"You are already whole and complete" - Is that really true?

[Nivsch]

Last month I heard couple of videos (of Leo and Aaron doughty) about how to be attractive.

I found these videos very helpful and it feels to me very right. The most attractive state is to transmit others that you are already whole and complete all by yourself, and you don't need anyone (but you just want, that this is ok).

But, my intuition tells me for a long time again and again, that this is not fully true. I feel that I really and clearly want, for example, romantic relationship.

Also I feel, that living always alone, won't make me fullfiled. Which means - I need other people to some degree.

So how it gets along with the "whole and complete" message, It feels to me there is a contradiction here.

How can I transmit to other people this attractive state, if I don't believe that this is fundamentally true?

There is some significant degree of truth in this attractive attitude, but its still limited and not completely true.

I dont know about what one feels when he becomes super developed, but it is far enough and not relevant to the near (and medium range?) future.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Nivsch

[Bill W]

How about posing the question to yourself of... what makes someone whole and complete? and then posing a second question of do I have that? 

Good topic. I had more to say but will see how this pans out a bit first.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Bill W

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Bill W said:

How about posing the question to yourself of... what makes someone whole and complete? and then posing a second question of do I have that? 

Good topic. I had more to say but will see how this pans out a bit first.

Definitely - other people in your life.

Thats what i feel.

Of course - more other things must be - authentic purpose, emotional mastery, healing yourself mentally etc.

But without other people in your life? I can't imagine fullfilment without it.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Nivsch

[Commodent]

What is it that you truly want from a romantic relationship? What does it look like viscerally? Try reliving that experience again and again, until it becomes ingrained in your daily experience. Until you no longer need another person to meet that need for you.

The best relationships do not arise from a place of dependency, but rather, from a place of abundance.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Commodent

[Bill W]

Perhaps on a positive note this motivates you to socially connect and have meaningful relationships. The other side is you might run the risk of depending on it.

"You are already whole and complete" - Is that really true?

18 months ago I'd have said the above is false for 99% of people. It would have sounded arrogant to me that someone is whole and complete.

Now I think all of us are more whole and complete than we could ever imagine. Completely whole and complete? I'm not sure on that. 

The last 18 months have taught me there is more to surrender, let go and jettison than I ever imagined and there is less to get, gain, and acquire than I ever imagined. 

Not sure if that helps you.

I think I'm trying to say that the more shit you let go, the more whole you feel. It's there! The sense of wholeness. It's just buried beneath all the crap. Crap habits. Crap thinking. Crap behaving. It's beneath the self centred part of us. 

Remove the clouds and the sun will shine. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

So how it gets along with the "whole and complete" message, It feels to me there is a contradiction here.

How can I transmit to other people this attractive state, if I don't believe that this is fundamentally true?

There is some significant degree of truth in this attractive attitude, but its still limited and not completely true.

The contradiction comes from you not being fully conscious of what you are. If you were fully conscious of what you are, you'd realize you are whole and complete. But an ego cannot ever be whole and complete by definition. So you're stuck in an existential bind until such time as you awaken and realize your true nature. But in your current state of conscious you believe you are a limited human self, so of course you will also act in a needy way which will repel others. The less conscious you are, the more needy you are, the more people don't like being around you because your selfishness is repulsive.

Detachment cannot be faked. You must actually become detached.

[MAYA EL]

@Leo Gura so I take it tou can self reproduce?  Because as far as I know the opposite sex is needed in order to not only keep the species alive but also to reach higher understanding / awakening that cannot be obtained when single and without kids. And this is a universal fundamental part of every single human beings existence . 

[remember]

@Nivsch when you arrived on the world you were already perfect, perfectly whole and complete, even though you grew for 21 years in size - and you also grew in less visible regards and when you are older you start to shrink a little bit. now you ask how can this be? how can i have been whole all the time? exactly because we are beings who are whole and we are spiraling up with open ends. if you arive at limits it is about you which of these limits you let limit yourself, by some limits you grow into character and shape through acceptance and some you grow out by going against them or overstepping them. if you find out about your limits and work on them and accept them completely as part of you, it´s not much difference than working for example on the health and appearance of your skin, although therefore people oftentimes go deeper into diet, working on it in the intestines instead of on the edges, this is part of the self-love they apply. so being aware that you are completely whole, should be the point where you realize: there are no limits, i can grow myself and am complete. this kind of growth is part of your wholeness. the moment you accept limits as limits and not as chance to grow yourself you usually stop growing or grow in aspects you might not want to grow into.

