Leo more advanced than any available teachings?

[Lento]

The teachings are only advanced as the student is. At some point, you will not need a teacher anymore because you will become your own teacher.

Leo is not a fool, he knows how to market his goods. And what are his goods but the variety of his experiences? Ask yourself: what value can mystical experiences add to my life?

[Scholar]

You guys are missing the central point of my inquiry.

 

Leo is claiming that what he discovered no other teacher talks about or that he is understanding it far deeper than other teachers.

Yet, in information Leo is relaying to us I have not discovered a single thing that was not yet talked about.

 

I need either evidence of something specific Leo is communicating that no other teacher is communicating, and it has to be able to be formulated into an idea, or I need an explanation for how Leo can know his depth of understanding is greater if what he says cannot be communicated which would apply to all other teachers aswell and therefore would mean Leo could not possibly know the depth of other teachers who from an outside perspective look the same at his.

If the greater depth understanding of Leo cannot be formulated into a specific idea that is different in appearance from ideas that currently exist, it could not be possible for Leo to tell whether or not his understanding is deeper than any other understanding, because it would not be possible to differentiate the depth of understanding on the basis of the appearance of the ideas.

 

This thread it not about Leo being more advanced or not, or how effective his way of communicating is. I am not interested in that. I am interested in how Leo could possibly make such a claim if his teachings are identical in appearence with that of other teachings.

 

We therefore must establish A) A clear difference in the teachings that can be observed by an outsider (like something Leo is specifically talking about that most other teachings are not talking about) or B) How it could be possible for Leo to gage how deep another teaching is if the presence of further depth does not manifest in the form of the teachings themselves.

[Lento]

@Scholar

Leo can't teach a donkey.

(Read my other post above).

Edited December 31, 2019 by Lento

[Scholar]

20 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Scholar

Leo can't teach a donkey.

(Read my other post above).

What you wrote has nothing to do with what I am investigating.

If you imply that Leo is not mentioning the aspects he has discovered which lack in other teachings, then I do not see how it is rational to simply trust Leo that he has discovered anything that is deeper than other teachings. It might be valid from Leo's perspective, but from ours it would be cultlike to simply trust Leo in his words until he does not clearly communicate these aspects.

If they are incommunicable, my point still stands as to how Leo could possibly know he has reached deeper levels than other teachers if these deeper levels cannot be communicated whatsoever.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Scholar I don’t think he’s reached deeper levels of embodiment and integration. 
 

Go read Ramana and Nisgardatta for the deepest levels possible.

however in terms of insights who knows, he takes a lot of psychedelics which not many people have done before, but at the end of the day it’s about 24/7 level of awareness. 

[Lento]

@Scholar

I think maybe my point wasn't clear enough; There's nothing to be taught because there's nothing to know in the first place. Awakenings don't happen on the level of the mind, that's why we can't communicate them. It would be more appropriate to say that they happen at the level of the heart. Awakenings are more about opening up and releasing of emotional blockages. I think it would help clarify things for you if you could deeply investigate epistemology. It's not that the teachings are incommunicable, it's that they don't actually exist at all. The teachings/practices are simply games for making the mind submit to the present moment. After some point (enlightenment/surrendering/etc...), none will be required. And the mystical experiences cannot tell you more than a night-time dream can. Although you can still dream that you have the ultimate knowledge, nothing wrong with that either.

The donkey analogy was in response to your question about whether Leo has better ways to communicate things. Well, clearly, it depends on the recipient/student and whether they're ready or not. I am saying these words and I'm aware that you actually getting it is out of my hands.

Jed McKenna talks about this topic. See: "Spiritual Enlightenment : The Damnedest Thing" book.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Lento

[DoubleYou]

What's more advanced than to just sit in silence and smile?

[Scholar]

8 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Scholar

I think maybe my point wasn't clear enough; There's nothing to be taught because there's nothing to know in the first place. Awakenings don't happen on the level of the mind, that's why we can't communicate them. It would be more appropriate to say that they happen at the level of the heart. Awakenings are more about opening up and releasing of emotional blockages. I think it would help clarify things for you if you could deeply investigate epistemology. It's not that the teachings are incommunicable, it's that they don't actually exist at all. The teachings/practices are simply games for making the mind submit to the present moment. After some point (enlightenment/surrendering/etc...), none will be required. And the mystical experiences cannot tell you more than a night-time dream can. Although you can still dream that you have the ultimate knowledge, nothing wrong with that either.

The donkey analogy was in response to your question about whether Leo has better ways to communicate things. Well, clearly, it depends on the recipient/student and whether they're ready or not.

Jed McKenna talks about this topic. See: "Spiritual Enlightenment : The Damnedest Thing" book.

No, that was not my question at all. I tried clarifying it twice now, I will not do so again. My question had nothing to do with Leo's way of teaching or how effective it is.

[Lento]

11 minutes ago, Scholar said:

No, that was not my question at all. I tried clarifying it twice now, I will not do so again. My question had nothing to do with Leo's way of teaching or how effective it is.

Okay, cool.

I already told you that it's a marketing strategy. He knows nothing more than a child knows, other than being able to trick people (maybe even himself) into thinking that he knows. That's my view.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Lento

[MAYA EL]

4 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@MAYA EL @Jed Vassallo I’d like to put a counter argument here.

I get the teachings are there, but for a lot of people they won’t help that much, there’s so many out there who’ve been seeking for 40-50+ years and still don’t get it.

I would also argue once you awaken to The Self, and realise all are you, you want nothing more than to help people in any way you can, and what greater way than to help them end their suffering? 
 

while I also agree a limited amount of people can make videos and write books etc, I feel a more efficient method exists in working 1-1 with people on their unique awakening process and then also using transmissions as part of this teaching.

that is what worked for me, and without the 1-1 intervention I’d still be a hardcore seeker for sure, stuck in my mind.

