Ego

[purerogue]

So I see there is allot of confusion about what does loosing attachment to ego means, good and bad, hate , not hate, Judge, not judge.

I know it has been said before, but as days pass, things get buried and people get confused because of form how people replay , rightfully so as it would be chore to put definition each time.

Never the least seeing sentences, "you should not judge ", "there is no good , or bad", you should be, you should not be, brings you nowhere closer.

To understand why, you have to understand 3  bases of no attachment.

 

*More effort, or effort in general only strengthens your ego, it is nothing more then your ego saying to itself I will not do this , I will be like that. 

*Doing only what you want is still effort*

*Will be attached , will not be attached is effort , so you are still running after your tail. 

 

See the truth of attachment in you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by purerogue

[Eph75]

With that it sounds like working on ones attachments would be a bad thing, as it is still attachment to another "idea". 

That may be so but also the foundation of both developmental and spiritual growth.

Having a temporary attachment fueled by the insight that you have strong negative side-effect producing attachments and working on them, getting you to a point where you are more detached and live a more peaceful life without uneccesary suffering is still a positive thing for anyone that still need to operate in the reality that we all are inside. 

You can of course do nothing, accept all, continue to suffer and continue to cause suffering in others if you want, letting the ego run the show. But for most that is causing unhappy lives, even if we imagine it being just as it should be. 

From a tier 2 perspective in spiral dynamics all of those things make sense, the "whys" to what you mention are different. That does not mean that you can not detach from the emotional connection to, e.g. this is wrong and this is right, if you are in a tier 1 stage. But it is likely you do so with a dogma, replacing the one idea with another fueled by a new truth that produces a new "should" that you "must" live up to. When in fact you don't have to do anything - you still CAN do anything.

There are different paths leading to the same place. Different paths can be easier or more difficult for different people. A lot of people here are addressing rather "simple" problems which imply not having gotten very far on the spiritual journey. Far from everyone is interested in a spiritual journey but only looking for understanding of why a certain thing is affecting them negatively and how to overcome. Seeing this from the far-spiritual perspective can point at detachment just being another attachment. Seeing this from the pragmatic world perspective, understanding of attachment actually can save people from suffering. 

With that said it is hard to know, maybe not where people are coming from, but where they are going and what they need to hear. Depending on the latter, offering advice that is the most helpful to that very person in that very stage of developmental growth he or she is in, so that he or she can continue the journey with less suffering is all that matters. 

Disregarding from this fact is yet another way of the ego to present a more elaborate solution that the other likely will not be able to understand and less likely will help with his or her current suffering or "blocking". 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Eph75

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, purerogue said:

*More effort, or effort in general only strengthens your ego, it is nothing more then your ego saying to itself I will not do this , I will be like that. 

*Doing only what you want is still effort*

*Will be attached , will not be attached is effort , so you are still running after your tail. 

So what's your solution? It seems it's impossible to escape this trap. Whatever effort you make, it is still ego that makes that effort. If you try to make no effort, that is still an effort. So what do you do?

[Raptorsin7]

@Salvijus you do nothing

[Salvijus]

@Raptorsin7 that's my whole point. It's impossible to do nothing. If try to do nothing, that is still an instruction to be taken, that is still a doing. You just become super smart ego who says "I will not do anything now". But that is still ego who is doing nondoing.

It's the same paradox like "I want to have no desire" but that itself is the desire. So you cant escape it. Your desire not to have any desire is itself a desire. It's the same thing with "doing nothing".

Or when someone puts a camera in front of you and says "act natural" and then you put a nonchalant face expression as if now you're natural  See, same paradox., you can't act natural, it's impossible. The momemnt you try to act natural, you are being unnatural.

Lol 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

The biggest confusion with ego that I see on this forum is the belief that someone is saying you need to kill the ego. No one is saying you need to kill the ego... that's not how it works at all...❤

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by VeganAwake

[purerogue]

7 hours ago, Salvijus said:

So what's your solution? It seems it's impossible to escape this trap. Whatever effort you make, it is still ego that makes that effort. If you try to make no effort, that is still an effort. So what do you do?

To each their own, this topic was not meant to get you there, but explain what needs to happen to get there.

If I would have to give advice , doing nothing is good thing to try if you understand these principles.

[Eph75]

Yet, doing nothing will get you nowhere. You have to do something to get to a point where you realize that doing nothing could be a path.

It is like saying that you don't have to awaken because you are already "there". The one not awake does not see it, so that is not so. Quite counter-productive.

[VeganAwake]

All I recommend is meditation and turning within and asking yourself Who am I? And where does this ME reside within the body?

 

[purerogue]

1 hour ago, Eph75 said:

Yet, doing nothing will get you nowhere. You have to do something to get to a point where you realize that doing nothing could be a path.

It is like saying that you don't have to awaken because you are already "there". The one not awake does not see it, so that is not so. Quite counter-productive.