Edited December 28, 2019 by remember

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, MAYA EL said:

@Leo Gura so I take it tou can self reproduce?  Because as far as I know the opposite sex is needed in order to not only keep the species alive but also to reach higher understanding / awakening that cannot be obtained when single and without kids. And this is a universal fundamental part of every single human beings existence . 

That all depends on your definiton of "self".

The Self I am can reproduce in infinite ways without sex. But if you believe you are a human, then you're stuck. But then again, reproduction is meaningless unless you give it meaning.

For example, I can reproduce myself through words and videos because I do not limit my self to biology as you choose to do. I reproduce myself in your mind. And my reproduction will outlive your children's children.

You should understand that reproduction is a total fiction. Ask yourself why you subscribe to this fiction.

[Eph75]

Although we are not whole until we realize we can be. We can't be whole if we have attachments to desires that hold the idea that if only I had this or that, then I will be whole. 

If today you are attached to the idea that you need a relationship, that desire when not met make you feel incomplete. Addressing your attachments, among other traits of the ego that are limiting you from being what you could be, you will find yourself detaching from old beliefs that you held true. 

This goes the same for the need for social connections and belongings as much as it does to attachment tto materialism in the sense that having either of these will make you fulfilled. In fact it is the "needs", the "desires" that make you miserable - or "feeling not complete". 

The trick with this insight is that you might think that becoming detached to say materialism means that you should not own things. This is not true. In fact when you have had this awakening you see that the desire via material things have owned you, you did not own the thing. The desire or things owned you. Once you have had that insight two things can happen;

1) the thing had lost its meaning as the underlying desire has gone away, you no longer see a point in owning the thing. This can be a transition phase as well, a counter-reaction to the insight, I get it so now I do not want it. 

2) the thing holds no power over you, as the desire is gone. You are not owned by the idea that, say, a sportscar will make you happy. But you also realize that there is no problem owning a sportscar, they are cool and fun to drive. This can also be a second stage reaction after having done #1. 

The exact same thing goes for the desire of relationships, friendships, partnership, social belonging. The idea of having to fulfill the desire to have that belonging can become a fixation. Detaching from that desire completely changes the dynamics between you and the subject you had the desire for. That does not mean you can not have that relationship, it just does not hold any power over you in defining who you are. 

There is a difference between having and needing where the latter is trying to fill a gap, an underlying need. That need is your limitation(s). Understand them, process them and rid yourself of the attachments they result in - and you will wake up to already being complete/whole. Or rather, that you have been spending you life chasing desires for bizzare reasons. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Eph75

[SoonHei]

@Nivsch the hand is always part of the whole body. If you thought you were the hand, you would only have control over the hand and operate as such. Until you realized that you were the whole body, then you would only operate as the whole body. You can no longer only be a hand when you know yourself to be the whole body.

But it must be known.

Not believed. 

The hand can pretend to be the body but it can never actually be it

 

[MAYA EL]

@Leo Gura Leo I realize that you can't risk coming down to a conversational level where you may appear to have a normal thinking mind because this puts your image in danger of losing its respect and so because you cannot risk equal situational authority and you especially can't risk acknowledging not having obtained something that others have because that would be potentially life threatening to your internet image this puts any conversation with you in a serious bind because authenticity cannot be had do to said reasons above and so you are trying to deflect with a false concept of your view on life in Hope's that your answer will transcend the convictions that my statement place upon your awakening experience and l understand because I was the same way before I got married and had kids so I don't  blame you for having the mentality that you do.

 

But just remember that you cant truly imagine and understand something that you have yet to experience and go through and I don't expect you to believe me but I hope that you will become aware of the fundamental importance it has in everyones life. 

And I don't  want to go back and forth arguing about this dissecting each others replies looking for reasons to deflect because that was not my desire and it won't help ether one of us so know that I respect you and your accomplishments and I only say this do to experiencing it from both sides and sharing it with the best of intentions. 

