, but still it's just more centrism and compromise and this is why Bernie winning would be better

[Annoynymous]

Looks like the presenter of TYT likes yang's personality more this his healthcare policy.

He seemed to me like a populist, appealing to their needs while maintaining the same old status quo policy.

A centrist in disguise of a progressive. It can mislead many people.

Disappointed  with Yang.

[Annoynymous]

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

His Universal Basic Income isn't the radical, far reaching proposal that it's made to look like. It was first proposed by right wing Thinkers such as Milton Friedman, as a way to cut Social Services. Also supported by current Millionaires Such as Elon Musk, Barack Obama, and Mark Zuccerberg.

Universal Basic Income advocates want to give everyone $1k a month. - your boss will use this as an excuse to cut your salary. - your landlord will use this as an excuse to raise your rent. - your congressmen will use this as an excuse to slash benefits and lower minimum wage.

The plan will cost three trillion, almost the entire federal budget, including social security and medicare. Every benefit that aids the poor will have to go, or your taxes will have to double. The poorest people who need the most help will end up worse off.

Every year Americans pay half a trillion in rent. Why not start with universal free public housing? Because it harms wealthy property owners. UBI advocates want a future where the rich remain in charge forever and the poor get the scraps.

 

@Husseinisdoingfine i think this is an excellent analysis. I do not think giving 1k per month is gonna improve the situation. It can result into inflation and i doubt its feasibility.

How about free medicare? How about free housing and free education? These can be some good and realistic goal to achieve. But i don't think Yang is in for those.  

[Bno]

5 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Husseinisdoingfine i think this is an excellent analysis. I do not think giving 1k per month is gonna improve the situation. It can result into inflation and i doubt its feasibility.

How about free medicare? How about free housing and free education? These can be some good and realistic goal to achieve. But i don't think Yang is in for those.  

He's not in it for those things, unfortunately. He's for a public option but pretends to be for single payer by pretending to be for M4A. 

His UBI could be supplemented on top of those public programs you mentioned though. Do you still think UBI will lead to inflation on top of these programs and on top of federal jobs guarentee?

[RichardY]

If a UBI taxes the underlying economic value i.e "The Farm" (But, not it's infrastructural assets, example quality of land & community provided utilities.) . Through a land value tax, Well and good. The environment can only support so many people....

If it taxes economic activity i.e the produce of the farm, total disaster.

Edited December 31, 2019 by RichardY

[Annoynymous]

1 hour ago, Bno said:

@Bno @Bno

His UBI could be supplemented on top of those public programs you mentioned though. Do you still think UBI will lead to inflation on top of these programs and on top of federal jobs guarentee?

@Bno i think that yes, UBI will cause inflation if it is given in the form of money. But if it is given as a service,  it won't. Federal govt has to ensure that the citizens are getting their UBI's in form of service like housing, education etc.

[Bno]

@Annoynymous What about having both services and money? As long as the the amount of money doesn't exceed productive capacity and real resources, inflation won't occur. With more money in our pockets, we have more to spend and flow it back into the economy.

[Hatfort]

The universal basic income seems very advanced to me, in fact, it's probably too soon for our society to digest it, for that reason I don't think is the best policy for a candidate to present as his signature. I like it though, I think we as people and our economy would flourish with it. Jobs would still make us earn more money than what the basic income covers and people are not as lazy as the right thinks, we tend to find things to do that fulfill us, sometimes to earn more money, sometimes for other reasons, it would depend on each individual anyway.

But I don't understand how he can be so conservative about medicare for all. It's so obvious healthcare is a basic human right, meaning should be accessible for all, and there are so many countries that have already implemented it.

[Annoynymous]

19 minutes ago, Bno said:

@Annoynymous What about having both services and money? As long as the the amount of money doesn't exceed productive capacity and real resources, inflation won't occur. With more money in our pockets, we have more to spend and flow it back into the economy.

Only if they don't make it as an excuse to cut you salaries or raising your house rent and amount of your college debt.

[Leo Gura]

It's a bit odd that Yang argues that we are not yet ready for Medicare For Fall while pushing UBI. Right now we have a wider concensus for Medicare For All than UBI. At least 50% of the public is asking for Medicare For All. Not many are asking for UBI.

[Bno]

39 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

Only if they don't make it as an excuse to cut you salaries or raising your house rent and amount of your college debt.

Yup

[Progress]

@Bno UBI at the very least is an extremely great alternative against federal jobs guarantee. A federal jobs guarantee would ensure workers producing unnecessary services. We can already see from our current government what a federal jobs guarantee would be like. Look no further than your local dmv or other government administrative job. These people one are providing work that could potentially be easily automated, done for cheaper and on top of that since their job is guaranteed, they might not be the best fit. Alternatively UBI would provide a net against economic hardships while a person gets back into a job place properly decided by supply and demand. If they choose not too, they could potentially start their own business or somehow manage to live on $1000 a month. UBI in this case doesn't create unnecessary work(and cost taxpayers) meanwhile providing the individual with the economic freedom to proceed accordingly. 

[Progress]

@Husseinisdoingfine I understand your critiques and they are valid to an extent however I just wanted to elaborate on the situation. If UBI was implemented, employers will not slash pay at least for a couple of years, however other factors effect this as well. UBI would often decrease the supply of certain skilled workers as the people in it for the money consider retirement or work they prefer meanwhile we will see a mass decrease in college education as people are less pressed to attain white collar work. Minimum wage will most likely not decrease, there is enough public pressure to halt that and inflation is enough reason. Employees that get payed well for simple jobs such as Trader Joes would not get a decrease as these companies pay well out of principal. Moreover is that despite exponential inflation, employers have not increased salaries relative to inflation so UBI would balance this trend out. My final point regarding this would also be outsourcing and automation that is happening so the point of employers decreasing pay (unlikely) pails in comparison to the current reality.

As for rent prices, yes they may increase but not nearly as drastically as you say. The reason why rent cost so much is usually democratic controlled governments in cities halt building permits in order to preserve the housing prices of homeowners (which I believe is an unethical practice). This is contributing to rent prices much much more than UBI could ever. Furthermore most Americans are homeowner and therefore not renters in competition. UBI may actually increase homeownership as an extra $12k is extraordinarily helpful for mortgages. 

As for the cost of UBI, I'd estimate 33% of the UBI would trickle right back up as people buy goods and spend money. Furthermore as money spent amongst consumers can be used multiple times, this would create an economic boom in its own right as people have money to spend. The cost of UBI could be further decreased by eliminating programs that become redundant because of it such as food stamps and social security (This would have to be done gradually). Although not stated by Yang, did you know that passive income's maximum tax rate is 20% compared to a maximum tax rate of 33% for people who work. What is passive income? Its the money from stocks and dividends. Essentially the wealthiest people benefit from this lower tax rate while the poor who don't have the money for stocks don't. 

If you ask any poor person if $1000/month or food stamps, social security and medicare; I bet they'd all pick $1000/month. As a broke college student, $1000/month would help a lot more than the rest combined. That being said I am for medicare for all and hope that Andrew Yang comes up with a more concrete policy.

[Leo Gura]

UBI is a good idea, but it is only the beginning of other much needed reform. UBI by itself will not fix the fundamental corruption at the heart of the system. The systemic corruption is worse than anyone understands or knows how to fix. The corruption is at an existential level.