Not really, you are talking as  if you can just do nothing, every thought,sensation, emotions,action and so on  leads you into doing something, being able to do not get attached to wherever they lead will get you somewhere and either way is good practice to reinforce almost every other practice you are doing. 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by purerogue

[Eph75]

Ok, we are down to defining what we mean with "do nothing". If action changes how you relate, which leads to not getting attached, is that then doing nothing? Only if you set out to detach, is that "not doing nothing" ? If you work on your emotions, e.g. choose not to react, and that affects attachments, is that nothing as long as you are not aware that it will change the dynamics of everything.

Any action is self-biased. There is an underlying purpose. So that's not doing nothing. If you don't agree, then it is almost as if doing things without awareness of consequences, then it is "ok" but as soon as you cognition abilities can discern a positive outcome, that becomes something and it is "wrong" ? 

When I see doing nothing, then it is meditation, minimizing thought, take no actions (basically eat, shit, meditate), sit in cave or whatever. Not very practical. 

Otherwise it is just accepting what is and do no action that changes anything that you can possibly percieve. Becomes very close to living in unawareness. 

Maybe I'm just trying to misunderstand ? that is a possibility. 

In that sense, every action is an attachment to an idea. Gets into splitting hairs and very, very subjective. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Eph75

[VeganAwake]

44 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Not really, you are talking as  if you can just do nothing, every thought,sensation, emotions,action and so on  leads you into doing something, being able to do not get attached to wherever they lead will get you somewhere and either way is good practice to reinforce almost every other practice you are doing. 

 

"In today's world, the vast majority of people who are engaged in religious or spiritual practices, such as yoga, prayer, meditation, chanting, or any kind of ritual, are practising techniques which are conditioned. Which means they are just part of the ego construct. The seeking and the activity isn't the problem; thinking you have found the answer in some external form is the problem. Spirituality in its most common form is no different than pathological thinking that is going on everywhere. It is further agitation of the mind. More human doing, as opposed to human being. The ego construct wants more money, more power, more love, more of everything. Those on the so called spiritual path desires to be more spiritual, more awake, more equanimous, more peaceful, more enlightened.

Whenever there is a desire to attain something, you can be sure it is the ego construct at work. Samadhi is not about attaining or adding something more to yourself. To realize Samadhi is to learn to die before you die. Life and death are like yin and yang, an inseparable continuum endlessly unfolding with no beginning and no end. When we push away death, we also push away life. When you experience the truth directly of who you are, there is no longer any fear or life or death. We are told who we are by our society and our culture, and at the same time we are slaves to the deeper unconscious biological cravings and aversions that govern our choices. The ego construct is nothing more than the impulse to repeat. It is simply the path that energy once took, and the tendency for the energy to take that path again, whether it is negative or positive for the organism". 

- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self) Part 1

[purerogue]

20 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

"In today's world, the vast majority of people who are engaged in religious or spiritual practices, such as yoga, prayer, meditation, chanting, or any kind of ritual, are practising techniques which are conditioned. Which means they are just part of the ego construct. The seeking and the activity isn't the problem; thinking you have found the answer in some external form is the problem. Spirituality in its most common form is no different than pathological thinking that is going on everywhere. It is further agitation of the mind. More human doing, as opposed to human being. The ego construct wants more money, more power, more love, more of everything. Those on the so called spiritual path desires to be more spiritual, more awake, more equanimous, more peaceful, more enlightened.

Whenever there is a desire to attain something, you can be sure it is the ego construct at work. Samadhi is not about attaining or adding something more to yourself. To realize Samadhi is to learn to die before you die. Life and death are like yin and yang, an inseparable continuum endlessly unfolding with no beginning and no end. When we push away death, we also push away life. When you experience the truth directly of who you are, there is no longer any fear or life or death. We are told who we are by our society and our culture, and at the same time we are slaves to the deeper unconscious biological cravings and aversions that govern our choices. The ego construct is nothing more than the impulse to repeat. It is simply the path that energy once took, and the tendency for the energy to take that path again, whether it is negative or positive for the organism". 

- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self) Part 1

Fine, but the thing is that there is no right and wrong, we can go on forever into discussing what is better, what is worse, if you do not do any practice probably nothing will change in your lifetime, if you do practice,  but shut yourself from information to not lead yourself astray you can still make all the same mistakes , but have cut yourself of information that can help you see it. 

In my opinion,  do nothing is purest of forms without leading you in circles, but it requires clear vision. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by purerogue

[Leo Gura]

You shouldn't make should statements

Error... error... does... not... compute. Logic malfunction... Program self-terminate...

[VeganAwake]

10 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Fine, but the thing is that there is no right and wrong, we can go on forever into discussing what is better, what is worse, if you do not do any practice probably nothing will change in your lifetime, if you do practice,  but shut yourself from information to not lead yourself astray you can still make all the same mistakes , but have cut yourself of information that can help you see it. 

In my opinion,  do nothing is purest of forms without leading you in circles, but it requires clear vision. 

Everything is pure, everything is perfection there is no right or wrong.

Whether awakening occurs or not does not matter. Only a mind creates the need for purpose or meaning.

If you can recognize that nothing matters you will be home ❤

 

 

[purerogue]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You shouldn't make should statements

Error... error... does... not... compute. Logic malfunction... Program self-terminate...

Very logical though