I understand but remember that wanting to help people is just social programming

[Lento]

3 hours ago, MAYA EL said:

wanting to help people is just social programming

Not necessarily.

Maybe you don't mean that, maybe the words you used make it seem so. But, in this specific case (the exact wording), the paradigm from which your conclusion is coming, is social programming. That's attachment to detachment, which is a very advanced stage, yet, still not the ultimate one.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Lento

[MAYA EL]

7 hours ago, Lento said:

Not necessarily.

Maybe you don't mean that, maybe the words you used make it seem so. But, in this specific case (the exact wording), the paradigm from which your conclusion is coming, is social programming. That's attachment to detachment, which is a very advanced stage, yet, still not the ultimate one.

Dont make a concept salad here because if I do that too then we will get nowhere.  Example being  your programming that shows you that there is programming that taught you that there are levels to awakening and that even taught you the concept called awakening are all still just social programming you were programmed with.... see how pointless that will be? .

It's like the guru virson of rock paper scissors .

My point was that wanting to help is a social construct because it can be looked at as a bad thing because  it makes a person dependent on other people therefore making them weak and by weakening them they are more likely to die (if looked at from a Spartan/ tribal/ animalistic view point) 

[Lento]

@MAYA EL

Perhaps you missed my point. What I said wasn't a concept salad for me. It's something I'm deeply aware of.

Quote

My point was that wanting to help is a social construct because it can be looked at as a bad thing because  it makes a person dependent on other people therefore making them weak and by weakening them they are more likely to die (if looked at from a Spartan/ tribal/ animalistic view point) 

Good point. But still, it doesn't make the desire to help others a social programming/construct. These are two different things; good vs. bad is something different from authentic vs. constructed. Of course, both dualities are relative, but they're not identical. You can genuinely desire helping others and actually help them without weakening them. And you can desire not to help others and actually not help them while at the same time make them weak. The relativity here doesn't necessarily make the desire any less authentic. There are authentic desires. The paradigm which I sensed you were speaking from demonises desire and assumes that it's the cause of suffering. While that's definitely true to some extent, it isn't absolutely true.

You can desire without suffering. That's why enlightenment is called liberation.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Lento

[Inliytened1]

15 hours ago, Lento said:

Okay, cool.

I already told you that it's a marketing strategy. He knows nothing more than a child knows, other than being able to trick people (maybe even himself) into thinking that he knows. That's my view.

This is hogwash, otherwise you wouldn't be listening to his videos every week and commenting on how great they were..

1 hour ago, Lento said:

 

You can desire without suffering. That's why enlightenment is called liberation.

Agreed there.  Desire comes from the heart.  It is passion.  It comes from love.  Many awakened find their life purpose is to help awaken others.   This, from the Absolute perspective, stems from Absolute Love.  This is because in dividing itself, God ultimately wishes to reunite all of its parts in total unity.   God has no one but itself to share itself with, and that is its ultimate gift to itself.

 

[Lento]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is hogwash, otherwise you wouldn't be listening to his videos every weak and commenting on how great they were..

Well, maybe he's just disconnected from reality because he lives in solitude away from actual human connection. That's another possibility.

Knowledge is merely a tool for the devil. I am a devil.

[LfcCharlie4]

@MAYA EL bro, all I want to do is come on here and help people, whether that’s programming or not. It’s all I’m interested in, as all I’m really helping is myself ! 

[Jonac]

@DoubleYou my brother?

[MAYA EL]

3 hours ago, Lento said:

@MAYA EL

Perhaps you missed my point. What I said wasn't a concept salad for me. It's something I'm deeply aware of.

Good point. But still, it doesn't make the desire to help others a social programming/construct. These are two different things; good vs. bad is something different from authentic vs. constructed. Of course, both dualities are relative, but they're not identical. You can genuinely desire helping others and actually help them without weakening them. And you can desire not to help others and actually not help them while at the same time make them weak. The relativity here doesn't necessarily make the desire any less authentic. There are authentic desires. The paradigm which I sensed you were speaking from demonises desire and assumes that it's the cause of suffering. While that's definitely true to some extent, it isn't absolutely true.

You can desire without suffering. That's why enlightenment is called liberation.

It sounds to me like You are under the impression that you have some  core beliefs that are demonstrable rather they be obtained through enlightenment or a part of your being and have always been there 

Unless I'm mis interpreting what you are saying?.

A devastating thing I learned during one of my many awakening moments was I proved to myself that even your conscience and your deepest core understandings can be wrong and most of the time they are as I proved to myself one day and the realization that some things that I would literally died for and know in your knower CAN be wrong because your "you" in you is not infallible and no one will believe that until they experience it for themselves  .

Yes there is always an exception to the rule in an organic existence and so there are some very slim rare specific occasions where you can help somebody and it not necessarily be harming them however those cannot be determined in the moment because no one can see into the future to see what type of future outcomes now exists because you helped to that person and I believe we were talking about mainstream situations of things like being a guru or spiritual leader of some form and in that particular aspect of life especially it is not fundamentally good for a person to have a guru telling them what is and what is not.

[MAYA EL]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@MAYA EL bro, all I want to do is come on here and help people, whether that’s programming or not. It’s all I’m interested in, as all I’m really helping is myself ! 

Ok and that's a bad mentality to have because you know it might not be bad yet to you don't care as long as you get what you want and this is the perfect watering ground for very bad things to happen as justification does its thing. Remember Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor 

[VeganAwake]

There are no individuals sharing information with other individuals... that's an illusion.

THIS is all that's happening and it's perfect and complete. There is no one that is in control of anything. ❤