[remember]

it all depends on the choices we make - some people find joy and fulfillment in a higher or maybe you could say different form of unification with the other gender, some people find that within the same gender, some change the partner more often and some find it in a monogamous way. understanding that there are multiple openings to the spiral and not wanting to press our own dna on how someone should love onto others by all means is probably one of the biggest limitations to overcome without and within an intimate relationship.

if we are whole within ourselfs the difference is that we don`t have to find fulfillment in the other so we don`t have to imprint, but have the choice to grow together.

Edited December 28, 2019 by remember

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, MAYA EL said:

Leo I realize that you can't risk coming down to a conversational level where you may appear to have a normal thinking mind because this puts your image in danger of losing its respect and so because you cannot risk equal situational authority and you especially can't risk acknowledging not having obtained something that others have because that would be potentially life threatening to your internet image this puts any conversation with you in a serious bind because authenticity cannot be had do to said reasons above and so you are trying to deflect with a false concept of your view on life

Lol, clever devil. Nice projecting there.

[Bill W]

You might find this of use? 

I've just started the book Shadow Dance by David Richo and I quote word for word a small extract.

"We are cursed to act out the dark and desperate scenarios of the shadow as long as we keep believing is is supposed to be killed or canceled. Like cathedrals and forests, metaphors of the psyche, we are never finished although always whole. That is wonderful news, since something complete can still be made from unfinished things. In fact, our lively energy, our life force, depends directly on our being whole but not on our becoming perfect". 

 

[mandyjw]

15 hours ago, Nivsch said:

So how it gets along with the "whole and complete" message, It feels to me there is a contradiction here.

How can I transmit to other people this attractive state, if I don't believe that this is fundamentally true?

There is some significant degree of truth in this attractive attitude, but its still limited and not completely true.

Attraction itself is a beautiful thing, that can only exist if there is some level of incompleteness. You don't want the whole world handed to you on a silver platter at birth, you'd never appreciate it and you would ironically feel as if you had been robbed of something. You want to desire, you want to long for things. When you understand this, that you want to want, it almost cancels itself out just like a positive and negative magnet and the mechanism of attraction itself. There's the wholeness, within the wanting. 

[Arcangelo]

9 hours ago, MAYA EL said:

Because as far as I know the opposite sex is needed in order to not only keep the species alive but also to reach higher understanding / awakening that cannot be obtained when single and without kids.

Oh really? How do you know this? Because I am never ever getting married and i am never ever having kids, (I am smart you know).

 

"You are already whole and complete" - Is that really true? > YES, Absolutely. Gotta have an awakening experience to confirm it though.

 

 

Arc

 

[aklacor727]

19 hours ago, Nivsch said:

How can I transmit to other people this attractive state, if I don't believe that this is fundamentally true?

@Nivsch I dont think you have to worry about it, if you've been content and happy being single and desire for a relationship to add value to your life rather than *needing* it to be happy, a neurotic need, you won't emit that subconscious neediness that repels people.  Also remember in relationships its important to be aware of and express your needs which is much different than being "needy"

In the meantime of completely realizing you are whole and complete through awakening experience, just the perspective of relationships adding value and happiness rather than being something you need to have happiness is a good way to look at it

[whoareyou]

@Leo Gura  Do you believe that the experience of reproducing and raising children could help people raise their consciousness? 

What about the value of producing conscious children for the world?

Or at this point, is it all total fiction to you, that you don't think it is necessary at all?

Edited December 28, 2019 by whoareyou

[universe]

@Nivsch

You are on the right track. Step by step see what makes you whole and happy.

I can tell you two things Ive found that dont make me happy and whole

• A relationship
• Transmitting to other people that you are whole and happy so that they find you attractive

 

If you dont feel whole, there is a need in you. This need could be anything (e.g. I need a new iphone, I need a car, I need cool friends, I need a girl, I need sex, I need money, I need attention, I need people to like me etc.). But it will ultimately boil down to 3 needs:

• Validation
• Protecion
• Control

Explore these needs in yourself. How do they feel? How do they manifest in you? Get a coach to help you transcend and release these needs. Or do it on your own if you think you do that.

If you have done that everything will become so much easier and nicer for you. Im not saying that you just have to that! Some things are just basic needs. For example food and shelter. You can be very highly developed but still get thrown off track without enough food supply. Especially in the beginning when you are still mastering your emotions it will be helpful to get those basics covered. Get some sex, human interaction, money or whatever you crave, it will help you a lot! But keep working on your needs.